I think they (PGMOL) need to rethink their whole "clear and obvious error" mantra, because they are using VAR for anything but. VAR should be for off the ball things that were missed (like a stray elbow), seeing whether a challenge should be upgraded to a red, and when a referee somehow does not see a penalty shout incident. In this case, the ref saw it and did not award a pen, play continued.
Michael Oliver
- Thread starter stubie
- Start date
I believe when the ref is called over to have a look comm with the VAR chief should be void until a decision is made. Also he should be given 30 seconds. If it’s clear and obvious 30 seconds will be enough to confirm either way.
Agree, but even less if it truly is clear and obvious, like one replay should prove the VAR's point. If they have to view multiple angles and in extreme slo-mo, it was never clear and obvious.
It can’t be that Oliver’s economy isn’t scrutinized by now? You just don’t do stuff like that just because of fandom.
That was at the very least a yellow card offence.
All these hours later and I'm still fecking raging at the VAR decision against us.
If sky are really interested in controversy, why don’t they get G Nev to question Oliver’s history and motives, in view of his highly questionable connections with City owners and even Newcastle, for that matter.
He is terrible. Genuinely courts controversy and makes asinine decisions.
We had him in our home game v City last year. Kovacic makes two leg crunchers but Oliver chooses not to issue a yellow on the basis he 'didn't want to influence the game'. 12 months later, he cant get a second yellow out for Trossard quick enough after Trossard 'delayed the restart'. So he showed latitude to Man City for a leg cruncher on Declan Rice, but shows no latitude to Trossard for 'delaying the restart'. What happened to not wanting to influence the game.
Blatant handball in the FA Cup semi final by Grealish to deflect a Palmer free kick. He was even on VAR when he called in a soft penalty at Old Trafford for a soft tug on Rodri. He was refereeing the match at Anfield where he didnt award a penalty to Liverpool for the Doku kick on MacAllister.
Everywhere he goes, decisions of his aid Man City and kneecap their rivals. And yes, he has a side hustle in the UAE. If this were politics or business the watchdogs would be all over it about the obvious conflict of interest that is yielding tangible results.
You get called a conspiracy theorist if you make the connection. But it not a conspiracy at all, its a fact, Michael Oliver has a UAE side hustle and is renumerated by entities outside the PL. If that were John Stones on Danny Ings, would he send the referee to the VAR? Of course not. He has a long precedent of favor Man City and stiffing their rivals.
He should be investigated, and not by the Premier League, but by MI5
We had him in our home game v City last year. Kovacic makes two leg crunchers but Oliver chooses not to issue a yellow on the basis he 'didn't want to influence the game'. 12 months later, he cant get a second yellow out for Trossard quick enough after Trossard 'delayed the restart'. So he showed latitude to Man City for a leg cruncher on Declan Rice, but shows no latitude to Trossard for 'delaying the restart'. What happened to not wanting to influence the game.
Blatant handball in the FA Cup semi final by Grealish to deflect a Palmer free kick. He was even on VAR when he called in a soft penalty at Old Trafford for a soft tug on Rodri. He was refereeing the match at Anfield where he didnt award a penalty to Liverpool for the Doku kick on MacAllister.
Everywhere he goes, decisions of his aid Man City and kneecap their rivals. And yes, he has a side hustle in the UAE. If this were politics or business the watchdogs would be all over it about the obvious conflict of interest that is yielding tangible results.
You get called a conspiracy theorist if you make the connection. But it not a conspiracy at all, its a fact, Michael Oliver has a UAE side hustle and is renumerated by entities outside the PL. If that were John Stones on Danny Ings, would he send the referee to the VAR? Of course not. He has a long precedent of favor Man City and stiffing their rivals.
He should be investigated, and not by the Premier League, but by MI5
Quiz question, When was the last time Newcastle Oliver gave a contentious decision against Man City?
I don;t know the answer, but my learned colleagues on here might know the answer.
I don;t know the answer, but my learned colleagues on here might know the answer.
