Arsenal left gaps chasing the game (prematurely in my opinion). United exploited the space well. None of this is a dig at United. I'm literally saying you played well and capitalised on our weaknesses. I don't get the antagonism against someone who is applauding your performance.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Arsenal fans are forever salty about that game because of the rotational fouling - particularly on Reyes. Gary Neville has since admitted that the game plan was for everyone to kick him until the Ref intervened... and he didn't so they kept kicking him.
Well, Reyes was a good player. It’s a pity he had not worked out himself.
Arsenal played fine for most of the game but it was Arteta who lost you it. Ten Hag schooled him tactically after the equaliser went in, one manager remained calm and made the changes to help his team get a foothold back into the game while the other made a triple sub in blind panic which compromised the whole structure of his team. It's pretty much the dictionary definition of naivety.
The way we set up wasn't pure counter attack either, we certainly played that way as the game wore on but there were nice patterns and good build up early on and even for the first United goal. Ten Hag is a pragmatic manager who recognises what he needs to do to win games of football. He hasn't had 3 years to implement his style of play so he has to pick and choose his moments. The ability to hold the ball and take the game to the opposition is something that will come with time.
There is more to management than tactics. Recruitment, player development, and the work done on the training pitch. Mourinho is a good tactician but recruitment and player development is alien to him. Saka and Martinelli are becoming elite, still both 21 and Arteta gets massive credit for their development. Recruitment in the past 2 years at Arsenal have been fantastic. I dont think Arteta is a 'tactical' manager, he is definitely a rhythm & fluency manager intent on building a team to play a style of football that is fluid rather than strategic. Wenger was like this, even in his early years. Arteta has us playing a quality brand of football where chances are flowing. I fancy we have the possibility of ending the season with the most goals scored baring Man City. I sincerely think we could outscore even Liverpool.
Its just a matter of having the quality of players to execute it. The backline made a bit of a mess of defending the second and third goal. But its the players that need to learn. We cant sacrifice our intent to cover for certain players. I am fully behind Arteta aggressive approach. I would be so disappointed if we became more passive simply because of this result and we played a deeper line.
He made a bad set of substitutions and you'll probably get done on the break in some big games in the league and the Europa league, but I agree.
The system is progressive and there is a lot of fluidity in the team. The big question for Arsenal I think is less if they finish 2nd (which the fans will treat as a sign they'll win a title in the next few years if they can hang on to their key players) or 4th this year (but 5th might hurt the ability to keep players and bring in new ones) and more "can they find the right midfielder to buy in the summer/will Lokonga and Vieira come good and can Partey stay healthy." Xhaka has played well enough and Odegaard does his job quite well most of the time (though he is sort of a flawed player when you consider the most attacking midfielder is a role that guys like De Bruyne and Bruno are given because their end product and athleticism are so good) but it is a very average midfield with a really good backline for Arteta's football, a decent enough goalkeeper on the ball and now a really damn good, even great frontline when you consider Martinelli and Saka's likely improvements to true stars on the trajectory they're on and Jesus looking good immediately as a #9.
It really looks like you should have bought one more midfielder who can really tackle and stop counters and provide some physicality in the team. 9 goals scored, 2 conceded in the games Partey played 90 minutes in and 5 goals scored, 5 conceded in the 3 he hasn't played a minute in. He's basically your Varane, in that they need to play 25+ games for the team to finish top 4 and 30+ to finish 2nd behind City assuming Liverpool don't get back to playing 90 point football.
You guys should have bought Cheick Doucoure, he looks really good at Palace, and that's playing with Jeffrey Schlupp as a partner, who is just a decent and very versatile utility man/squad player type.
His defensive line in the 2nd half was as high as my mate Rainbow Jeremy who smokes his own homegrown and has no telly in his house.
That's pretty high
I don't think we'll have a chance of 2nd, most Arsenal fans I know would bite your hands off scraping 4th this season, and then trying to improve and consolidate that next season.
I agree with your points about the midfield. If we want to play similar to City, I was having a think about what we lack (pre Haaland) and the glaring ommision is that X Factor player in midfield, that can turn good possession into chances and goals. In that position City have 2 of the best, in Silva and De Bruyne. You guys have similar top players in Bruno and even Eriksen now.
We have Odegaard the who is neat and tidy, but not as ruthless as what these guys are.
