His English is not great and he went for a long name instead. Georginio Wijnaldum
Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.
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His English is not great and he went for a long name instead. Georginio Wijnaldum
Haven't been paying to close attention but please tell me Liverpool haven't replaced Moreno? I love watching that guy play for them.
Not in my book. For starters, you had the best striker in the league. Even if the rest of your squad was average (which it wasn't), even Brendan Rodgers almost managed to win the league with such a side. But on top of that, you had the Vidic-Ferdinand partnership for half the season, an improving De Gea and the likes of Rooney, Carrick, Nani, Giggs, Scholes and Kagawa. Even though some of those players were in the last year(s) of their career, don't tell me that's an average side. Add to that the fact that SAF could get the best out of all his players and you know why United won the title in 2013. The problem was that United wasn't prepared for life after SAF that year, and that's partly on him, but that squad was far from average.
Your bias is ridiculous. That last year in charge squad was horrendous and you know it.
Isn't Wijnaldum actually pretty good? Newcastle fans rated him.
As good as giggs and scholes were they were so old and used marginally. Kagawa was average. You also forget we had legends like cleverly play day in day out. The squad was horrible and you now it.
No, they can't wait to get rid of him. He never turned up in away games, his lack of effort is pretty appalling.
Comparisons with Pulis. That's more like it.
Thank you. I don't get to see many games now I'm in Japan and don't think I've ever seen him play.
I googled his name and it seemed positive.
I feel happier now you said he's shite.
Horrible
Okay then, I don't agree but not the thread to discuss that.Against Norwich, he's as good as Ronaldo. Against everyone else, he's a-bit wank.
Let's put it this way - would you swap your current squad with united's 2012-13 squad, if given a choice?Horrible
No because I wouldn't want any United legend at Liverpool. Ignoring that, it depends on the situation. If the squad could be managed by SAF for a couple of years, sure. If it's Moyes after next season, not in a million years but I'm saying that with the benefit of hindsight of course. There's quality throughout the squad but the only gripe I'd have with it is that it's too old to compete after a couple of years and a whole turnover of the squad has to be made, which is what United has done/tried to do in the last three years.
Besides, I already said that SAF made the mistake of leaving United unprepared for the years after his retirement but solely looking at your squad that season, it certainly wasn't average let alone horrible.
I can be dramatic sometimes.
Horrible squad. Jesus wept. What a load of shite.
But it is needed after some of the comments I'm seeing in here.
Why were you hoping that? Weird.
Meh, you might mock us for the " its Klopp the rest is irrelevant" theme but what else is there to do really? He's a manager with a proven track record of developing teams and young players. The signings that we've missed out on, Mor,Dembele,Guerreiro all ended up at Dortmund. It's not like Reus and the boys are banging on the door begging us to take them.
He's doing what he's always done, if we get top four this season, the profile of player he can attract might increase to Aubemayang pre-Dortmund levels, but unless the stars align perfectly we arent going to be signing world beaters ever.
As for the signings,
Karius - anything beats that other clown
Matip - Free, seems highly rated seems like hes going to start, aerial threat, might start fixing the set piece problems we have in both boxes.
Grujic - Decent debut, will play cup games unless he absolutely storms pre-season.
Mane - Adds something we didnt have, and adds balance.
Think thats it unless i forgot someone, as for the Wijnaldum link, gotta say its the most baffling to date, he adds goals for sure and god knows for that reason alone I want it done, but we need a ball playing CM, we need Dahoud or that profile of player and I sincerely hope this isn't at the expense of that. Wijnaldum is more a finisher than a B2B gundogan type. Or least thats all hes shown in the PL.
As for other incomings, a LB is a priority, if Klopp thinks he can coach a brain in to Moreno then goodluck to him but hes playing with fire, teams targeted him and Migs last season to tremendous and i mean fecking tremendous joy. LB and CM are the two problem areas of the squad
For me Klopp needs to get the balance right, thats the key, we already know we arent going to have superstars strutting around, he has to establish a coherent team structure which yields a stock team goal if you will, less moments of magic and more team goals. If he addresses the team balance and establishes that, then he can make the sum greater than the parts. Thats how he can get us in to the top four, its hard but not impossible. I dont think anybody should turn there nose down at the signings so far. Its important but theres several changes Klopp is going to make in conjunction with one another which will ultimately yield the team he wants.
Anyways as of right now, we need a CM ( Dahoud type) and a LB, do that and ill be happy enough to allow Klopp to do what he wants with the team, its on his head. His way was always going to be this, hes shown he can do it, now we just got to wait to see if he can replicate it this season.
I was pretty confident we would improve, and I like a competitive league tbh. As long as we win of course
That's fair enough.I was pretty confident we would improve, and I like a competitive league tbh. As long as we win of course
Personally I hope Liverpool sign loads of duds and finish 17th.
