Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch

Tony247 said:
Actually Arsrnal lost their 'style' under Arteta.
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Not really.

This is the guy who believes in his vision, believed football can be played with calculator and genius coaching.

Getting rid of quality players for the sake of team style is his stupidest decision. How can you get rid of Guendouzi and Ozil? It's because he thinks he can setup the team with his genius tactics!

Play style can take you so far, when that soured down, your top players will bail you out in difficult situations. Right now, Arsenal only have one coveted player in Aubameyang, others can go to Championship and nobody would take them away.
 
Web of Bissaka said:
Overtime, plenty of evidences eg. mostly games, decisions makings, players transfers selection, etc, seems to suggest he quickly becoming one - a tactical genius, silently. It's usually not rated often, but most of his final 4-5 seasons are him showcasing his tactical variations and prowess, even often get the better of his opponents, in return he get to 3 finals around the late 2010s, sacrificing bits of entertainment along the way.

SAF is always learning as a manager and coach, which is interesting. I'm sure he also learnt a lot of tactics from his assistants.

:D Also about the Ole part. What are you saying. Ole also kicked egos out of the team eg. Lukaku, Sanchez and Smalling. Yes even Chris have egos. Also he couldn't manage Gomes well. Matic too is one of the ego player kicked out before both made their u-turns. Look, it's not only up to the manager, the players also is part of the relationship problem.
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Disagree mate.

Lukaku wasn't frozen out, he was on the bench. End of season he left the club, and the player never blamed the manager since. - Fair

Sanchez was not an ego problem. He had mental difficulties and was just not good enough. Ole never blamed him once. Let go - Fair

Smalling was not in Ole's plans. He was given a good way out to Roma for being a loyal servant. Not kicked out of match day squads - Fair

Gomes was a talent. But he was given a contract offer and he left. He wanted guaranteed play time, but we also had overwhelming talent in his positions. He was let go. - Tough decision but Fair

Matic is the BEST case of Ole's management. A player who wanted out. He badmouthed Ole with Serbia, but Ole wasn't like Arteta and didn't kick him out. He sorted it out with Matic, and Matic went on to play a key role in United's second half. He was rewarded with a contract. THAT is great man-management.

Ole has revealed that some players refused to train before under him. They have left. But we didn't know who these players were at the time. That is trust in the dressing room code.

Sorry mate, but there's a big difference.
 
meamth said:
A prime example of a top club prioritizing style of play over player quality.
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I'm not so sure about that. Under Wenger they played some lovely football but the feeling among the fan base seemed to be that results mattered more than style. Sadly for them they now have worse results, and much worse football.

The best bit was when David Luiz had that total meltdown game last year and everyone on sky was saying it was his last game and then they went and rewarded him with a new deal
 
Samid said:
When I look at Arsenal’s fixtures, every game is a banana skin on paper. The first game that I can say with real conviction that ‘yup this should be a comfortable win’ is the Fulham game, at the end of April.

They’ve put themselves in a position where every game is suddenly a chore for them. The likes of Fulham, WBA and Brighton are used to dogfights. The games aren’t really a chore for those teams because they come into every season knowing they’re in a relegation battle.

I can imagine the likes of Big Sam and Potter absolutely licking their lips at the thought of facing Arsenal during the festive period. They’ll prepare their men as if it were a cup final. These games are now 6 pointers that Arsenal can’t afford to lose.

The stats are damning for Arsenal. In the last two months they’ve been the second worst team in the league. Chances created they’re even worse than Sheffield. A trend like that isn’t flipped overnight. They’ve got 5 points in 10 games, that is relegation form over a 25 % period.

Dyche won’t go down, he’s not done overachieving at Burnley. Potter and Brighton are passing the eye test, results are surely just around the corner. Big Sam is a master of saving sinking ships. Even Fulham have tweaked formations and stopped losing games.

If Arsenal get less than 4 points from their next 3 they’re well and truly in a relegation battle.
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I'd love to be wrong and Arsenal to go down, or even just involved in a genuine relegation battle, it would be incredible.

