[Leethal]

How many of those 86.6% are progressive passes and passes between the lines? His breaking up play was OK tonight, however, on the ball his passing stats are skewed by sideways and backwards passes that offer nothing to the team.

Offer nothing? If you don’t count keeping hold of possession nothing, you’d be right.

Also, wasn’t it Ugarte winning the ball at the initial phase of our goal tonight? And then fired a pass through their midfield? To Zirkzee? Granted, the pass wasn’t Scholes’esque, but he did what he was required (break up play) and it resulted in a goal. There has been other instances this season in his limited minutes that his tackle has resulted in a goal/counter-attack. Not to mention his outstanding block that 100% prevented a goal.

So in all his “shitness” it was his action that was the catalyst for our goal, and his action that prevented a certain goal for Fenerbache.

He’s doing his job. He’s relatively young for his position, and he will be fine.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Tonight he showed why we signed him. Hunted the ball down all game. Hopefully that performance gives him the confidence to kick on in the PL.

 

[saik]

He's going to be alright. This is how he always plays. If people were expecting some kind of playmaker who can spray pinpoint passes all around the ground then they are going to be sorely disappointed. A really good ball winner is all he really is.

 

[FriedClams]

the writing off of Ugarte already is hilarious

 

[In Absentia]

I think he will be okay. I’d like if we could getting him in a three with the two others offering a bit more on the ball, but we’ve just tied ourselves to Bruno and this horrid number 10 system for the foreseeable.

 

[The Red Thinker]

There are many here who never lived through the first 6 months of Vida and Evra in the premier league. They were all out of sorts because of the speed of the game in England. That affected their whole campaign across Europe too.

Ugarte is a monster defensively. He has all the building blocks to succeed. Give him time to integrate. He will come good.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Our general play (ball possession and ball movement) is way better with Case than Ugarte. Ugarte is better in defensive phase of course.

 

[Utuhu]

He is an old fashioned aggressive ball winner. He wins the ball and pass it to midfield partner to progress with it.

He will be perfect in a midfield 3 with two creative and mobile CMs ahead of him.

 

[devilsadvoca8]

He is an old fashioned aggressive ball winner. He wins the ball and pass it to midfield partner to progress with it.

He will be perfect in a midfield 3 with two creative and mobile CMs ahead of him.

Put him behind two 8s and we are golden. This whole no 10 nonsense will keep us open all season.

 

[Lyng]

Tonight he showed why we signed him. Hunted the ball down all game. Hopefully that performance gives him the confidence to kick on in the PL.

Requires our manager to pick him no?

 

[GoldanoGraham]

There are many here who never lived through the first 6 months of Vida and Evra in the premier league. They were all out of sorts because of the speed of the game in England. That affected their whole campaign across Europe too.

Ugarte is a monster defensively. He has all the building blocks to succeed. Give him time to integrate. He will come good.

Yes I remember that well - wasn’t Evra hooked at half time on his debut as he was run ragged.

Takes time to adjust, Fergie knew that but he kept faith to get them up to speed as quick as possible.

ETH seems to ditch some players after a bad performance and I think that contributes to their confidence.

I seriously question the man management of some players by ETH. Just find it baffling.

Thought Ugarte did well last night. That probably means he will be dropped for Sunday.

 

[statpadder]

Yes I remember that well - wasn’t Evra hooked at half time on his debut as he was run ragged.

Takes time to adjust, Fergie knew that but he kept faith to get them up to speed as quick as possible.

ETH seems to ditch some players after a bad performance and I think that contributes to their confidence.

I seriously question the man management of some players by ETH. Just find it baffling.

Thought Ugarte did well last night. That probably means he will be dropped for Sunday.

Oh not this again. By the way, the only players who genuinely looked liked struggling to match the pace in the last few years were Varane and Amrabat. When it looked like Amrabat was finally getting used to the pace of the premier league, we replaced him with an inferior player in Ugarte and paid 60m while doing that.

You just can’t make it up. Ugarte is not struggling with the pace of the league (and this is the Europa league btw) - he is just incredibly weak and lacks quality on the ball. It is so easy to see. The guy passes with the laces most of the time and can’t run with the ball 5 meters ffs. He has no long shot, no ability to pass b/w the lines, no composure under pressure, no power or technique to play diagonals. Just an overall limited, average footballer. Cleverly had more in his locker guys.

