SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

Hound Dog said:
I read it, still no excuse. How it is done is to import into database immediately, with no intermediaries. Any other apps that use the data can then read from the database.

Why is it done like that?

Well, exactly because of situations such as this.
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It's really not uncommon to use CSV or XLS to feed into disparate systems though, quite the opposite. Ideally you want to properly integrate the systems but considering it's a third parties system and time limited purpose I'm not at all suprised they went that route.

I think someone posted last week that the app doesn't include the Pillar 1 results so we already knew it wasn't integrated.

They've had the time to do it even with the complexities involved but someone will have knocked it on it's head due to cost.
 
Smores said:
It's really not uncommon to use CSV or XLS to feed into disparate systems though, quite the opposite. Ideally you want to properly integrate the systems but considering it's a third parties system and time limited purpose I'm not at all suprised they went that route.

I think someone posted last week that the app doesn't include the Pillar 1 results so we already knew it wasn't integrated.

They've had the time to do it even with the complexities involved but someone will have knocked it on it's head due to cost.
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It is also not uncommon to try to open a website and get an nginx error, but it doesn't make it right. There is simply no excuse for something like this happening in an organization of that size and importance.
 
Seems to me that all the talk of restrictions on freedoms are absolute piss.

The rise in cases and the breakdown of where those cases occured seems to show quite clearly that the difference between now and the summer is schools and universities being back, coupled with an insane push to get people back into the office.

The Universities issue was utterly avoidable, but I'm not sure how you solve the school problem. I'm pretty sure that creating a mental health crisis by telling people to lock down again is going to do feck all, though.
 
jojojo said:
Greater Manchester's amended figures for the week to 2nd October. For Manchester itself, the huge leap is in the university halls of residence areas - about 55% of cases are in 18-21 year olds, mostly asymptomatic or with minimal symptoms.

The same effect is probably happening in places like Salford, where there are also high student numbers - I suspect we may see jumps there once the testing ramps up.
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This year's Freshers Flu is Covid-19.
 
RedRover said:
Agree with that completely. Heavy handed measures threaten to destroy the economy, destroy the futures of millions and kill as many, if not more than the virus. And it'll hit the poor first and hardest.

Your first point is spot on too. My local area is now in a local lockdown and it's causing chaos for a lot of businesses. The inability to plan is the worst part of it.

I personally don't think it's viable to "crush this". Clearly a three month plus lockdown was always going to, and did, massively reduce transmission. Obviously, once people start moving around again it starts to spread. I don't understand why people are surprised by this. The idea however that we can close down whole swathes of the economy for extended periods is a nonsense. There's a reason why the furlough scheme has ended - we can't afford it.

Whilst the government response to this can be rightly criticised, no country in the world has managed to unlock this. The Countries lauded at the outset are either now in difficulty, or face problems down the line in terms of the inability to open up again. Nobody has the answer.

It's not nice to admit but there is a balance that leads to an acceptable number of deaths. That's just how it is.
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This is the crux of the issue and one that I hear more and more in the community.

My mother is on the verge of suicidal. She is 65 and lives alone now. My father is 10 years dead and she used to have a lodger but thats not feasible now as it makes her nervous. Obvs with restrictions we cant visit. Too risky. She is talking now in terms of "whats the point in living"!! Stark stuff.
My best friends brother lost his job as a bar manager and he tried to commit suicide last week - directly related to a sense of hopelessness because he has severe financial problems now as well as dealing with Covid.

Locking everyone down again is going to be very very dangerous
 
McGrathsipan said:
Locking everyone down again is going to be very very dangerous
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I don't even think this is a discussion now, I think we'll see just restrictions of activity more than anything else. There needs to be some context that around March/April time the probable case numbers in the country were around 100k per day, and that is the yard stick or threshold for where they would consider it.
 
jojojo said:
Allegedly the error, that saw test results go missing from the test and trace record keeping system last week, is that it uses xls files (possibly due to a csv import step) perhaps just because they're clueless. But quite possibly because a lot of NHS trusts haven't been able to upgrade systems since Excel 2003 ruled the roost.

From a basic techie perspective, data import from multiple sources is always an issue - which is why you write database imports that crosscheck that the correct number of records gets added each time. Obviously not if you're world beaters though. Which begs the question really - have they actually written an Excel database app rather than used an actual database?

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Oh for feck sake, we truly are led by incompetent penny pinching feckwits!
Hound Dog said:
The problem is not that the tech is two decades old, the problem is that they have not used a database. Databases are critical for any data which you cannot afford to risk losing.

Remarkable that such errors are happening at such level. Any tech student could have told you what I just wrote.
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Knowing these clowns they would have gone with MS access!
 
