Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

[GoonerBear]

Its not the goals anyone can score 2 goals in a few minutes, its the approach. City were terrified of Liverpool and while they very rarely got the win at the Etihad, they were rent free in City heads so much so they just demolished us at Anfield everytime. You guys don't create that fair factor. Madrid when they beat us in the CL semi went head to head in a 4-3 loss here but again, we were terrified of Vinicius and Rodrygo so much so we threw away a game we should have won to them.

Not to be an asshole as you're quite a calm poster for a gunner, but we've went behind in every home game this season including Ipswich, teams going ahead at the Etihad is nothing new or scoring 2 goals.

Lets try and move this back to a sensible discussion.

There's a few different factors at play here. Those teams and managers are and were more experienced than this current Arsenal team and manager. They had a recent history of winning leagues and Champions Leagues and we currently don't.

By the same token, they didn't go into this with the same PTSD that we do. We're having to try to rebuild our confidence and mentality basically from the ground up. They never had to do that.

Even saying that, i watched Real Madrid & Bayern try and take City on toe to toe in recent years. The results, 4-0 & 3-0. So much so that Madrid & Ancelotti's approach totally changed last season and they played a lot more cautiously last season at The Etihad...big defeats often do that to even experienced managers and teams. And playing that way worked in their favour, even though they needed a bit of luck to get through the tie.

Also, you admit to being scared of Vinicius & Rodrigo. Likewise, Salah & Mane were fearsome in the past. It's obvious Arsenal still lack the X-Factor player up front that scares opposition teams, it's been what we've all been wanting this summer as well.

I also still admit that Arteta is currently a lot more cautious in these situations than a Klopp or an Ange would be. Whether that develops or is still seen as the correct approach only time will tell.

 

[Mogget]

Nope but had they chosen you it woulda been fecking hilarious. Unlike you we have the ability to laugh at ourselves and have a bit of fun. You guys are Aston Villa (great club by the way) with the entitlement of a United or Liverpool.

"You guys played like cowards"
"We didn't park the bus, City played defensively too, with their CB's on the edge of our box and 33 shots".
"you guys are cheats" It ridiculous, a club who used an MPs pull to cheese their way into the league in the first place when it wasn't merited, and were literally known as The Bank of England complaining about another club being more corrupt and having more money. Cry me a river. City are the ultimate symptom of a game thats always been rotten forefronted by clubs like yours.

You personally might but I don't know why you're speaking on behalf of your whole fan base or pretending it's somehow better than ours. There's plenty of embarrassing City fans, it's just easier to hide it when you're winning everything in sight every season.

It'd be pretty easy for me to go online and cherry pick silly quotes from your fans but I don't know what that's supposed to achieve?

I just find it funny how you're sitting up there on the perch you cheated to get to, dispensing advice on how other teams should win or how other fans should behave. It's like a lottery winner smugly giving other people financial advice

 

[padr81]

Lets try and move this back to a sensible discussion.

There's a few different factors at play here. Those teams and managers are and were more experienced than this current Arsenal team and manager. They had a recent history of winning leagues and Champions Leagues and we currently don't.

By the same token, they didn't go into this with the same PTSD that we do. We're having to try to rebuild our confidence and mentality basically from the ground up. They never had to do that.

Even saying that, i watched Real Madrid & Bayern try and take City on toe to toe in recent years. The results, 4-0 & 3-0. So much so that Madrid & Ancelotti's approach totally changed last season and they played a lot more cautiously last season at The Etihad...big defeats often do that to even experienced managers and teams.

Also, you admit to being scared of Vinicius & Rodrigo. Likewise, Salah & Mane were fearsome in the past. It's obvious Arsenal still lack the X-Factor player up front that scares opposition teams, it's been what we've all been wanting this summer as well.

I also still admit that Arteta is currently a lot more cautious in these situations than a Klopp or an Ange would be. Whether that develops or is still seen as the correct approach only time will tell.

Thats my point though buddy. If it was just City I'd say fair, right. But you've had more shots than the opposition in only 1 game of your six this season. To me you look to have taken a step backward because of the tactics. I'll hold my hand up and say its a tough run of fixtures and I'm possibly digging in to wind up some of your fans. But I still feel its not been good enough.