Out of all those managers though Klopp is the standout candidate to make an average squad win the league despite overwhelming odds against said money and squads.
Mourinho and Pep can't hold a candle to that record and bringing in third placed Poch in a two horse race is just insulting.
And never let it be forgotten: Mourinho with all his Chelsea wealth Finished Behind Rodgers. Yes let that sink in. Suarez or no Suarez. Mourinho holds the record of Finishing Behind Rodgers. So good it had to be said twice.
Which is fine if that's the position all those other managers were in but it's not. They all have strong squads and money to spend.
He overcame the stronger horse in a two horse race on the Bundesliga, he won't overcome 5 other strong horses in the EPL. On top of that, he's got to beat a much higher level of competition in the mid to lower table. He's got it all to do.
He'd be my favourite for the axe if I didn't think Liverpool were as fair with their managers or sensible with their expectations as the rest of the Top 8.
Every fan dreams of their club exceeding expectations and yes we probably do that more than most, because we have a higher expectation level, as a result of our history. I wasn't around in the 60s but Utds great team in that era built up an expectation level with Utd fans too. I can remember very clearly every single season in the 80s Utd fans telling me how they were going to win the league that year. Its part of being a big club with a glorious history. Once you start to think small and lower your expectations/hopes/dreams too far, you're beat.
So Liverpool get ridiculed & criticized for not being able to compete for the top class players. & then we get ridiculed & criticized for not signing top class players.
Anyone would think this a Manchester United website
Anyone would think this a Manchester United website
Could be worst, this could be RAWKAnyone would think this a Manchester United website
That kavlan signing is confusing. His best clubs to date have been AZ and Augsburg. He is 30, has no prior PL experience. At least caulker played for Spurs and Kolo for Arsenal and city.
In all fairness, on paper, you've had a much better squad than most teams over the past 3 seasons, & yet you've failed to mount a single serious title challenge. As for the high quality of managers on show next season. I alluded to the fact in a previous post that such a competitive league could well benefit the outsiders because the usual suspects will be taking points off each other on a regular basis. I really can't see any side running away with the league next season.
Moyes followed by Van Gaal happened.
Spurs finished above Manchester United and challenged for the league title last year, so that wouldn't be a bad table to sit at.
The league itself was won by Leicester City.
The notion that you need five years to build up a team to challenge is ridiculous; nor do you need to spend hundreds of millions of pounds each window.
I said teams like liverpool and spurs need 5 years nowadays to do that. Spurs have reset. You guys have approximately 4 left. 3 if Klopp discovers some hidden lewandowski.
He doesn't need to since top 4 is probably our goal this season. If you look at it that way, he only needs to overcome 2 horses of the 'big six' and that's certainly possible if you look at the state of some other contenders.
If you understand how Klopp is likely to set us up (4-3-3 or 4-2-1-3 or 4-3-2-1) then you'll understand how a player of Wijnaldum's ilk suits the system. Unless Coutinho or Firmino drop back as the point of those three then those three slots will be between Can / Grujic / Milner / Henderson / Wijnaldum. And I'd prefer those in bold. BTW he had 5 assists to Mane's 6 and both scored 11 goals in the PL last season, so not a bad recruit from adding to the goal tally either.
Our priorities have been covered already (Karius in goal, Matip in as CB and Mane for pace up front) now we need to address LB and CM (one or two players). In my book so far all our recruitments are improvements on the current incumbents. Unlike most United fans on here I was never expecting superstars and why would you when Klopp has consistently said that is not his style.
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You really don't know your stuff do you. He was voted their player of the season 2015/16.
I will wildly speculate that Grujic might do for the CM - I think he'll be playing games I really do. Something that isn't Milner/Hendo/Can esque would be a useful further addition, maybe 1-2 of those gets to leave next year. And there's Lucas of course...
Further up there's definitely talent in Firmino & Phil & Studge is a top, top player if he can regain top, top form in a normal kind of number of games. So NOT Studge then really... but the other 2 & Ings & erm... there were good results when Origi played last year too. Is there any hope for Markovic? <--- who is lightning quick allegedly, as is Mane, so that carries more threat than was there last year. Markovic is a complete dud for me, but I am very occasionally wrong. (Firmino for example, I must admit I was pretty scathing about him after the first 3 games I saw him).
It might be just be a season of squad-sorting cos the balance isn't right & most sane folks would probably rather Balotelli, Moreno, Benteke found the exit door, it's quite a big turnover that's on the cards. Do the obvious first is usually a good approach. New GK has arrived. Some of us un-secretly hope Klopp thinks he can do a transformation on Moreno but there are options if that amazingly doesn't work, just that none of them seem to be fit, and/or have been playing. I also want to wildly speculate that Brad Smith (with new contract) might get a chance in a proper game. New LB though = another obvious improvement. And Skrtel is gone, there's another.