And that's without any reference to his anti Manchester United corruption. The man must be sacked today and hauled before a tribunal charged with corruption.
If I made the mistake he did, I'd be gone (certainly in some of the places I've worked over the decades)
He had a point, and the UAE stuff needs looking into, but you could probably pull up lots of other Michael Oliver blunders relating to other clubs. He’s just a very, very poor official.
Is he getting his Mrs to go bookies for him to load up on United defeats to boost his income? Its the only explanation for his decisions against us. Literally hate the man.
Finally he universally confirmed how shit he is
The "No red cards in 47 matches" stat is the most damning.
Howard Webb, people's favourite conspiracy ref with us, also refereed 47 United matches and he still managed to give us 3 red cards in that time.
Every ref out there obviously have loads of decisions you could question. It is not an easy job.
But when you have Man City on trial for 130 wrongdoings, the shady sponsorship deals, multiple clubs ownership and what not, you would be surprised if their not so high morals stopped them from persuading refs. It would feel like par for the course for them. Oliver might not be the only one either.
Remember those Kovacic challenges, remember thinking, feck, what is he doing, he is off the pitch already!!! But nah, Oliver did not want to influence the game. Crazy stuff.
I've always thought he is a rubbish ref but listen to the likes of Gary Neville, Michah Richards etc they seem to think he's the best? Which is it
125 pages on a ref! Society has decayed.
This post is as erratic as Oliver's refereeing.
He's such a terrible ref. It's a mix of just incompetence, bias in favour of City and Newcastle, and the fact he just genuinely hates us. It amounts to a shit sandwich of ridiculousness and I have no idea how he can continue to referee.
It's not 50/50 for fecks sake. It's never a penalty in a million years, absolutely shocking take.
I’m absolutely fascinated to see if Howard Webb backs him in that little North Korea show he has with Michael Owen.
I think has no choice but to. This isn’t a heat of the moment decision sort of thing or VAR not able to overrule the referee on a subjective decision sort of process issue.
It’s a calculated decision by Oliver that went outside the VAR guidelines, took 3 minutes to find the incident, cut the footage down so context was removed, ignore other interfering factors like the handball and contact with ball by De Ligt and pressured the referee into making the decision by playing it over and over from the same angle at the same speed for over a minute.
It’s really really difficult to make excuses that it’s a genuine mistake for this one so it will be interesting to see if they try or just back Oliver blindly.
I think has no choice but to. This isn’t a heat of the moment decision sort of thing or VAR not able to overrule the referee on a subjective decision sort of process issue.
It’s a calculated decision by Oliver that went outside the VAR guidelines, took 3 minutes to find the incident, cut the footage down so context was removed, ignore other interfering factors like the handball and contact with ball by De Ligt and pressured the referee into making the decision by playing it over and over from the same angle at the same speed for over a minute.
It’s really really difficult to make excuses that it’s a genuine mistake for this one so it will be interesting to see if they try or just back Oliver blindly.
Bruno had his red card overturned for the decision against Spurs.
How does that happen in a world with VAR? How is that -allowed- to happen without an apology or repercussions for the people involved?
It's favoured Man City more than anyone if you want to get specific but the ridiculous decisions against Manchester United just this season alone pile up. And it was absolutely the same all season last season. I've still not got over that Dalot double yellow that will never happen again.
The following week to that double yellow, Darwin Nunez on a yellow card with Oliver refereeing booted the ball away and then gave Oliver an earful with no repercussions.
Nah, Webb seems quite comfortable in just saying "we got it wrong" and brushing it off. He'll laugh away any conspiracy talk (not that it will be raised to him anyway), and it'll be forgotten.
Does anyone have the stats for the amount of red cards and penalties for/against us in his career?
I know it’s bad. Our win rate under him is a joke too
I know it’s bad. Our win rate under him is a joke too
Yeah but my point is that getting this one wrong requires a lot more calculation and you have to ask why?. It’s not a genuine mistake in the heat of the moment or a byproduct of the new VAR regulations - it’s the opposite of that and if Oliver got it wrong it’s admitting that he was calculated in going rogue and ignoring all guidelines. It’s genuinely sinister and needs a proper explanation. I’ll be surprised if we hear the audio.