This is the most disappointed I have been watching our football. The squad is littered with dross and mediocrity. Even with the likes of Martial and Fred, you knew on their day they were class (even if the days were few). But with this squad the ceiling is just so low

 

[pascell]

Offer nothing? If you don’t count keeping hold of possession nothing, you’d be right.

Also, wasn’t it Ugarte winning the ball at the initial phase of our goal tonight? And then fired a pass through their midfield? To Zirkzee? Granted, the pass wasn’t Scholes’esque, but he did what he was required (break up play) and it resulted in a goal. There has been other instances this season in his limited minutes that his tackle has resulted in a goal/counter-attack. Not to mention his outstanding block that 100% prevented a goal.

So in all his “shitness” it was his action that was the catalyst for our goal, and his action that prevented a certain goal for Fenerbache.

He’s doing his job. He’s relatively young for his position, and he will be fine.

When teams are sitting in and opening us up on the counter, sideways and backwards passes don't offer anything, just passing on responsibility to another player to try and open up the opposition.

I'm not questioning his defensive actions, they did save us from conceding, it's on the ball I feel he's being too conservative.

 

[Highfather_24]

First time I was lowkey impressed by his performance. Onwards.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

He will get credit as the season progresses because he's a trier in a side where abysmal defending, individual brainfarts and marking with the eyes are the norm.

He should also be careful because, on the island, that incident will be given as a penalty against us nine times out of ten.

I laughed a bit when he managed to foul someone while trying to pass the ball. But, i guess, that's where we are now. Onwards and upwards...

 

[Bestofthebest]

Ugarte was fine last night, especially considering how little he has played in the last year. Not happy with his fee but hey this is Utd, and nothing to do with the player.

 

[pocco]

He's not a footballer at all really, it's ok to say people are jumping to conclusions but the writing was on the wall before we signed him. These things have been known about him, and that's why PSG flogged him after a season.

Like I said when we signed him, he'll have some decent games just breaking up play and rolling it 5 yards to somebody else, but we'll only go so far with that. And the better teams will murder him, as Spurs showed. An aggressive midfielder who lacks positional sense is a dream for good players, suck him in and play past him. Easy work.

I see people get on Casemiro's back, but even now he is a much better player than Ugarte. It's not even close.

 

[Grand Vizier]

He's not a footballer at all really, it's ok to say people are jumping to conclusions but the writing was on the wall before we signed him. These things have been known about him, and that's why PSG flogged him after a season.

Like I said when we signed him, he'll have some decent games just breaking up play and rolling it 5 yards to somebody else, but we'll only go so far with that. And the better teams will murder him, as Spurs showed. An aggressive midfielder who lacks positional sense is a dream for good players, suck him in and play past him. Easy work.

I see people get on Casemiro's back, but even now he is a much better player than Ugarte. It's not even close.

He isn't a footballer at all, he just plays for Manchester United and the Uruguayan national team with a history in Sporting and PSG.

 

[TR1LL]

You can see how he racks up so many interceptions and tops charts in that respect but he seems very slow, no urgency about his game at all. Was told he's Kante like but Kante whilst also being an extremely effective ball winner, you could see him covering the pitch with urgency which made him a nuisance for the oppo.

Think the commo got it spot on during the game that United's midfield is just not dynamic whoever you put in there. Would like to see him under another manager but i'm not holding much hope.

 

[pocco]

He isn't a footballer at all, he just plays for Manchester United and the Uruguayan national team with a history in Sporting and PSG.

You know what I mean, it's a turn of phrase.

 

[Oranges038]

He wasn't terrible, great goal line block.

But he needs to do better with his overall midfield play.

 

[Grand Vizier]

You know what I mean, it's a turn of phrase.

I know what you meant, I just don't think qualities should be limited to excellent passing, dribbling or goal scoring/assisting to be labelled a footballer. If he is able to win the ball back by himself, pass it to someone who can do something productive with it, shouldn't he be given credit for starting that attack in the first place?
After all, football teams and its players should play to each others strengths, and make the decision that benefits the team the most.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

He's not a footballer at all really, it's ok to say people are jumping to conclusions but the writing was on the wall before we signed him. These things have been known about him, and that's why PSG flogged him after a season.