Can Vieira become that player? Are there any more on the market with that potential, maybe Nkunku, maybe Szoboszlai, someone of that ilk?
Again, agree with your assessment on the number 6 position. I have a theory that the club have earmarked Danilo in January to come in and take over from Elneny to compete with Partey. However, given all Partey's issues with availability, I'd be looking to replace him as well next summer.
A very good and fair assessment in amongst the madness.
Never let him speak in class.
In keep seeing this being mentioned but doesn’t having an effective counter press mean you have a higher line than most? Klopp started playing with a higher line 2 years ago thanks to this
Tactics are a hugely important in football though. Arsenal have a good group of young players but without the correct guidance on the pitch they will always fall at the final hurdle. It's all well and good saying it's a young team, and it is, but this is also 3 years in the making now. At what point does it go from being a project to one which requires results?
The other thing that remains to be seen with Arteta is how he copes with 3 games a week. He struggled massively with it on the couple of occasions you had to do it last season and the first time it's happened this season, you also lost. Arsenal still have a relatively thin squad and once the Europa League games and domestic cup games are kicking off most midweeks until the World Cup, that will be the real test of their credentials.
2nd becomes impossible providing Liverpool resurrect last season's form. However given their opening form and seeing Darwin struggle, finishing above Liverpool is not a fantasy, especially given we already have a 6-point run on them.
Liverpool themselves should not consider top 4 a given.
Says the fan of a team who had three shots on target in their last match. A match he claims his team dominated.The amount of hubris that Arsenal generate is incredible. Again and again and again. A run of easy fixtures and they’re the second best attacking team in the league. Good one. My God it’s going to be fun when their bubbles bursts. Just like it always is.
The amount of hubris that Arsenal generate is incredible. Again and again and again. A run of easy fixtures and they’re the second best attacking team in the league. Good one. My God it’s going to be fun when their bubbles bursts. Just like it always is.
Why would Saka, Martinelli & Jesus cease to be a goal threat? Why is it impossible this attack isn't going to be one of the highest scoring teams in the league? Saka and Martinelli are on the up. Mane is gone, Salah is out of form and Darwin is struggling.
Do you reckon United will score more goals than this Arsenal side?
Mate, with all due respect You have 3 players for 3 positions. That won't be near enough for this season. Who exactly are the 4th, 5th etc. option?
Liverpool have scored more goals than you so far this season. Brentford have scored more goals than you ffs.
You could well be one of the highest scoring teams in the league this season. Feck knows. All I know for certain is that I’ve seen this movie before. Arsenal being hyped to the moon and back after a few good results against poor opponents. You failed your first real test on Sunday. Let’s see how you do in your next few. I think there’s an excellent chance you finish 5th or lower this season. Time will tell.
It will be the results against the poor opponents that will go a long way in deciding top 4 this season.
I'm sure if you were top of the league, you would get a lot of plaudits, infact most think you are back even though you're not even top 4. You dont get more points for big tests,
Nah, it will be results against all opponents that matters. Poor, average and good. Same as always. And the results against the better teams will matter the most. United not only picked up 3 points on Sunday, we ensured that Arsenal got 0 points. Which we can’t do when we play the likes of Bournemouth. This is all really obvious stuff. Not sure why I’m having to spell it out.
Liverpool racked up the score against Bournemouth scoring 9 in one game. I would rather score 9 goals across three games than 9 in one match. We have scored at least 2 goals in every match this season bar one, where we did score and had a semi decent goal chalked off.
ESR and Nketiah, Vieria can also play on the right. ESR was a double-digit goal scorer last season. Nketiah is finding his form too
Is there a team in the league with world class 4th and 5th choice options? Teams generally score goals with their first choice forwards not the options form the bench
Yeah, of course, but there's a lot more points on offer playing the other 14 teams than there are for playing the other top 6 teams. And Arsenal last season beat Chelsea, Utd & Spurs in 1 game and lost to them the other cancelling the scores against each other out. We lost too many games vs the likes of Brighton, Newcastle, Everton & Palace last season.
Yeah, this is what I'm saying, Smith-Rowe is more a sub for Odegaard. So You basically have Nketiah as sub/rotation for 4 competitions.
