Liverpool 2016/17 - Performance and chat thread.

montpelier said:
I dislike Can a lot but he is good (grimly effective) in straight lines & likely to be Big Chief Cock-knocker if some mad team buys Skrtel.

How does this super-press work when your front 4 is Studge, Phil, Firmino & Mane - just screams not doing it on cold midweek evenings away from home. But it does have some ability contained therein. Probably 3 of them & someone more unsung, bit more hardworking, Lallana for instance...

Full backs are OK once Flanno is back in the groove isn't it?

They're in a funny place though aren't they, only proper top quality players are definitely better than what they have already. Excepft for GK (done) & defence strengthened (done)
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We can't compete for top quality players - no CL, poor recent seasons and FSG have a fairly strict transfer and wages policy. We need to rely on Klopp's ability to get every drop out of what we have got and unearth some good players.

You make a very good point about the pressing game. Lallana is the best at it but his end product is poor (altho improved under Klopp) Firmino and Coutinho are decent at it and Studge is poor. Origi and Ings are more suited to it - but neither has the natural talent of Studge. Its a bit of a conundrum.
 
It seems we're in the market for a Midfielder, interest in Piotr Zielinski, Mahmoud Dahoud and Ruben Neves seem to be the most likely candidates. Interest in Zielinski seems to have cooled in the last week so maybe we've got some encouragement on Dahoud after he rejected a contract extension and also for some reason liked a photo of Klopp on instagram. Word is gladbach will be very hesitant to sell him though, seems to be highly rated on here but I'll admit I haven't seen much of any of these guys.

The last time we were interested in Neves there were fees of around £30 million touted, now it seems to have dropped to £17-£20 million. Anyone think we have a chance of landing any of these players, and would they be good enough to displace any of our current midfield?

I'm thinking Henderson/Milner in particular.
 
montpelier said:
I dislike Can a lot but he is good (grimly effective) in straight lines & likely to be Big Chief Cock-knocker if some mad team buys Skrtel.

How does this super-press work when your front 4 is Studge, Phil, Firmino & Mane - just screams not doing it on cold midweek evenings away from home. But it does have some ability contained therein. Probably 3 of them & someone more unsung, bit more hardworking, Lallana for instance...
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Firmino is one of the hardest working attackers you will find, defensively. Coutinho puts in a decent shift too. He's shown he can handle himself in a midfield three. Never really paid attention to Mane on it. Sturridge does whatever is the minimum he can get away with though.

Full backs are OK once Flanno is back in the groove isn't it?
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No. Think it is questionable if flanno has a groove to get back to. Even as back up. And Moreno is an abomination. One leftback will have to do, but we could do with a fullback more really.

They're in a funny place though aren't they, only proper top quality players are definitely better than what they have already. Excepft for GK (done) & defence strengthened (done).
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Yep. It's easy to move sideways from here, not so easy to move up. Good squad depth, few players I think are not good enough for the squad. Best exemplified by midfield. They are all good enough for the squad. It's only Can who looks like a player who can actually boss a midfield though.
 
ah well, I'd temporarily forgotten about Moreno, guess a new LB wouldn't do any harm then

although with a brain installed, Moreno could improve a lot, he's not totally hopeless, except at the thinking thing, & maybe tackling, that isn't always the best, :eek:
 
What do we think we're looking at for their first eleven? Something like this:

Karius
Clyne - Lovren - Matip - Hector?
Henderson - Can
Mane - Firmino - Coutinho
Sturridge

Subs: Mignolet; Sakho, Gomez; Milner, Allen, Lallana; Origi
​
Then the likes of Lucas, Flanagan, Grujic, Zielinski, Ibe and Ings in reverse.

Don't know much about some of the players they have signed or look likely too such as Karius, Grujic and Zielinski but I suppose they would very much be Klopp signings on a restricted budget in that sense. Scouring the German and Easter-European leagues for shrewd signings. I'm sure some will be successes, perhaps more so than noticeable players with pedigree such as Mane.
 
montpelier said:
I dislike Can a lot but he is good (grimly effective) in straight lines & likely to be Big Chief Cock-knocker if some mad team buys Skrtel.

