Agree. But we are aiming for that level of quality. Thats why im optimistic with Arteta. We are showing gradual signs of being able to execute this high-level brand of football. The truth is you cant get to that level without attempting it.
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
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Agree. But we are aiming for that level of quality. Thats why im optimistic with Arteta. We are showing gradual signs of being able to execute this high-level brand of football. The truth is you cant get to that level without attempting it.
Great to hear Keano calling him out
Roy Keane is a dinosaur. 'He tells it like it is' they say. More he like he tells it like its not.
His whole persona is throwing shade at modern footballers on instagram and their smart phone obsession. 'back in-mee dae we listened to da manager, we not on da fones taken selfies aye'.
The match was very Wenger coming up against Fergie in the latter years. All this talk about Arsenal dominating, but they played right into our hands. They got their equaliser, and whilst it was probably coming, it happened due to a mistake from our end. And even then, when we made a mistake, we got back,and then made another mistake which gifted the chance to Saka. Arsenal had the ball, but were not bombarding us with chances (like they did in the highlighted game above with DDG pulling off save after save).
Arteta making those subs played right into our hands. But even before that, they were there to be hit on the counter with a correct pass or two from us. Everton at home might be a good game to bounce back with though but then they have brentford, spurs and liverpool. That will be a good test especially with Europa sandwiched in with it. He will have to rotate and rest.
Whats your point? The bloke was captain of the most successful team during a long period of time.. if ever there was someone to listen to about standards and expectations etc it would be him. Give me low key “we’ll celebrate today, tomorrow it’s back to work” over “let’s all gather round in the Arsenal dressing room and celebrate finishing 4th with a group hug and a million and one selfies”.
Wow, you really got him there.
To each their own, I guess - you can't expect an Arsenal fan to necessarily like Roy Keane. But it's notable that all the stuff he's usually going on about, like desire, work rate and aggression, is something that this United side has improved on a lot after Brentford and it's coincided with us improving our results as well. Also, his criticism of the modern player's off the field activities usually only comes when they are not performing on the pitch or living up to their potential.
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Witty.
Ironic how Arsenal fans are acting as if they dominated the game for 90 minutes and battered United. It seems somethings never change.
United dominated them in the first 15 minutes and then things became even before we scored a well worked team goal. I would say first half was even but with us scoring it was our half. Even possession wise it was 46 to 54 so nothing huge difference.
Second half they started well and just like us in the first half dominated for the first 15 minutes before they scored a well deserved goal, which to be honest they were fortunate with. After that they panicked and became more open, thanks to Arteta's naivety. We rightly won the game.
Now I don't even remember any clear cut chances that they created, maybe barring the odegaard chance and Saliba's which was also not a clear cut chance. In fact we had more opportunities to make it 4 or 5-1. The pressing from Ronaldo ehich caused Ramsdale to make a mistake was a moment Bruno should have taken advantage and scored the goal. Same Fred had a golden opportunity to pass it to ronaldo who was one on one but he misplaced the pass. The fact remains Arsenal dominated the ball in the second half but it was United who were in dangerous positions.
I am not saying Arsenal were crap that day but in fact they played decent but let us stop pretending this was a prime Barca performance or a City performance. It was a typical latter year wenger performance. And if I were an Arsenal fan, rather than making excuses, I would be disappointed to lose the game to a manager who is 6 game old when my own manager has done feck all in the premier league and has been in the job for close to 3 years now.
United dominated them in the first 15 minutes and then things became even before we scored a well worked team goal. I would say first half was even but with us scoring it was our half. Even possession wise it was 46 to 54 so nothing huge difference.
Second half they started well and just like us in the first half dominated for the first 15 minutes before they scored a well deserved goal, which to be honest they were fortunate with. After that they panicked and became more open, thanks to Arteta's naivety. We rightly won the game.
Now I don't even remember any clear cut chances that they created, maybe barring the odegaard chance and Saliba's which was also not a clear cut chance. In fact we had more opportunities to make it 4 or 5-1. The pressing from Ronaldo ehich caused Ramsdale to make a mistake was a moment Bruno should have taken advantage and scored the goal. Same Fred had a golden opportunity to pass it to ronaldo who was one on one but he misplaced the pass. The fact remains Arsenal dominated the ball in the second half but it was United who were in dangerous positions.