For me Arsenal have the team to create that x-factor they're just too shackled. Yesterday was an example. Martinelli and Saka in the first half should terrify Walker and Gvaridol, but Cities full backs paid them no respect cause Arsenal were afraid. Make them respect you, thats what Pool did and I guarantee Diaz, Salah and whoever plays up top will give us nightmares again. You guys are too good to be afraid. Not even talking about the second half.

You are not the team who used to come to the Etihad and get pumped. You're a good fecking team and Arteta needs to let you show it. I'm not saying you channel Kevin Keegans Newcastle, but have a fecking go. The couple of times you did push up you scored. Your lb who barely got forward scored a banger and I believe you won the 2 corners from your fullbacks venturing forward. But it was the only times.

Despite my wumming for the last 24 hours, I genuinely think he has to let you play or you'll come up short even without City in the mix. You're too good for Spurs to have double the amount of shots against you, or Atalanta (the current version) to outplay you etc.. You'll draw too many games you need to win like this.

 

[djembatheking]

Arteta is a coward, he should have left a bit of pace up front and tried to rattle City but he just shrank and tried to close the door. They nearly pulled it off but it was more through luck than any great play. It was comfortable for City and 9 times out of 10 they would have scored sooner. Arteta looked rattled and the Arsenal fans sound like they are too. They should have shown some balls this early in the season and put a bit of a marker down.

 

[padr81]

You personally might but I don't know why you're speaking on behalf of your whole fan base or pretending it's somehow better than ours. There's plenty of embarrassing City fans, it's just easier to hide it when you're winning everything in sight every season.

It'd be pretty easy for me to go online and cherry pick silly quotes from your fans but I don't know what that's supposed to achieve?

I just find it funny how you're sitting up there on the perch you cheated to get to, dispensing advice on how other teams should win or how other fans should behave. It's like a lottery winner smugly giving other people financial advice

No its not, because the tactics of football have nothing to do with the corruption. Do you think my opinions would be different if I supported Spurs or Liverpool or Everton?

You've started this season poorly in terms of performance despite some good results and you don't have to be Pep or Arteta to see consistently giving up more than you create is going to bite you in the arse. Last season you were domianting games till your nerves got wobbly. Beside Wolves I've seen none of that this term. I'll stop being such a wum cause I'm tired of all the typing now but its a fact.

You look to me, like you've taken a step back this season and I think its very much tactically. You're completely shackled and not controlling games at all like you did. I'm not basing my opinion on just yesterday. You'll either go out and win the league or draw your way to comfortable 2nd or 3rd with how you're playing currently.

 

[Mogget]

No its not, because the tactics of football have nothing to do with the corruption. Do you think my opinions would be different if I supported Spurs or Liverpool or Everton?

You've started this season poorly in terms of performance despite some good results and you don't have to be Pep or Arteta to see consistently giving up more than you create is going to bite you in the arse. Last season you were domianting games till your nerves got wobbly. Beside Wolves I've seen none of that this term. I'll stop being such a wum cause I'm tired of all the typing now but its a fact.

You look to me, like you've taken a step back this season and I think its very much tactically. You're completely shackled and not controlling games at all like you did. I'm not basing my opinion on just yesterday. You'll either go out and win the league or draw your way to comfortable 2nd or 3rd with how you're playing currently.

We started last season slowly too and we've had a much harder set of fixtures to start this season compared to last.

It's a little bit ridiculous we're being criticised for not being dominant at Villa away, Spurs away, and City away despite getting 7 points. Against Brighton we looked comfortable until the red card but even then we should have won that game if we didn't miss two sitters.

 

[GoonerBear]

Thats my point though buddy. If it was just City I'd say fair, right. But you've had more shots than the opposition in only 1 game of your six this season. To me you look to have taken a step backward because of the tactics. I'll hold my hand up and say its a tough run of fixtures and I'm possibly digging in to wind up some of your fans. But I still feel its not been good enough.

