Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Drifter said:
I'm not .Your hatred of all things Corbyn as blinded you of that.The only poll that matters is the one at the ballot box and all he as to do is to keep on engaging with the people while the media continue with their scaremongering .
Click to expand...
I dont hate corbyn... I think he is probably a nice enough chap - he is not a credible leader though in my opinion and I still think that he wont last the year - May elections and trident maingate will be very tough for him... and the fact that in Oldham there was a candidate who is as blairite as they come and who voted for liz kendal plus they kept corbyns name / picture off all the literature that went out in Oldham suggests that perhaps its not quite so clear cut that this was a vote for the left - furthermore the demographic breakdown of the area certainly (and thankfully imo) did not help UKIP but it remains to be seen how the may elections will go (particularly with the likleyhood being that in Feb / March an EU settlement will be reached so in April / May the in / out campaigns will gather pace.
The recent you gov polls give an indication as to how polarising a figure he is seen and whilst your right the ballor box will be the ultimate judge a bad set of local elections and a civil war over trident and he may well not get to be tested in a general election
 
sun_tzu said:
I dont hate corbyn... I think he is probably a nice enough chap - he is not a credible leader though in my opinion and I still think that he wont last the year - May elections and trident maingate will be very tough for him... and the fact that in Oldham there was a candidate who is as blairite as they come and who voted for liz kendal plus they kept corbyns name / picture off all the literature that went out in Oldham suggests that perhaps its not quite so clear cut that this was a vote for the left - furthermore the demographic breakdown of the area certainly (and thankfully imo) did not help UKIP but it remains to be seen how the may elections will go (particularly with the likleyhood being that in Feb / March an EU settlement will be reached so in April / May the in / out campaigns will gather pace.
The recent you gov polls give an indication as to how polarising a figure he is seen and whilst your right the ballor box will be the ultimate judge a bad set of local elections and a civil war over trident and he may well not get to be tested in a general election
Click to expand...
I still have hope he'll be gone before that.
 
I hope he sticks around as he makes for great entertainment.
 
There's nothing to learn from the Oldham result, labour could have a bionic clone of Stalin and Pol Pot as leader and fielded a sack of potatoes with a sign stuck on it saying "Golf Sale this way" and would of still cleaned up.
 
Ducklegs said:
There's nothing to learn from the Oldham result, labour could have a bionic clone of Stalin and Pol Pot as leader and fielded a sack of potatoes with a sign stuck on it saying "Golf Sale this way" and would of still cleaned up.
Click to expand...

But it does contradict the claims that Corbyn's leadership was going to be costly for Labour in this by-election, which was being suggested by a number of people.
 
Listening to voters being interviewed it was clear that many had no faith in Corbyn and had put their faith in local guy McMahon.
 
It's fair to say the Oldham result can hardly be called a ringing endorsement of Corbyn.

But…

It is pretty funny given the commentators were lining up to say Oldham would be very close / or even a disastrous loss thanks to the Corbyn leadership. It's all very well to look at it now and say "Corbyn never became an issue" but that wasn't being said on Monday.
 
Labour loses Oldham or a narrow win - Corbyn making Labour unelectable.

Labour wins convincingly - Meh, Skeletor could have won it, doesn't tell us anything.

Jesus wept.
 
Kaos said:
Labour loses Oldham or a narrow win - Corbyn making Labour unelectable.

Labour wins convincingly - Meh, Skeletor could have won it, doesn't tell us anything.

Jesus wept.
Click to expand...

Like on Sky News when announcing the results of the Syria air strike vote as it came in.

Line 1: (Breaking) Politicians have voted in favour of airstrikes in Syria
Line 2 straight away: This means up to X number of Labour MP's voted against Corbyn!

Not the significance or implications of bombing another country, a war on IS or further joining the biggest conflict on Earth currently.. no.. this day will be known as the day Corbyn lost! Ha! Looooser!
 
Kaos said:
Labour loses Oldham or a narrow win - Corbyn making Labour unelectable.

Labour wins convincingly - Meh, Skeletor could have won it, doesn't tell us anything.

Jesus wept.
Click to expand...

But only one of those results was ever going to realistically happen as someone who obviously follows politics you would know this.
Also, I don't remember ever working for a newspaper and writing an article saying it was doubtful labour would win the seat in Oldham.


There are just some seats around the country that it doesn't matter who stands in them for either side, they just won't flip no matter what.

When people say he is unelectable, people refer to the fact that he won't hold any of his marginal seats, won't make any gains in conservative marginal seats and therefore won't win enough seats to win an election.

But you already know this.
 