I am not saying Arsenal were crap that day but in fact they played decent but let us stop pretending this was a prime Barca performance or a City performance. It was a typical latter year wenger performance. And if I were an Arsenal fan, rather than making excuses, I would be disappointed to lose the game to a manager who is 6 game old when my own manager has done feck all in the premier league and has been in the job for close to 3 years now.
Roy Keane isn't from Scotland.
Correct Pogue. Annoying me too.
Gooners bless
GoonerInASraightJacket
If Arsenal have a "serious" manager, what does your competition for top 4 in Chelsea and Spurs have? Chelsea and Spurs have managers who have won league titles, champions leagues, finished in the top 4, finished in the top 4 whilst simultaneously playing in Europe. Because ultimately it's these managers you'll need to out-compete to actually achieve anything.
Arsenal have a manager who's never managed before them, and who's greatest achievement to date is taking a team from 8th to 8th to 5th whilst having the advantage of no European football.
Arteta may prove to be a good manager at some point, but until he actually achieves something out of the ordinary I don't understand the plaudits.
In fairness, Arteta has managed a major trophy already,
That's something Tuchel couldn't do in his first few years as manager. Nor Conte for that matter, that took him a few years too.
So does Rodgers, and Harry Redknapp.
To be fair I forgot about the FA cup but the league performances over the course of years is a much better measure of what we're looking at in terms of the top 4 race.
Winning the fa Cup in the first few months is more comparable to De Matteo. And as pointed out the likes of Rodgers, Martinez, Laudrup, mcleish, Dalglish etc. have won domestic cups in recent memory.
One kick and chase moment
. Our goals were all perfectly executed team transitions, the first involved all 11 players. Yours was scrappy as feck and fell into Saka's lap from a deflection, which came about from a Varane miss hit pass.Yeah, that's true.
Although it took Tuchel a long time to win a league title, Conte took Bari up from serie B after three seasons as full manager.
Different scenarios of course, but I don't think many would say Arsenal were anywhere near winning the league when Arteta took over, they look a lot closer to doing so now, even if they are still miles away!
And they are/were pretty handy as managers too.
The arrogance of Arsenal fans here
Dude has spent close to 300 m+ in transfers and yet he hasn't got a CL place. You come to OT and play a high line and yet, the credit goes to Arteta for playing that way. That's some narrative. His naivety was exposed there.
Serious manager - my foot.
Dude has spent close to 300 m+ in transfers and yet he hasn't got a CL place. You come to OT and play a high line and yet, the credit goes to Arteta for playing that way. That's some narrative. His naivety was exposed there.
Serious manager - my foot.
Arteta is incredibly naive atm. He should have done better once Fred came on and their numerical advantage through the centre was being cut.
While playing Zinchenko so far inwards is ok at times but once numbers are not so loaded in their favour they are going to suffer like they did when teams exploit that space he leaves behind. For the second goal look at how Lokonga and Gabriel are dragged to the left to cover for him as Ronaldo occupies that space, allowing Bruno and Eriksen to find each other through the middle.
And then those subs were ridiculous moving to the back 3 at such an early stage and overloading the left with midfielders leaving the center again open for Eriksen.
Any decent team with players who can pick a pass will exploit such naivety.
While playing Zinchenko so far inwards is ok at times but once numbers are not so loaded in their favour they are going to suffer like they did when teams exploit that space he leaves behind. For the second goal look at how Lokonga and Gabriel are dragged to the left to cover for him as Ronaldo occupies that space, allowing Bruno and Eriksen to find each other through the middle.
And then those subs were ridiculous moving to the back 3 at such an early stage and overloading the left with midfielders leaving the center again open for Eriksen.
Any decent team with players who can pick a pass will exploit such naivety.
It’s becoming increasingly apparent you wouldn’t know a low block counter attacking game if it bit you on the arse.
Hint. You didn’t watch one on Sunday.
The arrogance of Arsenal fans here
Dude has spent close to 300 m+ in transfers and yet he hasn't got a CL place. You come to OT and play a high line and yet, the credit goes to Arteta for playing that way. That's some narrative. His naivety was exposed there.
Serious manager - my foot.