For me Arsenal have the team to create that x-factor they're just too shackled. Yesterday was an example. Martinelli and Saka in the first half should terrify Walker and Gvaridol, but Cities full backs paid them no respect cause Arsenal were afraid. Make them respect you, thats what Pool did and I guarantee Diaz, Salah and whoever plays up top will give us nightmares again. You guys are too good to be afraid. Not even talking about the second half.

You are not the team who used to come to the Etihad and get pumped. You're a good fecking team and Arteta needs to let you show it. I'm not saying you channel Kevin Keegans Newcastle, but have a fecking go. The couple of times you did push up you scored. Your lb who barely got forward scored a banger and I believe you won the 2 corners from your fullbacks venturing forward. But it was the only times.

Despite my wumming for the last 24 hours, I genuinely think he has to let you play or you'll come up short even without City in the mix. You're too good for Spurs to have double the amount of shots against you, or Atalanta (the current version) to outplay you etc.. You'll draw too many games you need to win like this.

I understand you digging in mate, I'll certainly keep it civil.

I think it's been a strange start to the season. We've had issues with selection in midfield with injuries and suspensions. We've had 2 games now where we've had to play a full half with 10 men just about which will skew the stats a bit. We've had a tough run of fixtures, in terms of quality of the opponent and in terms of actual scheduling of having to play away on a Thursday in Europe compared to yourselves playing at home on a Wednesday.

And yet, we could be sitting here with at least 13 points if not 15 out of 15 but for a couple of sending offs.

I think we play a run of more favourable fixtures now, 6 home games out of 7 across the different competitions, hopefully have Merino back during that run as well, so will be interested to see how the midfield settles down and if that will help steady out performances there.

 

[padr81]

We started last season slowly too and we've had a much harder set of fixtures to start this season compared to last.

It's a little bit ridiculous we're being criticised for not being dominant at Villa away, Spurs away, and City away despite getting 7 points. Against Brighton we looked comfortable until the red card but even then we should have won that game if we didn't miss two sitters.

Fair for the most part, I think results have been great btw, but that kind of play can't last. Had you say given a good performance against Villa along with the win or Atalanta I'd probably be far less harsh. But it feels a bit like what Rodri said last season, City knew they'd win the league after you came to us in March because you didn't play to win. He was more flattering of you guys than I was but that was essentially his point.

Now you might turn that around. But I guess my point is, if you draw at City, Liverpool and lets say United from this style, thats 3 points. City could quite possibly lose 1 of those 3 fixtures Emirates, Anfield, Old Trafford but they're far more likely to win one two so more likely to get 4-6 points i m o of course. Same with Liverpool. Id rather be a win one lose one team in the big games. That said without the red cards you could potentially be sitting on 18 points after a tough run but I just don't see those kinda performances lasting, theres always a sting in the tail like yesterday.

 

[Mogget]

Fair for the most part, I think results have been great btw, but that kind of play can't last. Had you say given a good performance against Villa along with the win or Atalanta I'd probably be far less harsh. But it feels a bit like what Rodri said last season, City knew they'd win the league after you came to us in March because you didn't play to win. He was more flattering of you guys than I was but that was essentially his point.

Now you might turn that around. But I guess my point is, if you draw at City, Liverpool and lets say United from this style, thats 3 points. City could quite possibly lose 1 of those 3 fixtures Emirates, Anfield, Old Trafford but they're far more likely to win one two so more likely to get 4-6 points i m o of course. Same with Liverpool. Id rather be a win one lose one team in the big games. That said without the red cards you could potentially be sitting on 18 points after a tough run but I just don't see those kinda performances lasting, theres always a sting in the tail like yesterday.

I think you're putting too much emphasis into how good we look at the start of the season.

We started the 22/23 season on fire and looked amazing in the first 10 games but we eventually ran out of steam and looked tired in the final third of the season. We started last season slowly but looked much better in the second half and were actually able to take you to the final game.

We have looked more cautious so far but I think that's more down to the difficult opening fixtures and making sure we peak at the right time. You can't play at full intensity all season so it doesn't really matter if we're not dominating difficult away games right now, as long as we get the right results.

