Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

Rafateria said:
5th/6th CB is a great way to isolate a young player and ensure they don't progress from lack of games/learning experiences. Most young CBs start their careers as FB or DM (e.g. Carra but also Zouma, Chambers etc. etc.) until deemed strong enough and experienced enough to be trusted with such a key position. Gomez' versatility gives him an edge in that respect in that he can comfortably play at LB, RB or even CB if required (I thought he was, for the greater part, excellent in his games at LB, which is why he continued there until his injury).
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If Klopp believes in him and hes good enough then his talent will ensure that he makes it in to the side one way or another. If he has the potential we believe he has then he'll easily surpass someone like Klavan. Young players if theyre good enough tend to play here and relatively consistently to, i.e. Sterling.
Theres no danger of him being isolated at all.
 
Apart from Mane I haven't heard of any of the players they've signed/going to sign, expected more from them this window I must say
 
charlenefan said:
Apart from Mane I haven't heard of any of the players they've signed/going to sign, expected more from them this window I must say
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Was having this discussion with a Liverpool mate of mine and neither of us were that surprised by this. Granted I thought there would be something a bit more substantial given the standard of their current squad, but a brief look over Klopp's transfer record at Dortmund shows he does not go for established players. In all his seasons at Dortmund you saw him go for talented prospects from the German league, or relative unknowns from overseas.

The only time he arguably broke this trend was when he re-seigned Kagawa and brought in Immobile from Serie A. I'd say he has - throughout his career - been proven right the majority of his window dealings, so until we see his new signings in action I'd be holding judgement for now.
 
groovyalbert said:
Was having this discussion with a Liverpool mate of mine and neither of us were that surprised by this. Granted I thought there would be something a bit more substantial given the standard of their current squad, but a brief look over Klopp's transfer record at Dortmund shows he does not go for established players. In all his seasons at Dortmund you saw him go for talented prospects from the German league, or relative unknowns from overseas.

The only time he arguably broke this trend was when he re-seigned Kagawa and brought in Immobile from Serie A. I'd say he has - throughout his career - been proven right the majority of his window dealings, so until we see his new signings in action I'd be holding judgement for now.
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Mkhitaryan?
 
Liverpool fans better hope that Klopp is very good at polishing huge turds because for the life of me I can't see how their current squad of players (including that Newcastle player if he joins) can pip two of Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, United and Spurs to a CL spot next season.
 
Coutinho, Mane, sturridge are good enough to be part of a league winning effort in that front 6, however the other midfielders are not. They really need to get some quality in that area of the pitch or they are to struggle again. Why aren't they signing the likes of James Rodriguez instead of chopping up the money and making mike ashley's day?

Klopp had his best seasons when his team was flooded with quality. Reus, Gotze, Lewa, Hummels, Subotic, Kagawa and Gundogan were all sensational footballers. Trying to remake a team of that quality with second rate Newcastle footballers isn't going to happen anytime soon. I get the point that they themselves(most of them anyways) weren't well know when he got them, but what are the chances of that happening again? He failed miserably when that team was torn apart to get the best of the newer lads.

He's a great coach, but he's far from being Houdini. I think he's actually starting to believe the hype himself by his approach in this market.
 
As people are saying around here... that's the new market?

I'm not rating Mane as highly as some of you, but he did cost 34m... Klopp's record in the Bundesliga has never exceeded 20m! Crazy times eh.

On another note, it does seem that some of you want to see marquee signings more than us. :lol: Not that we don't want to, but we don't feel it's going to happen. Reminds me of that gif showing the culture of the different forums...
 