McGrathsipan said:
This is the crux of the issue and one that I hear more and more in the community.

My mother is on the verge of suicidal. She is 65 and lives alone now. My father is 10 years dead and she used to have a lodger but thats not feasible now as it makes her nervous. Obvs with restrictions we cant visit. Too risky. She is talking now in terms of "whats the point in living"!! Stark stuff.
My best friends brother lost his job as a bar manager and he tried to commit suicide last week - directly related to a sense of hopelessness because he has severe financial problems now as well as dealing with Covid.

Locking everyone down again is going to be very very dangerous
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Very sad to hear.

I think it's easy, if you're fortunate and comfortable, with a job you can work from home, to look at the bigger picture and make bold statements about what we need to do to beat the virus. You constantly see people criticising others for wanting to enjoy a social life, but the reality is that is what makes life worth living for a lot of people, and further, those people support a whole host of people in hospitality and the supply chains that support those businesses.

The reality is that a lot of people are, probably rightly, more scared of the second order effects than of actually having the virus. Pre-corona we already had record numbers using food banks. This is a disaster.

I consider myself to be fairly left of centre in my political leanings, but I'm shocked by how many people who are clearly left wing and generally decent and well meaning, fail to recognise or accept what an economic disaster will do to the poor, working classes or those already marginalised - both current and future generations. Some even advocate closing schools, leaving another generation of the ordinary working class behind whilst those in private education have access to much better resources.

As I've said above, nobody has cracked the code. Lockdowns kick the can down the road at enormous financial and mental cost. Opening up and closing down week on week will destroy the economy. This is the reality.
 
F-Red said:
I don't even think this is a discussion now, I think we'll see just restrictions of activity more than anything else. There needs to be some context that around March/April time the probable case numbers in the country were around 100k per day, and that is the yard stick or threshold for where they would consider it.
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The problem is, that the measures in place (in my local area, at the moment) have the same effect. It's akin to a lockdown except you can go to work and out with the people you live with but nobody else. They're telling businesses they can continue to trade but the measures make it practically impossible.
 
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RedRover said:
Very sad to hear.

I think it's easy, if you're fortunate and comfortable, with a job you can work from home, to look at the bigger picture and make bold statements about what we need to do to beat the virus. You constantly see people criticising others for wanting to enjoy a social life, but the reality is that is what makes life worth living for a lot of people, and further, those people support a whole host of people in hospitality and the supply chains that support those businesses.

The reality is that a lot of people are, probably rightly, more scared of the second order effects than of actually having the virus. Pre-corona we already had record numbers using food banks. This is a disaster.

I consider myself to be fairly left of centre in my political leanings, but I'm shocked by how many people who are clearly left wing and generally decent and well meaning, fail to recognise or accept what an economic disaster will do to the poor, working classes or those already marginalised - both current and future generations. Some even advocate closing schools, leaving another generation of the ordinary working class behind whilst those in private education have access to much better resources.

As I've said above, nobody has cracked the code. Lockdowns kick the can down the road at enormous financial and mental cost. Opening up and closing down week on week will destroy the economy. This is the reality.
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Very good post. I think this perspective has been missing from much of the public debate, as the economic concerns have mostly been pushed by people/politicians who we know don't have the general public's best interest at heart. But that doesn't mean that the threat to people's livelihoods and therefore other aspects of their health isn't at significant risk.
 
MTF said:
Very good post. I think this perspective has been missing from much of the public debate, as the economic concerns have mostly been pushed by people/politicians who we know don't have the general public's best interest at heart. But that doesn't mean that the threat to people's livelihoods and therefore other aspects of their health isn't at significant risk.
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Whether those pushing the agenda mean well or not is, in my opinion, largely irrelevant. A functioning economy is what allows us to put food on the table and that applies from the top to the bottom.

There are millions of people in the UK in low paying jobs who without those jobs, won't be able to put food on the table or keep a roof over their heads and it's largely those jobs that are at risk. The idea that there is a limitless amount of money to subsidise the economy long term is a nonsense. A young person working in such a job and dependent on that income to live (or worse, support a family) is, I suspect, much more frightened of losing their job than catching the virus given the relative risk. I would certainly feel that way.

I'm lucky. I can work from home, in comfort. My life, currently is inconvenienced and no more. It's much worse for a lot of others, suffering with mental health or fear of being homeless, having to get into debt to pay their way.

Generally, there's a reason why countries with a broken economy have a low life expectancy. The balance needs to be found.
 
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We are at over 2k cases and over 50 deaths now for the first time since pandemic started. Our health system is dangerously close to getting overwhelmed, covid beds almost gone and large amount of people do not believe virus exists and won’t wear masks. They’ve now enforced obligatory mask wearing in all yellow and red zones with high prevalence of covid and now people in those areas are trying to organize protests to walk the streets without masks and go into stores without masks and try to pull them off ‘slaves’ faces. It’s getting ridiculous.
 