As for the signings we don't know do we? It's Klopp first full season, Top 4 given the ££££ getting spent elsewhere & their management arrivals would be a significant achievement but if Leicester can win the League then anything looks like some sort of possibility. I can see them pushing for it.
Further up there's definitely talent in Firmino & Phil & Studge is a top, top player if he can regain top, top form in a normal kind of number of games. So NOT Studge then really... but the other 2 & Ings & erm... there were good results when Origi played last year too. Is there any hope for Markovic? <--- who is lightning quick allegedly, as is Mane, so that carries more threat than was there last year. Markovic is a complete dud for me, but I am very occasionally wrong. (Firmino for example, I must admit I was pretty scathing about him after the first 3 games I saw him).
It might be just be a season of squad-sorting cos the balance isn't right & most sane folks would probably rather Balotelli, Moreno, Benteke found the exit door, it's quite a big turnover that's on the cards. Do the obvious first is usually a good approach. New GK has arrived. Some of us un-secretly hope Klopp thinks he can do a transformation on Moreno but there are options if that amazingly doesn't work, just that none of them seem to be fit, and/or have been playing. I also want to wildly speculate that Brad Smith (with new contract) might get a chance in a proper game. New LB though = another obvious improvement. And Skrtel is gone,
there's another.As for the signings we don't know do we? It's Klopp first full season, Top 4 given the ££££ getting spent elsewhere & their management arrivals would be a significant achievement but if Leicester can win the League then anything looks like some sort of possibility. I can see them pushing for it.
I'm not sure strikers are top of the list as far as our needs go. Pretty sure we were the top scorers in the 2nd half of last season. Klopp's priority is to solidify the defence, because if he fails to address that particular problem, I fear a top 4 spot will be out of our reach again.
Article today says he's told 6 they can leave ... Balotelli, Benteke, Ilori, Markovic, Lucas and Bogdan, I'd expect Allen to follow them out of the door too. Hendo will probably follow next Summer if he continues to fail to recover his pre-injury form and Milner too though his flexibility is valuable. I can see this being a two Summer turnover whilst he implements his tactics.I will wildly speculate that Grujic might do for the CM - I think he'll be playing games I really do. Something that isn't Milner/Hendo/Can esque would be a useful further addition, maybe 1-2 of those gets to leave next year. And there's Lucas of course...
Further up there's definitely talent in Firmino & Phil & Studge is a top, top player if he can regain top, top form in a normal kind of number of games. So NOT Studge then really... but the other 2 & Ings & erm... there were good results when Origi played last year too. Is there any hope for Markovic? <--- who is lightning quick allegedly, as is Mane, so that carries more threat than was there last year. Markovic is a complete dud for me, but I am very occasionally wrong. (Firmino for example, I must admit I was pretty scathing about him after the first 3 games I saw him).
It might be just be a season of squad-sorting cos the balance isn't right & most sane folks would probably rather Balotelli, Moreno, Benteke found the exit door, it's quite a big turnover that's on the cards. Do the obvious first is usually a good approach. New GK has arrived. Some of us un-secretly hope Klopp thinks he can do a transformation on Moreno but there are options if that amazingly doesn't work, just that none of them seem to be fit, and/or have been playing. I also want to wildly speculate that Brad Smith (with new contract) might get a chance in a proper game. New LB though = another obvious improvement. And Skrtel is gone,
As for the signings we don't know do we? It's Klopp first full season, Top 4 given the ££££ getting spent elsewhere & their management arrivals would be a significant achievement but if Leicester can win the League then anything looks like some sort of possibility. I can see them pushing for it.
We simply must find a new LB next and just keep Moreno for games we are expected to dominate. However when Gomez recovers I will be more than happy to see him installed there (though long term his future probably lies at CB).
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So you think he has the defensive capablities to play in a two with Can and the all round game to play the Gundogan role?
One reason why I'm not keen. If he turned up more often Newcastle wouldn't be in the Championship.
On the other hand if it weren't for him they'd have been relegated far earlier. He's that kind of hot and cold player. More cold than hot for me.
The attack looks far better than last season : Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Origi, Sturridge and Ings (and maybe Wijnaldum). And yet even last season we had decent stats (posted by a kind soul here on RC):
Total Shots 15/16 (per game)
- Tottenham 17.3
- Liverpool 16.6
- Manchester City 16.2
- Arsenal 15.1
- West Ham 14.7
- Chelsea 13.8
- Arsenal 9.5
- Manchester City 8.9
- Tottenham 8.5
- Liverpool 8.1
- Southampton 7.9
- Leicester 7.6
- Tottenham 6.6
- Arsenal 5.6
- Manchester City 5.5
- Liverpool 5.3
- West Ham 4.9
- Leicester 4.7
- Manchester City 71
- Tottenham 68
- Leicester 67
- West Ham 64
- Arsenal 62
- Liverpool 62