You're basically using a one off game from last season and a difficult opening set of fixtures and extrapolating that to say we're going to be cautious all season.

 

[Gene Loblaw]

Arteta is a coward, he should have left a bit of pace up front and tried to rattle City

That's the reason he kept martinelli on instead of Saka. But yeah, no one besides Martinelli or Havertz were probably allowed to cross midfield in the second half

 

[Bilbo]

I think you're putting too much emphasis into how good we look at the start of the season.

We started the 22/23 season on fire and looked amazing in the first 10 games but we eventually ran out of steam and looked tired in the final third of the season.

I suspect you will again this season too. There's simply too much intensity at your club and it all stems from the manager. Arteta is both the best and worst thing at the club. Good enough to build a team that can win trophies, but unable to create an environment that doesn't ultimately impede it.

 

[Remember the geese]

That's the reason he kept martinelli on instead of Saka. But yeah, no one besides Martinelli or Havertz were probably allowed to cross midfield in the second half

Martinelli isn't a goal threat though.

 

[mathrait]

Yes. Liverpool have gone beyond what you've achieved. Using 4 games to solely to say you're an equal, which you did, is silly.

Not sure if you actually understand what we're talking about. Do you think Liverpool at this moment in time is more of a threat to City than Arsenal? If so, interesting take. Some people were saying that last season and we know how it ended.

I don't know what game you were watching, but City dominated that 1st half and Arsenal went ahead against the run of play.

The way the teams approached the game from the beginning shows that Arsenal still has some inferiority complex which they shouldn't have IMO.

Nope. Overall 1st half was even.
xG: 0.6 - 0.6
Shots on target: 2 - 2
Shots off target: 2 - 2

Man City's shots and xG came mostly in the first 15 minutes after which they did nothing. Arsenal were clearly on the ascendency before getting a red card.

 

[SilentWitness]

Not sure if you actually understand what we're talking about. Do you think Liverpool at this moment in time is more of a threat to City than Arsenal? If so, interesting take. Some people were saying that last season and we know how it ended.

I read the posts, I understand and agree with the notion of Liverpool being more threatening within the context that @padr81 provided.

You're also just deflecting from your bizarre original point.

 

[The-Mezzala]

Jeez an absolute barn buster of a post! Just wrong on so many levels. It's mind boggling how some on here perceive football.

What have I said that’s incorrect. Emery has taken Villa into the champions league with a team that was fighting relegation when he arrived. Lego man has signed Rice, Havertz, Jesus , Two goal keepers for big money and is still playing Pullis ball in the big games and no trophy. Even before the red card Arsenal plan was to nick it on a set piece. I think the guy gets let off by the media compared to Ten Hag who gets battered even when we win. I don’t care what anybody says. Emery is the 2nd best manager in the league. Even your club legend Tony Adams said he would of got you over the line last season.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

Not sure if you actually understand what we're talking about. Do you think Liverpool at this moment in time is more of a threat to City than Arsenal? If so, interesting take. Some people were saying that last season and we know how it ended.



Nope. Overall 1st half was even.
xG: 0.6 - 0.6
Shots on target: 2 - 2
Shots off target: 2 - 2

Man City's shots and xG came mostly in the first 15 minutes after which they did nothing. Arsenal were clearly on the ascendency before getting a red card.

The gap in the graphic you also posted stows that it wasn't. The reason you only only used the shots stat is because it's the only stat that makes it seem like it was even. Arsenal's approach to that game was that of a team scared of their opponent, which they shouldn't be after last season IMO.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

They basically played like vintage Mourinho, which has famously been called anti-football. Time wasting, playing all men behind the ball and not even trying to even string a couple of passes together. If a United manager (Ole got plenty for playing counterattacking football) gets to win in such a manager, they’d be massive criticism for taking us backwards and not playing progressively. But because Arteta is the darling of the neutrals, he’ll never have an iota of criticism on such matters.