For example Matip is a good transfer. Cost nothing and it is a good player. But in general i do doubt Klopps personal transfer-aims a little bit, seems that at Dortmund the board had more influence on the grat transfers we made while Klopp was the coach. But nevertheless i think Liverpool will have a better season than the last, if Klopps Pressingsystem is fully instaled, it wil have an impact in the league.
 
groovyalbert said:
Was having this discussion with a Liverpool mate of mine and neither of us were that surprised by this. Granted I thought there would be something a bit more substantial given the standard of their current squad, but a brief look over Klopp's transfer record at Dortmund shows he does not go for established players. In all his seasons at Dortmund you saw him go for talented prospects from the German league, or relative unknowns from overseas.

The only time he arguably broke this trend was when he re-seigned Kagawa and brought in Immobile from Serie A. I'd say he has - throughout his career - been proven right the majority of his window dealings, so until we see his new signings in action I'd be holding judgement for now.
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One of the most logical, and considered, posts I've seen from a United supporter in this whole thread. Most people just seem to have just ignored Klopp's history and beat the "haven't heard of him" or 'expected better' (read : more expensive) drum.
 
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RooneyLegend said:
...........Klopp had his best seasons when his team was flooded with quality. Reus, Gotze, Lewa, Hummels, Subotic, Kagawa and Gundogan were all sensational footballers. Trying to remake a team of that quality with second rate Newcastle footballers isn't going to happen anytime soon. I get the point that they themselves(most of them anyways) weren't well know when he got them, but what are the chances of that happening again?............
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And with one exception those players were not household names when he bought them. Neither were Kante, Mahrez, Drinkwater (though United fans should remember him), Vardy etc. last season. Just because people here aren't aware of the players, or they aren't of international renown, doesn't mean they aren't more than competent for the job they've been brought in to do, all top players meet that criteria at some stage of their careers. Veron, Di Maria, Shevchenko, Torres (at Chelsea), Falcao etc. are proof that money doesn't always buy what you are expecting.
 
Wooly Red said:
As people are saying around here... that's the new market?

I'm not rating Mane as highly as some of you, but he did cost 34m... Klopp's record in the Bundesliga has never exceeded 20m! Crazy times eh.
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I saw just today one commentator saying that if transfer fees were adjusted for inflation then Mane would only just make the Top 100. He said he is planning to publish his list soon so it should prove to be interesting reading. And it was £30m plus add-ons, as everyone connected to LFC (and not Sky etc. who like to post only the highest possible figure) has said.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Klopp had his best seasons when his team was flooded with quality. Reus, Gotze, Lewa, Hummels, Subotic, Kagawa and Gundogan were all sensational footballers. Trying to remake a team of that quality with second rate Newcastle footballers isn't going to happen anytime soon. I get the point that they themselves(most of them anyways) weren't well know when he got them, but what are the chances of that happening again? He failed miserably when that team was torn apart to get the best of the newer lads.
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This quality you speak of was not existing in the first place. With the exeption of Reus, his talent was obvious for the whole league, no one of the players were well known. We got Shinji from the second japanese league and so on, Götze from our youth, Lewa from the polish league,Hummels from Buy€rn,Gündogan from a club in relegation. Klopp made that quality out of all these players! You speak like we bought for him topplayers where every club was after them. That is simply not true.
 
Rafateria said:
One of the most logical, and considered, posts I've seen from a United supporter in this whole thread. Everyone else seems to have just ignored Klopp's history and beat the "haven't heard of him" or 'expected better' (read : more expensive) drum.
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Well, I was being subtle about it, but... I think after their recent transfers they expect everyone to be like them. :p
 
Personally, I'd be a bit bemused at signing 30 year-old Klaven whether it's considered a stop-gap signing as fourth choice or not. Their current centre back options are hardly that impressive as it is.

But by all means, revel in this signing Liverpool fans.
 
I find it strange that some people give Klopp credit for Dortmund players, as he didn't buy the players. zorc & co did. Same with Leicester. It's very well known that Steve Walsh is the man responsible for their buying and selling. Tottenham wouldn't have built their team as well without Paul Mitchell. Who came there after building Southamptons "great" team of the last few years. There are very few of the top teams that let the manager do their buying and selling. So don't compare anything of what Klopp does at Liverpool to what Dortmund did transfer-wise when he was their manager, it only makes you look like you don't know too much.
 
