SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

This isn't directed at you, but I get tired of the 'mental health' line rolled out by most gyms over the last 12 months. They really didn't give a shit about it prior to the pandemic. Most of the gyms using it during the pandemic may as well have come out with 'I don't believe in the restrictions' or 'I would like to make money'. I'd probably have a bit more respect for their honesty.

Mental health is being treated currently as an excuse to do whatever you want that is currently being inconvenienced by the restrictions. Lets hope all those businesses who are championing mental health now as a reason for opening up, are advocating for better mental health services when all of this is over.
Companies are the same, they talk about mental health during lockdown but don't understand how depressed I was going to the office 5 days a week.now I'm so much happier
 
This isn't directed at you, but I get tired of the 'mental health' line rolled out by most gyms over the last 12 months. They really didn't give a shit about it prior to the pandemic. Most of the gyms using it during the pandemic may as well have come out with 'I don't believe in the restrictions' or 'I would like to make money'. I'd probably have a bit more respect for their honesty.

Mental health is being treated currently as an excuse to do whatever you want that is currently being inconvenienced by the restrictions. Lets hope all those businesses who are championing mental health now as a reason for opening up, are advocating for better mental health services when all of this is over.
Oh yeah I agree completely, of course mental health is hugely important but I got people telling me we need to go back to normal because of apparent suicide numbers (which I am sure are really bad, but ultimately we’re at 100k+ dead now).
 
Well it depends what form of exercise you're doing. Don't need it to run but to lift any decent weights etc you do.

People rarely lift decent weights in those fancy gyms, they barely need a gym subscription in the first place. ;)
 
Shitty weather, dark nights- most people working until 5 or 6- a gym is definitely the safest and most effective place to exercise. Should never have closed imo.

They definitely should have closed. For obvious reasons.

Having said that, of all the (relatively) unnecessary indoor activities gyms would be top of my list to reopen. As they directly improve the health of the nation. I’d want outdoor sports to start long before that though. That’s what really pisses me off. Gobshites not following the advice about sharing lifts or changing rooms has ruined it for the rest of us. Outdoor amateur sports has to the least risky group activity to get going again, provided everyone follows the guidelines.
 
This isn't directed at you, but I get tired of the 'mental health' line rolled out by most gyms over the last 12 months. They really didn't give a shit about it prior to the pandemic. Most of the gyms using it during the pandemic may as well have come out with 'I don't believe in the restrictions' or 'I would like to make money'. I'd probably have a bit more respect for their honesty.

Mental health is being treated currently as an excuse to do whatever you want that is currently being inconvenienced by the restrictions. Lets hope all those businesses who are championing mental health now as a reason for opening up, are advocating for better mental health services when all of this is over.

Don't worry, I agree. There's obvious skin in the game for them to go down that narrative.

Once they open, I'd prefer reduced capacity and limited visits per week. That would at least, I think, serve to help the greatest number of people (ie not just the meatheads).
 
Excess mortality in Europe 2020
(Comparison with 2016-2019 levels)

Liechtenstein: 20,8 %
Spain: 18,9 %
Poland: 18,7 %
Slovakia: 18,5 %
Italy: 17,4 %
Belgium: 16,7 %
Czech: 16,6 %
Bulgaria: 15,1 %
Britain & N. Ireland: 15,1 %
Switzerland: 13,0 %
Malta: 12,6 %
Lithuania: 12,3 %
Holland: 11,6 %
Romania: 11,1 %
Austria: 11,1 %
Portugal: 11,0 %
Slovakia: 10,5 %
Luxembourg: 10,4 %
France: 10,4 %
Cyprus: 9,2 %
Croatia: 9,1 %
Hungary: 8,1 %
Sweden: 7,6 %
Greece: 7,5 %
Germany: 5,3 %
Estonia: 3,1 %
Finland: 2,7 %
Iceland: 1,6 %
Denmark: 1,6 %
Latvia: 0,4 %
Norway: -0,4 %

Source: Fredrik Charpentier Ljungqvist, data from Eurostat, University of Oxford och SCB.