I just don't see it happening, to be honest I don't think it'll even be close. I think they'll sack Arteta in the next few weeks and after that probably string a few results together to settle into lower mid table dross.

Which would still be an utter disaster for Arsenal, to be finishing 12th or whatever. But I think they're lucky that there are 3 or 4 worse teams than them, that's what will ultimately be their saving grace.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
I'd love to be wrong and Arsenal to go down, or even just involved in a genuine relegation battle, it would be incredible.

I just don't see it happening, to be honest I don't think it'll even be close. I think they'll sack Arteta in the next few weeks and after that probably string a few results together to settle into lower mid table dross.

Which would still be an utter disaster for Arsenal, to be finishing 12th or whatever. But I think they're lucky that there are 3 or 4 worse teams than them, that's what will ultimately be their saving grace.
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think he will be gone after the next 2 fixtures. the new man will make some improvements, and they will probably scrape top half.

talk of relegation is just media sensationalism.
 
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
think he will be gone after the next 2 fixtures. the new man will make some improvements, and they will probably scrape top half.

talk of relegation is just media sensationalism.
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To be fair their next 2 fixtures are City and Chelsea.

I think he'll lose both and because everybody expects them to lose both he won't be sacked. It's the run of "easy" fixtures after that, the likes of Brighton and Newcastle and Palace, where I think he'll end up getting the boot.
 
Djemba-Djemba said:
To be fair their next 2 fixtures are City and Chelsea.

I think he'll lose both and because everybody expects them to lose both he won't be sacked. It's the run of "easy" fixtures after that, the likes of Brighton and Newcastle and Palace, where I think he'll end up getting the boot.
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logically you are right, but I think timing wise, with the start of the window, that’s the time to pull the trigger. Worst case for Arsenal is to sack him at the end of Jan.
 
The Red Thinker said:
Disagree mate.

Lukaku wasn't frozen out, he was on the bench. End of season he left the club, and the player never blamed the manager since. - Fair

Sanchez was not an ego problem. He had mental difficulties and was just not good enough. Ole never blamed him once. Let go - Fair

Smalling was not in Ole's plans. He was given a good way out to Roma for being a loyal servant. Not kicked out of match day squads - Fair

Gomes was a talent. But he was given a contract offer and he left. He wanted guaranteed play time, but we also had overwhelming talent in his positions. He was let go. - Tough decision but Fair

Matic is the BEST case of Ole's management. A player who wanted out. He badmouthed Ole with Serbia, but Ole wasn't like Arteta and didn't kick him out. He sorted it out with Matic, and Matic went on to play a key role in United's second half. He was rewarded with a contract. THAT is great man-management.

Ole has revealed that some players refused to train before under him. They have left. But we didn't know who these players were at the time. That is trust in the dressing room code.

Sorry mate, but there's a big difference.
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Thank you. You put it perfectly. One great indication of Ole's excellent management is that he always sorted every issue privately. His respect for the dressing room earned him the dressing rooms respect and you can see that every player plays for him. It's one of the reasons why our players always bounce back from periods of poor form.
Arteta for me, seems like the the man who wants to have total control of the dressing room without earning it. Pep gets away with it bcos he is a tactical genius and he has the track record to back himself. For arteta though, it's clear to everyone that it's not going to work for him.
 
City, Chelsea, Brighton and West Brom are their next four games in all comps. Can't see them winning any of the first 3. Lose the West Brom game and could see him given his p45.
 
Hodgson actually had 5 more points from the first 14 games when he managed us in 2010 than Arteta has now.
 
There are some interesting paralells with Solskjær's trajectory. Like OGS, he took over a team in shambles and got some quick improvements. Like OGS, he embarked on a rebuild. Like OGS, he made fixing the defence his first priority. And like OGS was before Bruno, he is now stuck with a team that is held back by the lack of creativity in the midfield. A bit surprising they did not prioritise that in the summer window, it was always Arsenal's most obvious weak spot even before Arteta.

They now look well-organised and drilled, but there's just no offensive spark. So predictable. Even though there is no shortage of skilled players in the attack. You wonder if Arteta isn't attempting to implement a system that requires qualities his squad doesn't have.