Ducklegs said:
But only one of those results was ever going to realistically happen as someone who obviously follows politics you would know this.
Also, I don't remember ever working for a newspaper and writing an article saying it was doubtful labour would win the seat in Oldham.


There are just some seats around the country that it doesn't matter who stands in them for either side, they just won't flip no matter what.

When people say he is unelectable, people refer to the fact that he won't hold any of his marginal seats, won't make any gains in conservative marginal seats and therefore won't win enough seats to win an election.

But you already know this.
Click to expand...

It wasn't a personal dig at you if that's what you were insinuating.

It was rather the fact that regardless of the outcome, the media had found a way to spin this against Corbyn. The same outlets, so called journalists and media personalities who we're dooming and glooming over the possibility that Oldham would have been awkward for Labour and Corbyn are now dismissing it was even a contest and were very quick to downplay its significance. I mean had they gone with that angle from the beginning it would have been fair enough (and probably true), but its the backtracking that is pathetic.
 
Jeremy Corbyn to sack shadow cabinet ministers who disagree with his anti-war policies

Jeremy Corbyn's allies warn he will reshuffle his senior team to remove his enemies from positions of power

By Tim Ross, Senior Political Correspondent
05 Dec 2015

Jeremy Corbyn’s close associates are secretly planning to purge the shadow cabinet of moderate MPs who disagree with his radical, anti-war policies, as he seeks to impose his will on the Labour Party.

In the aftermath of the Commons vote on bombing Syria last week, allies of the Labour leader warned that he would reshuffle his senior team to remove his enemies from positions of power.

The clear-out of the moderates could come as soon as next month, in a New Year reshuffle, as part of a four-pronged strategy to strengthen the Labour leader’s grip on his MPs.

Critics warned the leadership’s revenge mission would lead to “permanent war” inside Labour.

One moderate front-bench MP said: "We are on a war footing now. We know they are coming for us and we're ready for them."

Mr Corbyn was offered some respite on Friday when Labour held the seat of Oldham West and Royton at a by-election, with an increased share of the vote.

But his aides and allies have vowed to act after he suffered a damaging revolt from 66 Labour MPs who defied his call to oppose air strikes against Islamic State targets in Syria, voting instead with the Tories to back military action.

Mr Corbyn stepped back from trying to impose a “whip” ordering his MPs to vote against air strikes, but he maintained that Labour’s official party policy was officially anti-bombing.

Despite Mr Corbyn’s declaration of opposition to air strikes, 21 MPs in his own frontbench team voted for the action, including three Labour whips charged with enforcing party discipline.

Even the Opposition Chief Whip, Rosie Winterton, chose to abstain rather than back her leader’s call to oppose the military action.

Now, Mr Corbyn’s associates have begun devising a strategy for revenge. The four key elements of the plan, which began to emerge in back-room discussions at Westminster after the Syria vote, include:

An overhaul of the whips, after Ms Winterton abstained, while Alan Campbell, the deputy chief whip, along with his fellow whips Conor McGinn and Holly Lynch, voted in favour of air strikes.
A shadow Cabinet reshuffle, with senior figures including Maria Eagle, the shadow defence secretary, Angela Eagle, the shadow business secretary, and even Hilary Benn, the shadow foreign secretary praised for his impassioned pro-air strikes speech, regarded as vulnerable for their support for bombing.
Local constituency parties selecting more Left-wing candidates, with the controversial pressure group Momentum already moving to “deselect” prominent Blairites such as Chuka Umunna with harder Left candidates for the 2020 election.
Exploiting the overhaul of parliamentary boundaries, in which the total number of constituencies will fall from 650 to 600. MPs on all sides will be fighting for seats to stand in at the 2020 election, giving Mr Corbyn’s enforcers what one called “a valuable opportunity" to "get rid of" Mr Corbyn's critics.

One senior MP loyal to Mr Corbyn said the threat of losing seats in the boundary reforms would be a potent way to convince many current Labour MPs who are not signed up to his agenda to come “on board”.

“There are not enough Left-wing MPs in the parliamentary Labour party and we need to change that,” the source said.

“We can do that before 2020. There are ways to persuade them to change their views.

“Every constituency is going to be redrawn so we can protect some people and get rid of others.”

The senior figure said the row over air strikes in the shadow cabinet must not be allowed to happen again. The next likely flashpoint will be the vote on renewing Britain’s Trident nuclear weapons, which is now expected in the New Year.

“The Shadow Cabinet is dictating policy to the leader and that should not ever happen,” the senior figure said.

“There’s only one way to deal with it and that is to clear them out at the next reshuffle.”

Other sources inside the party’s Westminster operation believe Mr Corbyn’s aides do not trust all the whips. One said that the leader’s office had deployed its own “shadow whipping operation” during the Syria vote, alongside the official party whips.