Sarni said:
We are at over 2k cases and over 50 deaths now for the first time since pandemic started. Our health system is dangerously close to getting overwhelmed, covid beds almost gone and large amount of people do not believe virus exists and won’t wear masks. They’ve now enforced obligatory mask wearing in all yellow and red zones with high prevalence of covid and now people in those areas are trying to organize protests to walk the streets without masks and go into stores without masks and try to pull them off ‘slaves’ faces. It’s getting ridiculous.
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I honestly dont know how people deny it exists. We can debate all day long about how dangerous it is to people but feck me it cant be debated that it actually exists
 
New restrictions in Belgium

The close contacts are limited to a maximum of three. For those you don't have to respect the five-foot rule.

Private meetings: up to four people are welcome under your roof.

For bars, tables are limited to four people, unless you live under the same roof. Do you meet with more people? Then you sit at different tables. The cafes must close at 11pm. Nothing will change for restaurants.

Non-organized gatherings: maximum four people. This does not apply to guided walks or cultural events.
 
The UK government has made an initial order of 1m antibody tests from the UK-RTC, the consortium that was set up to produce these.
This is just an initial order and the plan is (hopefully anyway!) that everyone gets one eventually.
They are finger prick blood tests that you can do at home, doesn't need a lab analysis, its a pregnancy style test and is amazingly accurate for a non-lab test.

Some in NI may have been involved in the 2,000 people trial for this.

Good news for everyone.
 
RedRover said:
Whether those pushing the agenda mean well or not is, in my opinion, largely irrelevant. A functioning economy is what allows us to put food on the table and that applies from the top to the bottom.

There are millions of people in the UK in low paying jobs who without those jobs, won't be able to put food on the table or keep a roof over their heads and it's largely those jobs that are at risk. The idea that there is a limitless amount of money to subsidise the economy long term is a nonsense. A young person working in such a job and dependent on that income to live (or worse, support a family) is, I suspect, much more frightened of losing their job than catching the virus given the relative risk. I would certainly feel that way.

I'm lucky. I can work from home, in comfort. My life, currently is inconvenienced and no more. It's much worse for a lot of others, suffering with mental health or fear of being homeless, having to get into debt to pay their way.

Generally, there's a reason why countries with a broken economy have a low life expectancy. The balance needs to be found.
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The implication that they aren't taking the economy into account, or looking for the right balance, is clearly false. Leo Varadkar's interview and decision yesterday is the most explicit example of your fallacy. On the one hand he is putting in restrictions that you believe are more dangerous than the virus, and on the other hand he's rejecting the official medical advice in the most serious health crisis he's faced.

That's the reality. There is no good choice so criticising something for being a bad choice is misleading at best. The balancing act they're playing will always lead to bad outcomes.
 
My mate which I play footie with has been hospitalized after testing positive for covid as virus has got to his lungs (30y old, skinny lad). Brings it home really.
 
Brwned said:
The implication that they aren't taking the economy into account, or looking for the right balance, is clearly false. Leo Varadkar's interview and decision yesterday is the most explicit example of your fallacy. On the one hand he is putting in restrictions that you believe are more dangerous than the virus, and on the other hand he's rejecting the official medical advice in the most serious health crisis he's faced.

That's the reality. There is no good choice so criticising something for being a bad choice is misleading at best. The balancing act they're playing will always lead to bad outcomes.
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At no stage have I said that they (I assume you mean the Government) aren't taking the balance seriously. I live in the UK so wasn't making any comment on what's going on in Ireland at all, of which I have no knowledge whatsoever.

My view, personally is that the need for that balance (as hard as it clearly is to find) should be something which we all recognise and which is at the forefront of the debate and decision making, as well as all of the other relevant concerns. We don't (again, in my opinion) see enough honesty on this from politicians.
 
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McGrathsipan said:
I honestly dont know how people deny it exists. We can debate all day long about how dangerous it is to people but feck me it cant be debated that it actually exists
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Yeah there are different views on why governments have made it up. It’s either to:
  • Depopulate Earth by ordering people to suffocate by wearing masks
  • To get extra money from NHS and equivalents for putting covid as cause of death
  • To control population by telling them to wear masks and incapacitate their brains preventing them from thinking logically
  • Depopulate Earth by producing a deadly vaccine
  • Put more money into Bill Gates pockets
 
Sarni said:
Yeah there are different views on why governments have made it up. It’s either to:
  • Depopulate Earth by ordering people to suffocate by wearing masks
  • To get extra money from NHS and equivalents for putting covid as cause of death
  • To control population by telling them to wear masks and incapacitate their brains preventing them from thinking logically
  • Depopulate Earth by producing a deadly vaccine
  • Put more money into Bill Gates pockets
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see that crap on FB all the time so have taken a break from it
 
RedRover said:
At no stage have I said that they (I assume you mean the Government) aren't taking the balance seriously. I live in the UK so wasn't making any comment on what's going on in Ireland at all, of which I have no knowledge whatsoever.