Glanville95 said:
Personally, I'd be a bit bemused at signing 30 year-old Klaven whether it's considered a stop-gap signing as fourth choice or not. Their current centre back options are hardly that impressive as it is.

But by all means, revel in this signing Liverpool fans.
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No one is revelling in it.

It's not something to worry too much about. He's a cheap back-up, that's all.
 
Did people expect Klopp to come in and spend big bucks? That has never been the way that he has operated, and without CL football or any proof that we will achieve that over the next few seasons, we aren't an attractive proposition to the cream of the crop right now.

I'd say we've had a fairly solid, if unspectacular window so far. Karius, Grujic and Matip for £10m~/less than we sold Ibe, could be fantastic business.

Mane and Wijnaldum are clearly talented and Klopp will feel he can help them step up a level. Their price tags are in alignment with the market right now. Klavan is a 4th/5th choice CB.

Happytom82 said:
I find it strange that some people give Klopp credit for Dortmund players, as he didn't buy the players. zorc & co did. Same with Leicester. It's very well known that Steve Walsh is the man responsible for their buying and selling. Tottenham wouldn't have built their team as well without Paul Mitchell. Who came there after building Southamptons "great" team of the last few years. There are very few of the top teams that let the manager do their buying and selling. So don't compare anything of what Klopp does at Liverpool to what Dortmund did transfer-wise when he was their manager, it only makes you look like you don't know too much.
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Zorc's been in place at Dortmund since 1999. Not until Klopp came in did the club enjoy any sustained success, in the market or elsewhere.

Managers are held responsible for signings, at any club - regardless of whether those signings fail or succeed. To suggest Klopp didn't play a large part in acquiring his side at Dortmund is silly.
 
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Happytom82 said:
I find it strange that some people give Klopp credit for Dortmund players, as he didn't buy the players. zorc & co did. Same with Leicester. It's very well known that Steve Walsh is the man responsible for their buying and selling. Tottenham wouldn't have built their team as well without Paul Mitchell. Who came there after building Southamptons "great" team of the last few years. There are very few of the top teams that let the manager do their buying and selling. So don't compare anything of what Klopp does at Liverpool to what Dortmund did transfer-wise when he was their manager, it only makes you look like you don't know too much.
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I find it strange that some people will go to lengths to deny Klopp had anything to do with the transfers (well not really, it is a United forum where many go to lengths to discredit simply because it is Liverpool. Understandable.). As with all clubs it was a team effort of which Klopp played a large part as most certainly the final arbiter. And (although of course much lower profile players) how about Mainz - do you want to give credit to someone else there too ? You should go and search this forum (forget which thread - Liverpool related no doubt) where a BVB fan gives a complete breakdown of the likely process at Dortmund and Klopp's involvement.
 
Rafateria said:
I find it strange that some people will go to lengths to deny Klopp had anything to do with the transfers (well not really, it is a United forum where many go to lengths to discredit simply because it is Liverpool. Understandable.). As with all clubs it was a team effort of which Klopp played a large part as most certainly the final arbiter. And (although of course much lower profile players) how about Mainz - do you want to give credit to someone else there too ? You should go and search this forum (forget which thread - Liverpool related no doubt) where a BVB fan gives a complete breakdown of the likely process at Dortmund and Klopp's involvement.
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By the same token, perhaps Brendan Rodgers should be absolved of the blame for signing Balotelli, Benteke, Lambert, Markovic et al. It was the transfer committee after all.
 