I thought it was the opposite, it's the weakest claim of any bias on it's own. 47 games is not much over a full season's worth of matches.
Teams receiveing zero red cards across a full season:
23/24 - Luton
22/23 - West Ham, Arsenal, Brighton, Bournemouth, Southampton, Forest
21/22 - none
20/21 - Liverpool, Burnley, Leicester
19/20 - Chelsea, Burnley Manchester United
18/19 - Chelsea
If these can play 38 with no red card with the full spectrum of refs it's the same as a team going 38 with the same ref and not getting any, unless we're saying all refs were favouring these specific teams in these specific seasons.
With no red cards in 18/19 and 19/20 we know Chelsea went at least 76 with no red cards, same wih Burnley combining 19/20 and 20/21.
If you top and tail the endings of previous seasons/beginnings of following seasons I'm sure quite a few more of these teams went 47+ without receiving a red card at all. Whether it's with one ref or all refs put together, going 47 matches without a red is very doable.
Indeed, the number itself doesn't really tell you anything. You'd have to analyse situations in those games, like the Kovacic one last season.
Enough is enough. There should be open discussions about his decisions and questions regarding his integrity.
I'm interested to know if there have been any decisions against city that could be seen as controversial?
Was looking at his stats:
Against us: 42 games, 78 yellow, 3 red gards
Arsenal recieved 7 red cards in 53 games and 94 yellow
City: 47 games, 64 yellow, 0 red
I agree with you that it’s the weakest argument, but considering everything together, it paints a really good picture
I'm interested to know if there have been any decisions against city that could be seen as controversial?
Was looking at his stats:
Against us: 42 games, 78 yellow, 3 red gards
Arsenal recieved 7 red cards in 53 games and 94 yellow
City: 47 games, 64 yellow, 0 red
I agree with you that it’s the weakest argument, but considering everything together, it paints a really good picture
It’s so obvious he hates United. Wasn’t he the ref that sent off Di Maria for putting his hand on his shoulder? Only to allow Joe Hart to push him and yell at him a week later? On top of that he is a genuinely crap ref. Have always thought this, even when watching him ref games we’re not involved in. He always wants to make it about himself and somehow has earned this reputation as a top referee. Absolutely baffling.
@deef and it was brushed over and laughed off in most circles that Fernandinho and Rodri make basically 3-4 yellow card challenges every game (stopping counters mainly) and never got carded, meanwhile when Arsenal make one the other week it's a red card somehow, and back when we had Herrera he would be booked instantly the first time he did it.
At this point it's WWE.
At this point it's WWE.
It doesn’t paint any picture at all. This is all just noise. It only takes one or two particularly dirty or clumsy (looking at you, Harry Maguire) players to distort the number of cards between two different teams, even if the same referee was in charge of every game. And that’s without even getting into the fact that a high possession team like City will be on the ball much longer, hence having less opportunities to tackle/foul than a team like modern day United.
As I said, these stats alone could be argued as reasonable, but the eye test and the questionable decisions suggest otherwise.
and this (it is not like all city players are saints):
I agree with you, I'm just saying that Webb will disregard it as being an "oops we got it wrong, it's human that happens" and considering the level of challenge he gets from the media, that's as far as it will go. He should be challenged at a granular level on it, as should Oliver's background with reffing Utd games, but it simply won't be, because the media have no interest (or the level) to do so.
I have a feeling all these forum posts, tweets, youtube videos etc, on how much of a cnut Oliver is, is exactly what he wanted.
Yep. They handpicked Owen as his interrogator for exactly that reason. He doesn’t push back on anything.
- Howard, could I get your views on this question that was put to me - should teams that score more goals than the other team always win, or do you think there's instances where a team that scores more goals than the other team shouldn't win? It's a tricky one, so you can take a couple of minutes if you want.
Are you saying he's a masochist?