How does this super-press work when your front 4 is Studge, Phil, Firmino & Mane - just screams not doing it on cold midweek evenings away from home. But it does have some ability contained therein. Probably 3 of them & someone more unsung, bit more hardworking, Lallana for instance...

Full backs are OK once Flanno is back in the groove isn't it?

They're in a funny place though aren't they, only proper top quality players are definitely better than what they have already. Excepft for GK (done) & defence strengthened (done).

I think they'll be strong at home & inconsistent away. Should be more resilient though.
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Pretty good summation bar the super-press bit when Firmino has proven to be one of the league's best pressers in both in Germany and England and Mane has a good reputation in that regard too (Austria and England - just check some of his match performances on youtube). Studge and Coutinho were both improving in that regard towards the end of last season but it should be noted it's more about trimming angles to force the direction of play than running around like a mad-man, which was the main change in Sturridge.

Karius

Clyne Matip Gomez De Sciglio
(OK just hopeful here - but it's odds-on a better LB than Moreno is inbound. If not then Gomez at LB and Lovren back in at CB unless Hummels can be persuaded) !

Milner Can
However I expect to see a lot of the 20 yr old Grujic too considering the comments made in Klopp's appeal to the FA for his work permit (given) and there's still a lot of interest (confirmed offers made and refused) re. another inbound CM. If Hendo can not start to replicate his form of a couple of seasons ago - and his injuries seem to indicate that's an issue and will be the case - then he's going to be just a squad filler unable to compete with the new midfielders. Milner works perfectly in a Klopp system and is under-rated by many but could/will be replaced if, as I expect, we get a stronger CM in. Can is still very young and improving in leaps and bounds. Given his Germany Euro experiences under Low, and Klopp's direction and coaching, I'd expect further big improvement this season.

Mane Firmino Coutinho

Studge
Origi and Ings will get a lot of pitch-time too and I wouldn't be surprised to see Gotze make a move if he's still at BM come the last couple of weeks of the transfer season. If not him then another (potentially young) striker as the Benteke money will come in useful).

Another battle for 4th methinks however the lack of European football could mean overachievement in the PL instead.
 
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As with the start of any new season there are far too many imponderables to even begin to say - with even a smidgen of certainty - just how any club is going to shape up over the course of the season. I'm expecting us, under Klopp, to continue with the high energy type of football we witnessed last time out. Just how far that gets over 38 matches is anyone's guess. But with no distraction of European football I'd be seriously disappointed if we weren't in contention for at least a CL spot come April next year. I'd be thinking of that bit in the film 'Life of Brian' when evaluating Jurgen Klopp: "He's not the messiah he's a very naughty boy".
 
I think they're four players away from being a serious contender next season. A CB, a couple of midfielders, and final third creator in chief. That, or they'll be hanging around where they've been in recent times. The stakes have been raised, if we don't finish in the top 4 it'll be a shock, spurs have continuity, Chelsea and city have secured top class managers. However they shouldn't be thinking of top 4's, they should be winning the damn thing. Let's not forget that everyone needs improvements cause of last seasons debacle, if they improve more than most its theirs for the taking.
 
montpelier said:
I dislike Can a lot but he is good (grimly effective) in straight lines & likely to be Big Chief Cock-knocker if some mad team buys Skrtel.

How does this super-press work when your front 4 is Studge, Phil, Firmino & Mane - just screams not doing it on cold midweek evenings away from home. But it does have some ability contained therein. Probably 3 of them & someone more unsung, bit more hardworking, Lallana for instance...

Full backs are OK once Flanno is back in the groove isn't it?

They're in a funny place though aren't they, only proper top quality players are definitely better than what they have already. Excepft for GK (done) & defence strengthened (done).

I think they'll be strong at home & inconsistent away. Should be more resilient though.
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Always admired the Liverpudlian way with nicknames. Can't believe you didn't say 'Skrtto', 'Coutio', and 'Lallano'. Also can't believe Klopp isn't using his Bundesliga know-how to hoover up major potential talents and other players he can properly Germanise. You fellas have got to admit that with what's coming from City, United, Chelsea and Spurs and Arsenal your current crop are nowhere near potent enough to do much outside the cups.
 