I think they've gone to deep into it with Arteta to sack him unless there seems to be a real risk of relegation. I would think it would probably be better for them to try to fix the midfield in the January window. Ideally with Aouar who seems to be their preferred option, if possible. Or if that's too expensive, a suitable short-term solution. I don't know, Banega on loan?
 
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Xaviesta said:
City, Chelsea, Brighton and West Brom are their next four games in all comps. Can't see them winning any of the first 3. Lose the West Brom game and could see him given his p45.
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Big Sam sticking the boot in :lol:

I still think they’ll fluke a big win and their fans will go on about the genius of Arteta
 
nainaisson said:
No, he'll probably coach Molde for a few years, hoping the experience will turn him into as good a manager as Ole.
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See, at first I thought this was sarcasm, but then I am sure Arteta would like to be as good as Ole (or at least as high in the league table), so now I'm unsure :wenger:
 
Xaviesta said:
City, Chelsea, Brighton and West Brom are their next four games in all comps. Can't see them winning any of the first 3. Lose the West Brom game and could see him given his p45.
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If they lose those four they could well be sitting in the relegation zone.
 
justsomebloke said:
There are some interesting paralells with Solskjær's trajectory. Like OGS, he took over a team in shambles and got some quick improvements. Like OGS, he embarked on a rebuild. Like OGS, he made fixing the defence his first priority. And like OGS was before Bruno, he is now stuck with a team that is held back by the lack of creativity in the midfield. A bit surprising they did not prioritise that in the summer window, it was always Arsenal's most obvious weak spot even before Arteta.

They now look well-organised and drilled, but there's just no offensive spark. So predictable. Even though there is no shortage of skilled players in the attack. You wonder if Arteta isn't attempting to implement a system that requires qualities his squad doesn't have.

I think they've gone to deep into it with Arteta to sack him unless there seems to be a real risk of relegation. I would think it would probably be better for them to try to fix the midfield in the January window. Ideally with Aouar who seems to be their preferred option, if possible. Or if that's too expensive, a suitable short-term solution. I don't know, Banega on loan?
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There is still a huge difference between him and Ole though. For one, Ole leans into the talent at his disposal. He tries to create an environment for his best players to shine both on and off the field. Arteta on the other hand, actually limits his best players.
 
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STYLOISRED said:
There is still a huge difference between jim and Ole though. For one, Ole leans into the talent at his disposal. He tries to create an environment for his best players to shine both on and off the field. Arteta on the other hand, actually limits his best players.
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Yes, they clearly have very different approaches. It's more the challenges that are similar.
 
There is tremendous value in a statistical approach to analysing & managing a football team but there is zero value in publicly using statistics like that to defend bad results.
 
Maybe Pep lets him win, so he can stay in charge of Arsenal. Gets all the praise from media and God himself, then lose next few. Pep is not stupid, you know, and it will give his team some rest, speccially now when the LC final is two days before CL SF.
 
justsomebloke said:
There are some interesting paralells with Solskjær's trajectory. Like OGS, he took over a team in shambles and got some quick improvements. Like OGS, he embarked on a rebuild. Like OGS, he made fixing the defence his first priority. And like OGS was before Bruno, he is now stuck with a team that is held back by the lack of creativity in the midfield. A bit surprising they did not prioritise that in the summer window, it was always Arsenal's most obvious weak spot even before Arteta.

They now look well-organised and drilled, but there's just no offensive spark. So predictable. Even though there is no shortage of skilled players in the attack. You wonder if Arteta isn't attempting to implement a system that requires qualities his squad doesn't have.

I think they've gone to deep into it with Arteta to sack him unless there seems to be a real risk of relegation. I would think it would probably be better for them to try to fix the midfield in the January window. Ideally with Aouar who seems to be their preferred option, if possible. Or if that's too expensive, a suitable short-term solution. I don't know, Banega on loan?
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Sadly for Arteta, midfielders like Bruno Fernandes don't come by often. Fernandes is playing at an All-European Elite level. He's outpacing the best of the best and to top it all off, the man is insanely competitive.