My view, personally is that the need for that balance (as hard as it clearly is to find) should be something which we all recognise and which is at the forefront of the debate and decision making. We don't (again, in my opinion) see enough honesty on this from politicians.
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Why would it not be at the forefront of their decision-making? That's a fairly radical premise, given the governing party's consistent preference for putting the economy before healthcare, so it needs extraordinary evidence to demonstrate it.

The evidence for the opposite is pretty strong, and Leo Varadkar's words clearly echo the actions of the UK government, along with almost every other developed nation in the same scenario. How could it be that they've all settled on roughly the same plan, despite a range of economic priorities and a variety of health experts, if not for the simple fact that is the balancing act?

Arguing it's sub optimal is easy, because every decision is sub optimal. Arguing it isn't seeking to put balance at the heart of the decision-making process is a little absurd, without substantive evidence to support it. The more likely explanation is that your idea of balance and their idea of balance is different, which is inevitable in a scenario like this. It frames the problem in an entirely different context.
 
We now have as many patients in hospital as we did on the 22nd/23rd of March. ~3k.
 
redshaw said:
We now have as many patients in hospital as we did on the 22nd/23rd of March. ~3k.
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This wave is most likely going to see a long protracted rise in hospitalizations rather than a sudden sharp increase seen in march and april. How high that rise will be remains to be seen and will determine deaths together with the new treatments now available.
 
Reddevildans said:
This wave is most likely going to see a long protracted rise in hospitalizations rather than a sudden sharp increase seen in march and april. How high that rise will be remains to be seen and will determine deaths together with the new treatments now available.
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Increase is looking fairly sharp to me. Almost exponential.

There were 2,783 patients in hospital with Covid-19 today, an increase from 1,881 a week earlier, and 349 on ventilators, compared with 259 seven days ago.
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It was inevitable too. I don’t know why people thought cases could rise at such a dramatic rate without hospitalisations and deaths tracking that increase a few weeks down the line. The virus hasn’t got any less deadly.
 
Theoretically speaking, if there was a 2 week lockdown to coincide with half term holidays, how much of an impact would it have?
 
Tibs said:
Theoretically speaking, if there was a 2 week lockdown to coincide with half term holidays, how much of an impact would it have?
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On hospitality? Quite a lot I’d imagine. People have booked holidays for half term and will be frustrated if there is nowhere to go and nothing to do.
 
Rajma said:
My mate which I play footie with has been hospitalized after testing positive for covid as virus has got to his lungs (30y old, skinny lad). Brings it home really.
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Shit, sorry to hear that mate, send him all our best wishes
 
Sarni said:
Yeah there are different views on why governments have made it up. It’s either to:
  • Depopulate Earth by ordering people to suffocate by wearing masks
  • To get extra money from NHS and equivalents for putting covid as cause of death
  • To control population by telling them to wear masks and incapacitate their brains preventing them from thinking logically
  • Depopulate Earth by producing a deadly vaccine
  • Put more money into Bill Gates pockets
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Isn't one of the theories that this is just see how easily governments can get people to do what they want and that there is something bigger coming down the road?

It's like living in some whacko movie. Equilibrium maybe. Good movie.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It was inevitable too. I don’t know why people thought cases could rise at such a dramatic rate without hospitalisations and deaths tracking that increase a few weeks down the line. The virus hasn’t got any less deadly.
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Do you think that there is any substance in claims that the CFR will go down compared to the first wave as the doctors are now better at treating it?
 
Hound Dog said:
Do you think that there is any substance in claims that the CFR will go down compared to the first wave as the doctors are now better at treating it?
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I’d say so. A little bit. There’s good evidence that dexamethasone brings down mortality and I don’t think everyone got it during the first wave. Marginal gains though. Probably not enough to affect overall CFR.
 
3,000 cases reported for yesterday, 75 deaths. It’s getting really really bad here.
 
Sarni said:
3,000 cases reported for yesterday, 75 deaths. It’s getting really really bad here.
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It’s been bizarre seeing your posts about Poland because even though I knew it was a very religious country in parts when I visited I was struck with how proud the people were about their scientific input to the world over the years and they really seemed to value that sort of thing. But suppose there’s mad people everywhere when it comes to masks and scientists.
 
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