I think as far as transfers go for the moment it will be outgoings.

Skrtel > Fenerbache pretty much done
Canos > Norwich pretty much done
Ibe > Bournemouth (apparently he said goodbye to his team mates yesterday)
Balotelli > whoever (Klopp has told him he needs to find another club)
Benteke > Palace maybe (they still haven't increased their bid) - he still likely to leave
Bogdan > Wigan interested apparently

Klopp want's Zahoud for the midfield but having problems sorting out a deal, so that one gone a bit cold.

Still interest in Chilwell but no news on that at the moment

As others have said LB and CM we lack quality.
 
RooneyLegend said:
I think they're four players away from being a serious contender next season. A CB, a couple of midfielders, and final third creator in chief. That, or they'll be hanging around where they've been in recent times. The stakes have been raised, if we don't finish in the top 4 it'll be a shock, spurs have continuity, Chelsea and city have secured top class managers. However they shouldn't be thinking of top 4's, they should be winning the damn thing. Let's not forget that everyone needs improvements cause of last seasons debacle, if they improve more than most its theirs for the taking.
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And that's true for every team who finished in the top 10 last year maybe except for Stoke.
 
baanke laal said:
I'm sorry, but Can is a bang average midfielder. I hope Klopp relies on him because it's going to end up in disappointment.
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I think Can is a really decent player, he's still only 22 and I rate him above someone like Herrera.
Like everyone else, I think they desperately need a new LB.
I don't rate Henderson at all, even during his good season I thought a lot of the praise was overstated. He runs a lot.
 
Argh Guardian reporting Benteke might stay since we're playing hardball over his sale price: It's the £32.5m we paid or bust. I'd have taken Palace's offer of £27m with add-ons to £31.5m.
 
Wooly Red said:
Argh Guardian reporting Benteke might stay since we're playing hardball over his sale price: It's the £32.5m we paid or bust. I'd have taken Palace's offer of £27m with add-ons to £31.5m.
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I guess Liverpool are trying to call Palace's bluff here, which is drawing out the process but I would be very surprised that if he was still at Liverpool next season.
 
How do Liverpool fans feel about the Ibe move? It's a good fee but it's only a year ago that this guy was be touted as the next big thing. Could he go on to big things or was he just overhyped after losing Sterling?
 
Saw Grujic play against fleetwood. Looks like a very talented player. Mane's been quite good for them too in the last two friendlies.
 
rocks13 said:
How do Liverpool fans feel about the Ibe move? It's a good fee but it's only a year ago that this guy was be touted as the next big thing. Could he go on to big things or was he just overhyped after losing Sterling?
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Probably a bit overhyped but he could become a decent player if he gets enough game time.

The club obviously believes in him though considering the buy back and sell on clauses included in the deal with Bournemouth. Klopp wasn't going to play him much this season so selling him was the best thing to do for his development.
 
We have plenty of goals, and options, in attack. Hopefully we can get Dahoud in before the window's over.

rocks13 said:
How do Liverpool fans feel about the Ibe move? It's a good fee but it's only a year ago that this guy was be touted as the next big thing. Could he go on to big things or was he just overhyped after losing Sterling?
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Don't rate him.
 
Missed your game yesterday, it was even on Swedish television. How did it look?
 
rocks13 said:
How do Liverpool fans feel about the Ibe move? It's a good fee but it's only a year ago that this guy was be touted as the next big thing. Could he go on to big things or was he just overhyped after losing Sterling?
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I hope its true that we included a buyback clause. I worry we've been a bit too impatient with him.
 