Isco will not have anywhere near the same impact. You need a fighter and a leader. Lord knows who that can be in January. Credit to Woodward for pulling off the most important transfer in the last 10 years.
 
Berbasbullet said:
Feel like it’s a bit of a meme tbh, surely no one thinks they’re going down?
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You mean like West Ham in 2003 or Leeds in 2004?

If you're down there, you're bad enough to go down.

I wouldn't put my mortgage on it, but it's definitely worth a cheeky tenner.
 
I'd be amazed if he keeps his job and turns it around.

Don't really have anything against him so good luck to him (I do enjoy seeing Arsenal in the mud though)
 
Watched his recent press conference there for the carabao cup. The guy looks completely unfazed and calm. Not that that's a bad thing but if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be looking for more emotion or something.
 
sullydnl said:
There is tremendous value in a statistical approach to analysing & managing a football team but there is zero value in publicly using statistics like that to defend bad results.
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Agree with your general point. But also, am I the only one who thinks what Arteta is saying here isn't confidence-inspiring?


Arteta produced a raft of statistics that he said showed Arsenal are largely doing enough to win games. They controlled possession in recent defeats to Tottenham, Burnley and Everton, although the lack of clear chances is an overarching theme.

“When you look at the perspective of how we are losing football matches and how we are where we are, it is pretty incredible,” he said. “Last year we won against Everton with a 25% chance of winning, you win 3-2.

“Last weekend [against Everton] it was a 67% chance of winning and a 9% chance of losing, and you lose,” Arteta added. “And 3% against Burnley and you lose, 7% against Spurs, and you lose. If you are constantly in the 60s and 70s long-term, you are going to win many more matches and this is what we have to try to do.”

Obviously The Guardian is only quoting some of what he said, but he does seem to think (also from other statements he's made) that what they're doing ought to make them win games, and that it's a bit of fluke that they aren't. That's not what it's looking like to me when I watch them play.


Mikel Arteta says there is no room for self-doubt among his Arsenal players | Football | The Guardian
 
justsomebloke said:
Agree with your general point. But also, am I the only one who thinks what Arteta is saying here isn't confidence-inspiring?


Arteta produced a raft of statistics that he said showed Arsenal are largely doing enough to win games. They controlled possession in recent defeats to Tottenham, Burnley and Everton, although the lack of clear chances is an overarching theme.

“When you look at the perspective of how we are losing football matches and how we are where we are, it is pretty incredible,” he said. “Last year we won against Everton with a 25% chance of winning, you win 3-2.

“Last weekend [against Everton] it was a 67% chance of winning and a 9% chance of losing, and you lose,” Arteta added. “And 3% against Burnley and you lose, 7% against Spurs, and you lose. If you are constantly in the 60s and 70s long-term, you are going to win many more matches and this is what we have to try to do.”

Obviously The Guardian is only quoting some of what he said, but he does seem to think (also from other statements he's made) that what they're doing ought to make them win games, and that it's a bit of fluke that they aren't. That's not what it's looking like to me when I watch them play.


Mikel Arteta says there is no room for self-doubt among his Arsenal players | Football | The Guardian
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Exactly, the worrying thing is that he believes that they played well in most games, and that it was only some bad luck or anamoly that they are not winning. That after some time things will just improve, when really they are not playing well at all. Their results are reflection of their performances, they are getting what they deserve.
 
There is no excuse for Arsenal to be where they are. They have one of the top scoring strikers in recent year, they got their CB, they got their DMC. They got their LB last season. Saka is decent. But they wasted 72m on Pepe and are paying 300k to a player that doesn't make the squad. They should at least be 10th as they have better players than West Ham and the like
 
Arsenal almost certainly won't go down, but player for player is their current team really that much stronger than say, Leeds in 2004 or Newcastle in 2009 who did?
 
Shark said:
Watched his recent press conference there for the carabao cup. The guy looks completely unfazed and calm. Not that that's a bad thing but if I were an Arsenal fan I'd be looking for more emotion or something.
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He looks like the kind of guy you could smash around the face and he'd still be calm in fairness.

Probably very firmly recognises that being paid millions to oversee a bunch of footy guys isn't the worst sort of pressure in the world.
 
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