Did you watch the game or are you just saying things without doing any sort of analysis on the game itself. I don't know ONE team that would be able to play their own way after going down to 10 men while playing a team coached by Pep. Think about it for 2 mins. You're 1-2 up against a Guardiola team, down to 10 men for another 40+ mins and you're the coach, what would you tell your team to do? A prime Real Madrid went to the Etihad, with 11 men and looked like a prime Mourihno team through no fault of their own.

 

[SilentWitness]

Did you watch the game or are you just saying things without doing any sort of analysis on the game itself. I don't know ONE team that would be able to play their own way after going down to 10 men while playing a team coached by Pep. Think about it for 2 mins. You're 1-2 up against a Guardiola team, down to 10 men for another 40+ mins and you're the coach, what would you tell your team to do? A prime Real Madrid went to the Etihad, with 11 men and looked like a prime Mourihno team through no fault of their own.

A Bielsa.

 

[erikcred]

A Bielsa.

Nicely done.

Arsenal fans taking confidently incorrect to new levels.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

A Bielsa.

A Bielsa.

I mean, how many times has that happened? That's an outlier. I'm not making excuse here, this is just looking at the consistency of the data in front of you. Apart from that game, you'd need to show where this has happened to City. At the end of the day, The data shows that very few teams go to the Etihad with 10 or 11 men and have complete control of the game.

 

[erikcred]

I mean, how many times has that happened? That's an outlier. I'm not making excuse here, this is just looking at the consistency of the data in front of you. Apart from that game, you'd need to show where this has happened to City. At the end of the day, The data shows that very few teams go to the Etihad with 10 or 11 men and have complete control of the game.

I mean, you said 'ONE' with caps and everything.

 

[mathrait]

The gap in the graphic you also posted stows that it wasn't. The reason you only only used the shots stat is because it's the only stat that makes it seem like it was even. Arsenal's approach to that game was that of a team scared of their opponent, which they shouldn't be after last season IMO.

What the graphic shows is that City didn't create anything and never threatened us after the first 15 mins while we got at them and could've score 4 goals. Hardly a dominant first half as you said.

I showed you xG, shots stat which are good metrics. What would you use? Possession means nothing if you can't use it. We use to dominate possession against Utd and Chelsea in the late 2000s and early 2010s but always end up getting thumped 3-0.

 

[footballistic orgasm]

What the graphic shows is that City didn't create anything and never threatened us after the first 15 mins while we got at them and could've score 4 goals. Hardly a dominant first half as you said.

I showed you xG, shots stat which are good metrics. What would you use? Possession means nothing if you can't use it. We use to dominate possession against Utd and Chelsea in the late 2000s and early 2010s but always end up getting thumped 3-0.

What? xG says 0.6, the clearest goal occasion you had was the Trossad miss and maybe the Gabriel header from the 1st corner (dead ball situation). No one in their right mind watching that game was expecting Arsenal to be a goal up against City at halftime and the graphic you posted basically shows it.

It's not only about possession, City was controlling the game and playing with intent.

As said earlier, Arsenal's approach to that game was clearly that of a team scared of their opponent.

 

[Harry190]

Have to give him props. He's a top manager for Arsenal. Watching videos made it look cringe worthy from MY perspective but he has clearly tapped into something his young players appreciate. He's the real deal.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Arsenal have discipline issues and it reflects Arteta's antics on the sidelines.

There might be something in this. Behaving like a lunatic on the touchline is bound to rub off on your players sometimes.

 

[Samid]

The moment he has a couple of players missing from his main XI he gets badly exposed.

 

[AshRK]

Their performance this season seem to have regressed. They have been quite fortunate to get 3 points in some games.

Also, don't think it is bad luck with the red cards. It reflects on what the manager wants to you to play like. All these cynical, thuggish behavior werw eventually going to catch on and be punished.

 

[SER19]

11pts from 18. Can't keep that form up much longer nowadays for a title challenge.

I do think they're squad still lacks depth, only a couple of key players out and they look way off it. Makes you think of what we dealt with almost all last season.

 

[Torino]

Spent most in Europe in recent seasons too, being exposed here.. Especially as he looks after - very ‘emotional’ fanbase.

 

[V.O.]

Second best football manager from the Basque province of Gipuzkoa currently in Bournemouth.