Like I said when we signed him, he'll have some decent games just breaking up play and rolling it 5 yards to somebody else, but we'll only go so far with that. And the better teams will murder him, as Spurs showed. An aggressive midfielder who lacks positional sense is a dream for good players, suck him in and play past him. Easy work.

I see people get on Casemiro's back, but even now he is a much better player than Ugarte. It's not even close.

The more you think about it, the more it baffles your mind. I mean, the task at hand was to find upgrades on freaking Fred/Amrabat and the nonentity that was Martial. Eighty million pounds later, we have Ugarte and Zirkzee. Only at United. No wonder we offer the likes of Rashford and Bruno earth and water to keep them at the club.

 

[poleglass red]

Oh not this again. By the way, the only players who genuinely looked liked struggling to match the pace in the last few years were Varane and Amrabat. When it looked like Amrabat was finally getting used to the pace of the premier league, we replaced him with an inferior player in Ugarte and paid 60m while doing that.

You just can’t make it up. Ugarte is not struggling with the pace of the league (and this is the Europa league btw) - he is just incredibly weak and lacks quality on the ball. It is so easy to see. The guy passes with the laces most of the time and can’t run with the ball 5 meters ffs. He has no long shot, no ability to pass b/w the lines, no composure under pressure, no power or technique to play diagonals. Just an overall limited, average footballer. Cleverly had more in his locker guys.

This is the most disappointed I have been watching our football. The squad is littered with dross and mediocrity. Even with the likes of Martial and Fred, you knew on their day they were class (even if the days were few). But with this squad the ceiling is just so low

didn't actually watch last night's game live so can't comment on his performance, but on the highlighted part, he made an excellent run late on v Brentford in last game. Interesting you mention Amrabat, he also came to us with no preseason, like Ugarte. It takes a while to adjust to a new team, especially when you aren't match fit. Jury is certainly out on Ugarte, but let's see him a settled team when he's adjusted and actually match fit. Last night we had Zirkzee up front who's not a number 9, we had a full back playing as a 10, and Lindelof as centre half. That formation was all over the show and it showed in a disjointed performance by all accounts. Looking at the highlights, he made a terrific goal line clearance and won the ball that started the move for the goal. It's the nature of the beast, but had we won that game, people would have been mentioning that, how many times has Bruno been pants, but either scores a goal or assists and that masks his abject performance. The game on Sunday should be a better barometer of where he's at, we'll have a more balanced team for that.

 

[SungSam7]

He is an old fashioned aggressive ball winner. He wins the ball and pass it to midfield partner to progress with it.

He will be perfect in a midfield 3 with two creative and mobile CMs ahead of him.

Did you see him pass it sidewards? I only saw him pass it backwards.... even under no pressure he passed it backwards.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

Who’d have thought. The one player ten hag didn’t hand pick will become our best summer signing

 

[Grand Vizier]

Did you see him pass it sidewards? I only saw him pass it backwards.... even under no pressure he passed it backwards.

Why are you making things up? He literally started the attack for our first goal with a brilliant forward pass to Zirkzee.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Give him a decent 6/10 for his performance last night.

 

[Highfather_24]

Did you see him pass it sidewards? I only saw him pass it backwards.... even under no pressure he passed it backwards.

Listen, anyone who has ever seen him play before, already knew this. I went mad over the summer telling people that he's not the profile we need(pure ball winner who doesnt do anything else), and that his profile is not something you see a lot in really top teams.

Y'all need to make peace with that. He's not a midfielder who wants to get on the ball, he's someone who wins it back.

Does buying players who have such huge gaps in their ability one of the reasons we are unbalanced/shit? Yes.

 

[Lash]

Much better from him, needs to keep improving, but this is a step in the right direction. Not an easy place to play, especially when he's still settling in.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Requires our manager to pick him no?

He was slowly bedding him in. I think he'll be a mainstay ahead of Casemiro now.