Appears a fair bit of under-reporting even in Europe; noticeable that Belgium don’t quite stick out the same in this list.
Hopefully vaccines will see a year or two of lower than normal levels of mortality now. Fingers crossed, some good stats this week have improved my downbeat mood.

Interesting table.

What makes you believe there is an under-reporting?
 
This isn't directed at you, but I get tired of the 'mental health' line rolled out by most gyms over the last 12 months. They really didn't give a shit about it prior to the pandemic. Most of the gyms using it during the pandemic may as well have come out with 'I don't believe in the restrictions' or 'I would like to make money'. I'd probably have a bit more respect for their honesty.

Mental health is being treated currently as an excuse to do whatever you want that is currently being inconvenienced by the restrictions. Lets hope all those businesses who are championing mental health now as a reason for opening up, are advocating for better mental health services when all of this is over.

Hypocrisy is not the monopoly held by the advocates for the 'mental health' line.

Now, economic, social and mental life should matter in the public debate.
 
Interesting table.

What makes you believe there is an under-reporting?

I'd imagine because in most countries reported covid deaths are lower than excess mortality figures despite there being far fewer flu deaths this year.
 
Being stuck in the house with wife and kids 24/7, it’s a small terraced house which seems to be getting smaller
Exactly my situation with 3 kids. I'm going crazy. I can't wait until they go back to school. I love them but Jesus thier annoying.

Its boring for them though. It's not like you can take them anywhere. The park gets boring after a handful of times.
 
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Apart from not going to the gym, what is causing MH issues for some people?

I think for most people:

-A sense of helplessness
-The loss of ability to do many of the things that make us human (meeting up with family and friends, hugging and kissing them, dating etc)
-Loneliness
-A worry about the future and your job prospects or a loss of a year of your life at the minimum
-A feeling of being trapped in a house with people you may love but who are probably getting on your nerves by now
-A fear of dying
-Seeing the look of utter dread on patients' faces as I tell them of their Covid diagnosis, as they ask me if they're going to die, as we put them on the CPAP machine, as we put them to sleep and on the ventilator and as they pass away, surrounded only by strangers with masks and visors on.
-Tottenham's utterly dire form and playing style
 
Exactly my situation with 3 kids. I'm going crazy. I can't wait until they go back to school. I love them but Jesus thier annoying.
Yeah it’s hard to get a bit of mental space to yourself when the kids are messing around or when the wife is going on about something unimportant. Sometimes I envy single people just for the headspace
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-hospitals-death-long-covid-b1804704.html

Is it just me or does this kind of stuff need to be highlighted much more in briefings/the media? I still think the majority of people believe this is a mild illness unless you’re old with health problems. Going down that route early on was a massive mistake to try and keep people calm and it’s had the opposite effect imo and has caused ignorance.

I can't work out what the following means? Does it mean they got complications with existing complications or?

It found half of all the patients had at least one complication with complications, such as heart, kidney or lung problems, most common in men aged 30 and over.

They go on to say the following so I assume the heart, kidney or lung problems were pre-exisiting conditions?

Examples of ‘long covid’ symptoms included fatigue, coughing, headaches, and muscle pains but the study did not consider all symptoms.

Where is the published copy of the study?

I disagree and think it's better to not try scaring the shit out of people, and for the vast majority it absolutely is a mild illness. Let’s not forget we have 110 million confirmed cases WorldWide which is likely just the tip of the iceberg.

Widespread panic is never beneficial in my personal opinion, and how would it have helped exactly? You've locked down your fecking countries for the best part of a year after all, why would scaring the shit out of everyone make that better?
 
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https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-hospitals-death-long-covid-b1804704.html

Is it just me or does this kind of stuff need to be highlighted much more in briefings/the media? I still think the majority of people believe this is a mild illness unless you’re old with health problems. Going down that route early on was a massive mistake to try and keep people calm and it’s had the opposite effect imo and has caused ignorance.