Rafateria said:
The attack looks far better than last season : Mane, Firmino, Coutinho, Origi, Sturridge and Ings (and maybe Wijnaldum). And yet even last season we had decent stats (posted by a kind soul here on RC):

Total Shots 15/16 (per game)
  1. Tottenham 17.3
  2. Liverpool 16.6
  3. Manchester City 16.2
  4. Arsenal 15.1
  5. West Ham 14.7
  6. Chelsea 13.8
Total Shots In Penalty Area 15/16 (per game)
  1. Arsenal 9.5
  2. Manchester City 8.9
  3. Tottenham 8.5
  4. Liverpool 8.1
  5. Southampton 7.9
  6. Leicester 7.6
Shots On Target 15/16 (per game)
  1. Tottenham 6.6
  2. Arsenal 5.6
  3. Manchester City 5.5
  4. Liverpool 5.3
  5. West Ham 4.9
  6. Leicester 4.7
Goals Scored 15/16

  1. Manchester City 71
  2. Tottenham 68
  3. Leicester 67
  4. West Ham 64
  5. Arsenal 62
  6. Liverpool 62
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Terrible stats for you to be honest. Tells us that Pool just kept firing whenever possible. The reason you were in top 6 goals scored list was rhe Saints' 1-6 meltdown.
 
Doesn't look like anyone was scoring many goals, LFC had 3-4 big wins at Soton, City, Norwich, is there another? that I can think of.

Thought @Dumbstar provided an interesting viewpoint up there (you don't have to agree with it!) and did he also say this thing about ''you sit off, we sit off'' tactics - a lot of that at the Euros certainly. Pressing & turnovers are the preferred way/source of goals now, is that it? Rather than coherent controlled attacking. And no one wants to leave themselves vulnerable to a quick break either, I don't think.

I said this before, LFC seemed prone to concede leads last year (when the press was off) & also primarily via individual errors too regularly. You have to presume Jurgen will seek to put a stop to both of these, again, obvious weaknesses. ''Leave Albie to me'' he is saying to his management team, :D.
 
montpelier said:
''Leave Albie to me'' he is saying to his management team, :D.
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DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN DUN!

(If he can do something, I will be amazed... might really start saying he's the best manager in the league)
 
Where will they finish next season?

I am predicting 6th going by the quality of players Klopp is bringing in.
 
Rafateria said:
One of the most logical, and considered, posts I've seen from a United supporter in this whole thread. Most people just seem to have just ignored Klopp's history and beat the "haven't heard of him" or 'expected better' (read : more expensive) drum.
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Or rather that we acknowledge Klopps previous experience isn't the same as that of the PL league with many more powerful teams in competition with Liverpool.

Of course Klopp might pull it off. Doesn't seem overly likely at present though.
 
Dumbstar said:
Which is fine if those managers that are spending vast sums were still in the Bundesliga, or even La Liga. See it goes both ways. You're using Klopp's marvellous record against him because of the league he's from yet you're overrating other managers that have just come off the plane from exactly the same league. If the PL was just about spending big to win big then we might as well go home and take the title back from Leicester.

Since Mourinho has finished his 'easy' leagues and come back to England he's been smacked with finishing behind Brendan (not sure if point rammed home? Tell me if you've had enough) and then relegation, or nearly if only he had stayed. Of course you can revise this all you like but he was 'home'. Then he shat on his own doorstep. No one else did it, it was his shit. So now he's moved three houses down to a house that needs a full renovation and the Polish builders are p*ssing him about while they roll around in his money.

Pep in his first season in England needs to find out first hand what Stoke, Southampton, West Ham, etc are all about. You can watch all the videos you want but you don't really find out until you play them. Klopp and LvG have had this rammed into them, ergo Klopp is now a season ahead of Pep. Same goes for Conte when he realises (too late) that 0-0 draws in this country are actually losses and not a point gained. You park the bus, we park the bus - that's how Houllier and LvG were beaten into submission.
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Are you really trying to down play what Mourinho has achieved in the game? His record in the PL is phenomenal and up there with Sir Alex.
 
Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City, Man Utd and Spurs all have comfortably better teams, and very good managers too, 6th place seems about their level.
 
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