Just off the top of my head:
Man City: Haaland, Alvarez, Mahrez, Foden, Grealish, Bernardo
Liverpool: Nunez, Jota, Salah, Diaz, Firmino
Man United: Martial, Sancho, Rashford, Antony, C. Ronaldo
Chelsea: Sterling, Havertz, Aubameyang, Ziyech, Pulisic
Spurs: Kane, Son, Richarlison, Kulusevski, L. Moura
These are all better/more accomplished players than even Your 4th choice options for these positions. Maybe the "starting" 3 from these lists won't score more than Your first 3, but all these teams have rotation options and with those counting as well I presume they will score more goals.
Arteta should have rode last season better, it was the perfect storm for Arsenal, relatively normal season with minimal rotation needed, and struggling rivals (Spurs, United, Chelsea to a certain degree).
No. ESR played last season as a LF, he and Martinelli rotated that spot. ESR is the 4th option and Nketiah the 5th
Your also being very generous with some of those players. Pulisic, Ziyech, Moura - there are defenders that will outscore these 'forwards'.
As soon as you said ESR is a sub for Odegaard your point went really.
ESR rotated with Martinelli all last season on the LW. He barely subbed for Odegaard.
Vieira is the sub for Odegaard.
Won't disagree we need a RW Pepe replacement though, bit silly we never did it.
So your attacking front 3 options are
Martinelli-Jesus-Saka
and
ESR-Nketiah-?
With Vieira a replacement for Odegaard. Who fills in the question mark?
I coach an U18 team and you're correct somewhat. Here's the thing about your pragmatism. When we're trying to instill a style of play or a system for a team, the worst thing you can do as a coach, is during times of difficulties, ask your players to 'play another way'. Yes, sometimes we may ask certain players to take up different positions or even ask the team to adjust the formation a bit based on the opposition, but the overall process and the system must be the same. If you keep changing because of the opposition, the players would get confused and start distrusting the system you're trying to implement. Trust me on this one bro, I have experience on this one. Pragmatism is good but only to a point where your players aren't being confused and start questioning if you actually know what the hell you're doing.
Managing a PL team is a bit different to managing an U18 team, with all due respect. Any manager at the highest level who is unable or unwilling to tweak his tactics/formation (and drill his players on how to implement these tweaks) to deal with specific fixtures will get found out very quickly. And professional footballers are well capable of understanding this. They’re professional footballers, not schoolboys.
That's the big gap. We obviously wa Ted that other wide player, hence the Raphinha & Neto talk. Think for this season the idea now is that guys like ESR, Jesus, Martinelli, & Vieira are flexible and can fill multiple positions.
If you are talking about an actual other option to play there, Marquinhos is the natural replacement, but he's young, raw and a bit of a wildcard.
Be interesting to see if he plays against Zurich tomorrow.
Currently Marquinhos but Vieira also can play there.
Well, I wasn't too far off in my team prediction. 2 differences, Gabriel started instead of Cedric because he had an injury, and Martinelli played because Smith-Rowe is injured (again).
Quite liked the Vieira and Marquinhos performances, both look like they have something to offer the first team at least this season.
Marquinhos needs chances as Saka's deputy. The guy could be another Martinelli.
That's fair enough - but a youth team is obviously a different kettle of fish: I understand that you won't abandon a system you're drilling youngsters in just to grab a few points here and there.
That really isn't comparable to a coach having a "philosophy" he insists upon after working for several years with senior players who compete at the top level (where every point counts, as it were).
Really impressed with his works at Arsenal so far. It's not about getting top 4 or trophy. He has implemented a very exciting attacking style of play at Arsenal. City, Barca and Bayern might be interested if he keeps performing at Arsenal.
So we are the only ones to have beaten these upstarts so far.
A game every three / four days until part of November
Really interested to see how he manages through that period
He's defo suited to one game a week and think that has helped the starting line up so far.
Really interested to see how he manages through that period
He's defo suited to one game a week and think that has helped the starting line up so far.
With all the bullying fans give Maguire - it’s quite crazy how many things fans get wrong as well.
Arteta was ridiculed here for ages and is now proving a lot of us wrong.
Arteta was ridiculed here for ages and is now proving a lot of us wrong.
People don’t give him credit, cause they backed Ole hard over him. He is a good manager. Was clear from the start that he had a plan.
They are surely title contenders now and no one can doubt that.