It has welfare implications so they won't recognise the full extent of long covid. It'll continue to get downplayed and will probably have dubious studies that say people just need to get back to work.
 
Are you being deliberately obtuse or actually wondering?
Actually wondering. Even when we have a curfew the only thing that has changed for myself is dining out. I can still go out after 9 so long as I have the dog with me, I get enough exercise walking her. My lunch times are no longer boring as they were in the office and I have plenty of time to cook after work as I have no commute. Weather is getting warmer and summer is on the way. We have already booked a staycation and have that to look forward to. There is light at the end of the tunnel and I would rather look positively forward than look back in misery.
 
Actually wondering. Even when we have a curfew the only thing that has changed for myself is dining out. I can still go out after 9 so long as I have the dog with me, I get enough exercise walking her. My lunch times are no longer boring as they were in the office and I have plenty of time to cook after work as I have no commute. Weather is getting warmer and summer is on the way. We have already booked a staycation and have that to look forward to. There is light at the end of the tunnel and I would rather look positively forward than look back in misery.

Sounds nice and I'm glad you're finding something to be optimistic about.

You seem quite settled though? I think it's generally tough for people who aren't in that bracket and who are trying/hoping to move forward in life (or those who have kids as that seems like an absolute nightmare).
 
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It has welfare implications so they won't recognise the full extent of long covid. It'll continue to get downplayed and will probably have dubious studies that say people just need to get back to work.

Is probably the right answer. The UK government has opened 40 long covid clinics and I've got my GP to refer my daughter to one of these as they (GPs) still have no clue, and worryingly no interest, in what she's going through. Now I have to wait for these clinics to contact me but the news I'm reading is they don't want new referrals or are not currently taking new referrals. Back to square one. Or square feck you.

My daughter has had her swabs, blood tests and antibodies test done. Everything is normal and no sign of infection or anti bodies, IgM or IgG. I asked the GP could it be something else insidious. Again, no interest. Told me to wait until the clinic decides what it is or isn't. I'm not surprised by that response as I said months earlier I have found a few GPs (5 or more) only thinking this is all psycho-symptomatic. Even with recent official recognition they are reluctant to act by pushing within the medical community, i.e. logging these cases and symptoms in a generic database. They will sit back and wait to be guided. Until then push the problem along somewhere else.

I have seen first hand what long covid can do. My daughter was going to cruise through her A levels this year but a year of debilitation and brain fog means she will be resitting her final year, if she has recovered by then. Long covid is serious and it is still being reasonably hushed. If people found out the true effects there would be very few anti-vaxxers.
 
Companies are the same, they talk about mental health during lockdown but don't understand how depressed I was going to the office 5 days a week.now I'm so much happier

100% this

Don’t get me wrong I can’t wait for the lockdown to be over but not having to go into the fecking office every day has been absolutely amazing.
 
Is probably the right answer. The UK government has opened 40 long covid clinics and I've got my GP to refer my daughter to one of these as they (GPs) still have no clue, and worryingly no interest, in what she's going through. Now I have to wait for these clinics to contact me but the news I'm reading is they don't want new referrals or are not currently taking new referrals. Back to square one. Or square feck you.

My daughter has had her swabs, blood tests and antibodies test done. Everything is normal and no sign of infection or anti bodies, IgM or IgG. I asked the GP could it be something else insidious. Again, no interest. Told me to wait until the clinic decides what it is or isn't. I'm not surprised by that response as I said months earlier I have found a few GPs (5 or more) only thinking this is all psycho-symptomatic. Even with recent official recognition they are reluctant to act by pushing within the medical community, i.e. logging these cases and symptoms in a generic database. They will sit back and wait to be guided. Until then push the problem along somewhere else.

I have seen first hand what long covid can do. My daughter was going to cruise through her A levels this year but a year of debilitation and brain fog means she will be resitting her final year, if she has recovered by then. Long covid is serious and it is still being reasonably hushed. If people found out the true effects there would be very few anti-vaxxers.