Ive just heard the Celtic manager being interviewed, and he was asked how his team would play tonight vs Real Madrid, and I found it interesting what he said.
He said he won't change his beliefs and the way the team is set up to play attacking, front foot football. He said what's the point in believing in that way of playing if you don't stick to it. You always want to test out your philosophy against the better teams, as that's a true gauge of where you are as a team. Sitting back, playing a different negative way, that's not a true reflection of where you are.
And if it doesn't work out, then you go back, work on improving, and hope next time you play them you are a bit better.
Found that a rather interesting take.
Which isn't what Arteta did in the last 20mn.
That's not true. Our first goal was not a counter attack, it was the style Ten Hag is slowly integrating and teaching our squad, building play and attack leading to a beautiful goal that involved much of the team organized around how he likes to build phases of play.
It is also important to remember that we were on top for the first part of the match before Arsenal took control. Given our response after you equalised, i wonder if we were instructed to sit back and soak up pressure after taking the lead. I'd argue that the third goal didn't come against the run of play either because we had started countering very effectively, and your excellent dominance and pressure had subsided as you appeared a bit shellshocked/deflated after the second.
So 1 goal in 3 against the run of play i reckon.
If there was any proof that Arteta has successfully lowered expectations at your club, it's taking some inspiration from Celtic when playing Real Madrid.
It's not inspiration, it's an insight to certain managers thinking, and a point of view I hadn't really thought about.
I thought it was interesting enough on here to be discussed and get some views on it, but obviously we are still on slagging Arteta and Arsenal mode on the Caf, so keep going.
If you posted it in here, then you obviously view it as having some relevance to Arteta (which I fail to comprehend, especially in light of Sunday). If you thought it interesting in itself, which it isn't really (it's relatively basic philosophy vs pragmatism which has been done to death), then you could have created a thread on it.
What insight do you think applies from that in a thread discussing Arteta’s capabilities as a manager?
The relevance was that I posted this morning thinking that we should have set up to be more solid, perhaps changed the way we had been playing to sit a little deeper and not leave space in behind, with that would mean conceding ground and some territory of course.
However, if this is the way Arteta wants us to play going forward, im asking myself if I'm wrong to want to play in a more pragmatic way. So yeah, it's the philosophy vs pragmaticsm like you say, I apologise its been done to death and I've missed it. Like I said, carry on with the Arteta bashing, that's a new topic in here.
Instead of some fantasy stories, I will give you a fact. Pep got done by Ole 2 times who was very stubborn in how he wants to play. But he changed the style after that and we haven't been able to beat them since then. We are playing City in couple of weeks and you can see how Pep would play.
So calm down a bit. Arteta may become a great manager at some point but at this point he is still a rookie who has achieved feck all till now. Especially given he saw how we played against Liverpool, he should have had the plans to counter that.
Im not claiming Arteta to be a great manager FFS. I'm not claiming Ange Postecoglu to be a great either (although I do find his methods interesting as much as it pains me to say it as a Rangers fan).
As was mentioned, I'm taking about philosophy vs pragmatism, mentioning how I previously had wanted Arteta to be more pragmatic. Maybe perhaps like we played in the 0-1 game a couple of years back.
Thought it was an interesting discussion. Wish I hadn't bothered. Arteta is a clown. Carry on.
Sorry, I couldn't get further past this comment
So to be clear - Arteta wasn't naive, he just made a set of changes that completely disrupted the flow of your team, which when combined with not reacting to our changes subsequently cost you the game?
Even beyond that, your somehow managing to project your view of a good 20 minute period on to the entirety of the game. Arsenal were absolutely on top from the 45th for about 20 minutes or so.
What you're struggling to understand about the remainder of the game is that possesion =/= 'domination'. Aside from that period in the game Arsenal were restricted to one or two half chances at best, while realistically you could have just as easily conceded an additional 2 goals in the final 30 minutes of the match.
The worry for you should be just how easily your 'dominant' team could have conceded 4 or 5 goals to a United team finding their feet 6 games in to the manager's new reign. God help you if you do end up back in the CL again.
So he's too strong for Arsenal. Maybe we can finally see the best of him at Barca or City.
Ole got 4 wins against City as bizarre as it sounds (3 league, 1 cup leg)
His last win around March 2021 was our most emphatic win, should have scored more that day.