 

[Mike Smalling]

At least he does some things well. He still hasn't really gotten a run in the team, so I find it hard to judge him yet. A few more starts in the Premier League would be good.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Put him behind two 8s and we are golden. This whole no 10 nonsense will keep us open all season.

It all depends on someone having the balls to drop Bruno.

Eriksen is our in form player, he also plays 10 in a more disciplined way - I'd just stick Ugarte with Case, far from ideal, and have Eriksen drifting as the third midfielder. We will have the same issues with mobility whatever combination we pick but at least that midfield will be more compact and I feel Eriksen picks the best passing option 9 times out of 10 and rarely tries hit and hope shots. If we stop letting teams counter us so often, we will look a lot better.

 

[LDUred]

It's pointless making sweeping judgements about players who've just been signed.

Onana is probably our best and most consistent player this season, yet last season was very erratic for him in terms of performances.

With Ugarte, it will take him time to meld into the team, especially due to Ten Hag's flawed style. But defensively he clearly has something to offer the team, and that is what he was brought in to do. He needs to be playing not as a number 8 but as a number 6.

 

[Lyng]

He was slowly bedding him in. I think he'll be a mainstay ahead of Casemiro now.

I hope you are right.

 

[ty09cali]

That Ugarte-Casemiro-Erikson midfield in the second half controlled the game. Might be an option for games against away game bigger opponents.

 

[MaMa given red]

He is an old fashioned aggressive ball winner. He wins the ball and pass it to midfield partner to progress with it.

He will be perfect in a midfield 3 with two creative and mobile CMs ahead of him.

I think you need more than this to be a success in the Premier League now though.

To be capable of winning leagues and Champions Leagues you can't afford to carry a player in midfield that is pretty limited on the ball.

I compare him to Rodri, Rice, Gravenberch and he's just not at the same level.

He will do a job in some games, but I don't see him as a long term solution.

 

[quadrant]

I have a different view on Ugarte to be honest. Its a problem that we've had for ages, which is that the entire team is so dysfunctional we end up thinking we need a one-man army to solve it. Its not enough to have a good screen for the back four, we need Ugarte to be Rodri, someone who can play as both a screen to the back four and a world class deep lying playmaker at once. When in fact, most teams only have a couple of players that can do multiple different roles with that level of excellence, because they're so incredibly rare. Usually you either get someone who can specialise in one area, or who are "merely" good in several areas.

The reality is that in a balanced squad, there's plenty of room for specialist DMs. The problem last night was that the midfield as a whole was poor at both carrying and passing out of defense. However, we don't strictly need Ugarte to be the one that does that. We need a midfield, collectively, that can do it. As long as we're ticking all the boxes, there's plenty of ways to divide up the work.

Pep's use of Haaland is a prime example how you can have a specialist in your team if the rest of the team ticks the boxes you need. City will still have 70% possession in games where Haaland touches the ball a dozen times. They don't need a striker that can drop deep and get involved to maintain possession. Instead they have outstanding ball retention elsewhere in the squad.

We've had this issue for years, where the poor composition of the squad shines an unfavourable light on players within it. If we had 5 good midfielders in the squad, and could pick and choose when to use their talents according to the game, then Ugarte could be a great fit. But we don't. And given that players who excel at multiple different skills are as rare as hens teeth, the solution is not to keep looking for them forever, but instead to round out the squad so that collectively they do what's needed.

 

[Based Adnan]

You can give him all the time in the world. You don't suddenly develop on the ball ability at 23.

If it was a case of him showing at previous clubs he was good on the ball but not showing it here then I'd understand those saying give him time to settle. When the issue is the profile of the player being completely incorrect, time doesn't solve that.

 

[Grand Vizier]

You can give him all the time in the world. You don't suddenly develop on the ball ability at 23.

If it was a case of him showing at previous clubs he was good on the ball but not showing it here then I'd understand those saying give him time to settle. When the issue is the profile of the player being completely incorrect, time doesn't solve that.

What do you mean by incorrect? What profile were we after? I'd agree if you're talking about Joao Neves, but what other available defensive midfielders that are both excellent defensively and in possession is there? We have Mainoo as our B2B midfielder who is brilliant on the ball, but is so-so defensively and fairly slow as well. We were desperate for a ball winner, and that is what Ugarte is.