One of my mates has it and was referred to a specialist a few weeks ago. He was told that it's some sort of delayed post-viral fatigue and that the threshold isn't immediately apparent, so can catch up with him several days after exerting energy. The longer term implication if he doesn't take time out to recover is 'chronic fatigue syndrome'. It could, apparently, take 12 months to return to normal. Really scary stuff. His employers have seemingly been brilliant though.

Ridiculous for you that they aren't taking new referrals.
 
One of my mates has it and was referred to a specialist a few weeks ago. He was told that it's some sort of delayed post-viral fatigue and that the threshold isn't immediately apparent, so can catch up with him several days after exerting energy. The longer term implication if he doesn't take time out to recover is 'chronic fatigue syndrome'. It could, apparently, take 12 months to return to normal. Really scary stuff. His employers have seemingly been brilliant though.

Ridiculous for you that they aren't taking new referrals.

It is really scary, my daughter has effectively been in bed since last March. Was your mate officially diagnosed (swab/antibodies) with having had covid previously? Apparently this affects 1 in 3 covid sufferers and it's usually youngish, healthy people though not exclusively.
 
Sounds nice and I'm glad you're finding something to be optimistic about.

You seem quite settled though? I think it's generally tough for people who aren't in that bracket and who are trying/hoping to move forward in life (or those who have kids as that seems like an absolute nightmare).
I think if you're in the UK you won't have to wait long for easing up of lockdown, we in Europe however, will probably die of old age before getting vaccinated.
 
It is really scary, my daughter has effectively been in bed since last March. Was your mate officially diagnosed (swab/antibodies) with having had covid previously? Apparently this affects 1 in 3 covid sufferers and it's usually youngish, healthy people though not exclusively.
Christ mate, has she still not recovered ? How is your wife doing, is she any better ?
 
It is really scary, my daughter has effectively been in bed since last March. Was your mate officially diagnosed (swab/antibodies) with having had covid previously? Apparently this affects 1 in 3 covid sufferers and it's usually youngish, healthy people though not exclusively.

I wish you and her all the best. I know from talking to my mate how much an official diagnosis can help ease the issues (obviously it doesn't fix them but for peace of mind etc).

He was officially diagnosed, yeah. He's 30 and relatively fit/healthy - slim, works out a lot.
 
Christ mate, has she still not recovered ? How is your wife doing, is she any better ?

She's slightly better but recovered is not the term I would use. We're trying to control her post viral inflammations (probably what it is, medical community not telling us anything) with diet and supplements. As mentioned above, the hope is recovery will come gradually as it did with SARS1 long haul sufferers.

The wife took the initiative and pushed through the pain and debilitation to recover from will power alone last year. Still has some minor GERD issues but very mild now. I don't want to push my daughter through that as she's a delicate petal and she likes being the centre of attention. Want to avoid CFS in case we push too hard.

Thanks for remembering and asking. :) But yeah, I was all ok to be herd immunised until this long covid shit hit first hand. Now I just want to be vaccinated ASAP. Thank God my mum avoided all this happening at home and has now been vaxxed.
 
She's slightly better but recovered is not the term I would use. We're trying to control her post viral inflammations (probably what it is, medical community not telling us anything) with diet and supplements. As mentioned above, the hope is recovery will come gradually as it did with SARS1 long haul sufferers.

The wife took the initiative and pushed through the pain and debilitation to recover from will power alone last year. Still has some minor GERD issues but very mild now. I don't want to push my daughter through that as she's a delicate petal and she likes being the centre of attention. Want to avoid CFS in case we push too hard.

Thanks for remembering and asking. :) But yeah, I was all ok to be herd immunised until this long covid shit hit first hand. Now I just want to be vaccinated ASAP. Thank God my mum avoided all this happening at home and has now been vaxxed.
Nice to hear about your wife and mum, hope your daughter gets through it soon, bring on the vaccine I say.