 

[SilentWitness]

2 draws and 6 wins in first 8 last season and 2 draws, 1 loss and 5 wins this season. Liverpool, Newcastle and Chelsea next. Could be a tough October/November for him.

 

[One Night Only]

He will mention the 3 red cards so far this season, say referees are targeting his team because he is magnificent and has beautiful black hair. Referees won't card an arsenal player for the rest of the season and apologise publicly to him.

He will also get to referee 3 games of his choice this season.

 

[K Stand Knut]

He will mention the 3 red cards so far this season, say referees are targeting his team because he is magnificent and has beautiful black hair. Referees won't card an arsenal player for the rest of the season and apologise publicly to him.

He will also get to referee 3 games of his choice this season.

This!

I assume the media will treat him with the same respect they treated Ten Hag with after having the audacity to lose a game after going down to 10 men.

And, yes, I know that Arteta might have more credit in the bank

 

[GoonerBear]

Spent most in Europe in recent seasons too, being exposed here.. Especially as he looks after - very ‘emotional’ fanbase.

You keep saying this despite being told your wrong.

 

[wr8_utd]

They're very likely going to be absolutely fine even if they wobble right now so a bit strange to see the knives out for him here on the basis of one game where they played with 10 men for 60 mins away from home. Arsenal are still very easily going to finish in the Top 2 and probably favorites for the title given the Rodri injury.

 

[awop]

They're very likely going to be absolutely fine even if they wobble right now so a bit strange to see the knives out for him here on the basis of one game where they played with 10 men for 60 mins away from home. Arsenal are still very easily going to finish in the Top 2 and probably favorites for the title given the Rodri injury.

Come back tomorrow after City win and you will have 3 more pages asking why Arteta hasn't been sacked yet.

 

[One Night Only]

TBF people just want him sacked cos he's a massive prick and everyone is sick of seeing his smug face in TV. Can't wait till he disappears and we never need to see or hear about him again.

 

[AshRK]

Come back tomorrow after City win and you will have 3 more pages asking why Arteta hasn't been sacked yet

I am not sure if anyone has asked for arteta to be sacked (atleast not that I have seen). This is the issue with some Arsenal fans , the moment people try to make constructive criticism they think arteta should be sacked. No, many are just pointing out some of the flaws they are seeing in arsenal this season.

 

[awop]

2 draws and 6 wins in first 8 last season and 2 draws, 1 loss and 5 wins this season. Liverpool, Newcastle and Chelsea next. Could be a tough October/November for him.

The games being compared are:

24/25: Wolves (h), Villa (a), Brighton (Draw - Rice red card), Spurs (a), City (a), Leicester(h), Southampton(h), Bournemouth (a) 2-0

23/24: Forest (h), Palace (a), Fulham (Draw (h)), United (h), Everton (a), Spurs (Draw(h)), Bournemouth (a), City (h)

I'd say this season start is a bit harder even before taking into account the dubious decisions and Odegaard injury.

All in all it's pretty similar, nothing to be alarmed about.This season's start is all about Saka so no surprise we looked rubbish without him. Hopefully he's fit for those next 3. Timber also need to be back in against Liverpool but don't know what Arteta will do. RB and slide White at CB ? The issue is i'm not sure i want Calafiori against Salah...

 

[Rooney in Paris]

The games being compared are:

24/25: Wolves (h), Villa (a), Brighton (Draw - Rice red card), Spurs (a), City (a), Leicester(h), Southampton(h), Bournemouth (a) 2-0

23/24: Forest (h), Palace (a), Fulham (Draw (h)), United (h), Everton (a), Spurs (Draw(h)), Bournemouth (a), City (h)

I'd say this season start is a bit harder even before taking into account the dubious decisions and Odegaard injury.

All in all it's pretty similar, nothing to be alarmed about.This season's start is all about Saka so no surprise we looked rubbish without him. Hopefully he's fit for those next 3. Timber also need to be back in against Liverpool but don't know what Arteta will do. RB and slide White at CB ? The issue is i'm not sure i want Calafiori against Salah...

Dubious decisions?