Vanya said:
Saw Grujic play against fleetwood. Looks like a very talented player. Mane's been quite good for them too in the last two friendlies.
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Lost count of the amount of new signings, young kids, etc that have impressed pre-season but then failed to make the grade in matches that really matter. Even Lucas managed to find the net against the mighty Fleetwood.
 
rocks13 said:
How do Liverpool fans feel about the Ibe move? It's a good fee but it's only a year ago that this guy was be touted as the next big thing. Could he go on to big things or was he just overhyped after losing Sterling?
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It's a tough one. My gut feeling is that he'll do quite well at a club like Bournemouth & will become a key player for them. I'm not convinced though he has what it takes, just yet, to play consistently for a club that sets itself much higher targets. One good game out of every three or four will probably be good enough for his new club. But we need a higher level of performance & consistency. Something he's never really shown at Liverpool.
 
kr0nix said:
I guess Liverpool are trying to call Palace's bluff here, which is drawing out the process but I would be very surprised that if he was still at Liverpool next season.
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I hope so. We definitely could do with the money.

rocks13 said:
How do Liverpool fans feel about the Ibe move? It's a good fee but it's only a year ago that this guy was be touted as the next big thing. Could he go on to big things or was he just overhyped after losing Sterling?
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Didn't make the jump, it seems. It's a lot of money for someone who hasn't had a lot of game time, so if there's a buyback clause it's a good deal for us.
 
redman5 said:
It's a tough one. My gut feeling is that he'll do quite well at a club like Bournemouth & will become a key player for them. I'm not convinced though he has what it takes, just yet, to play consistently for a club that sets itself much higher targets. One good game out of every three or four will probably be good enough for his new club. But we need a higher level of performance & consistency. Something he's never really shown at Liverpool.
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He’s only 20 though, not many are consistent at that age and there’s a lot of time for improvements. I’m surprised Pool didn’t loan him. Then again, if Klopp feels he ain’t gonna be good enough then why keep him.
 
Definitely see them getting 4th spot this year. Then again, I also see United, Chelsea, Man City and Arsenal (in no particular order) getting in the top 4 too, so I don't really know.
 
CB Crisis

Before the season has even started. Absolutely zero cover (bar Lucas or U21s).

Gomez has done his Achilles _ I really really feel sorry for the lad. A real class player in there but he may never come back from these two injuries. Out for 9 months.
Sakho - out injured for a month or two.
Toure - gone (maybe get him back on a short-term contract as I don't think he's found another club yet).
Skrtel - gone
Ilori - Off to the Olympics

Leaves us with only Matip and Lovren. I guess Lucas will be staying now since he's filled in well at CB when called for. No doubt we will be in the market now.
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
Ibe to Bournemouth is now confirmed.

Great transfer for him and Bournemouth.....i would not be so happy as Liverpool fan.
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Great move for us too, we got £15m for him! He didn't take his chance last season, and we have buy back options/clause in the contract also.
 
Rafateria said:
CB Crisis

Before the season has even started. Absolutely zero cover (bar Lucas or U21s).

Gomez has done his Achilles _ I really really feel sorry for the lad. A real class player in there but he may never come back from these two injuries. Out for 9 months.
Sakho - out injured for a month or two.
Toure - gone (maybe get him back on a short-term contract as I don't think he's found another club yet).
Skrtel - gone
Ilori - Off to the Olympics

Leaves us with only Matip and Lovren. I guess Lucas will be staying now since he's filled in well at CB when called for. No doubt we will be in the market now.
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Joe Gomez is injured again?!? Such a shame, looked really impressive at the start of last season. Even though Liverpool have a proper world class manager with great pedigree, about 4-5 other teams have such managers too so I don't think it would be enough to get them top 4, even with no European football this season. I reckon 5th-7th for them this season.
 
Rafateria said:
Gomez has done his Achilles _ I really really feel sorry for the lad. A real class player in there but he may never come back from these two injuries. Out for 9 months.
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That's a real shame, esp after his long-term injury last season. Is he out for nine months though?
 
Joga Bonito said:
That's a real shame, esp after his long-term injury last season. Is he out for nine months though?
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No has already been out for 9 months, no idea how long this latest injury will keep him out. Hopefully up to a couple of months or so, he hadn't actually got back into full training yet after his ACL injury.
 
Joga Bonito said:
That's a real shame, esp after his long-term injury last season. Is he out for nine months though?
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If its as bad as initial fears then yes, 9 months has been quoted. However more tests are required to establish the extent of the damage.
 
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