John Mann, the Labour MP for Bassetlaw, said he expected a shadow cabinet purge of some kind to follow but warned Mr Corbyn not to try to eradicate his internal critics from the Commons.

“If they want permanent war they will carry on with the deselection talk. I would advise them not to do that and to try to build a consensus,” Mr Mann said.

“Jeremy Corbyn and (shadow chancellor) John McDonnell have both said there are not going to be any deselections in the Labour Party. There will be plenty of vacancies for new candidates at the next election. If there are people they want to promote, they will have the opportunity to put them forward.

“But the idea of deselecting any Labour MPs now would just create civil war.”

Younger Labour MPs were said to have been targeted by Mr Corbyn's office and warned not to vote for military action.

Mr Corbyn and his aides summoned MPs who were elected for the first time in May to put pressure on them to oppose air strikes.

The Labour leader was said to have played "good cop" during the discussions while his political secretary, Katy Clark, demanded to know how MPs would account for their decisions to their local party members. Only a handful of the 53 newly elected Labour MPs voted for air strikes on Wednesday.

One shadow minister warned Mr Corbyn would achieve nothing by sacking moderates who disagreed with him. The MP said: "If Jeremy sacked me it would be a relief. The only reason I took the job was for the sake of the party and if he throws that back in my face, all it will do is strengthen my position in my constituency and the parliamentary party."

A Labour Party spokesman said: "Jeremy has repeatedly condemned threats and talk of deselection.

"All Labour members and representatives are expected to uphold the highest standard of conduct at all times.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-who-disagree-with-his-anti-war-policies.html
 
It will as the article make it an all out war within the party
But Trident is looming and another free vote would look poor... As would most of his shadow cabinet abstaining or voting with the government
So it's either change his stance or change the shadow cabinet
The big problem will be finding good credible mps willing to serve in his shadow cabinet... That and looking a bit petty if those who exercised a "free" vote are punished for it
 
Kaos said:
It wasn't a personal dig at you if that's what you were insinuating.

It was rather the fact that regardless of the outcome, the media had found a way to spin this against Corbyn. The same outlets, so called journalists and media personalities who we're dooming and glooming over the possibility that Oldham would have been awkward for Labour and Corbyn are now dismissing it was even a contest and were very quick to downplay its significance. I mean had they gone with that angle from the beginning it would have been fair enough (and probably true), but its the backtracking that is pathetic.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. In any case, it was always likely that the popular local leader of the Council was going to be safe. It's not as if someone had been parachuted in from the London suburbs.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
"Even the Opposition Chief Whip, Rosie Winterton, chose to abstain rather than back her leader’s call to oppose the military action."
Click to expand...

Typically high standards from The Telegraph. That is convention on a free vote.
 
So Corbyn's Labour is doing well then. Excellent result in Oldham. This will be a horrible thing for some reason the Tory press has yet to figure out.
 
Cheesy said:
But it does contradict the claims that Corbyn's leadership was going to be costly for Labour in this by-election, which was being suggested by a number of people.
Click to expand...
By a number of people in this thread. Funny, really.
 
Seumas Milne was talking about a purge of the moderates in the cabinet before he became chief of strategy, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was true. Not sure whether this has come out from Corbyn's side or his opponents though. But it's almost certain to happen at some point.

Untied said:
Typically high standards from The Telegraph. That is convention on a free vote.
Click to expand...
It's by no means essential, for example the equal marriage bill had both the Tory chief whip Sir George Young, and his shadow Rosie Winterton both voting yes. It's also instructive that the rest of the shadow whip's office voted yes on Syria.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
So if noone got sacked, what was your point?
Click to expand...

IF someone was to be sacked for not following their leader after being told they could vote as they saw fit then the free vote they were given would not be very free as it clearly came with consequences.
 
Marching said:
IF someone was to be sacked for not following their leader after being told they could vote as they saw fit then the free vote they were given would not be very free as it clearly came with consequences.
Click to expand...

Sure. Sure sure sure. Sure sure sure sure.

But noone was...

So, what was your point? Seriously like.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Here was the exchange. You're clearly trying to infer something, for reasons I can't fathom.
Click to expand...
Have you actually read the article that sparked this discussion? You can choose whether to believe it or not, but Marching isn't exactly plucking it out of thin air.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
I do. It was a very free vote. You were trying to cast an aspersion, god knows why.
Click to expand...

i don't believe in God so he/she/it is not going to help you.

I didn't realise there was a free vote and a very free vote but either way if someone who exercised their free/very free vote which presumably means they can vote however they choose but then lost their job if that vote didn't suit their boss the vote given to them doesn't seem very free.
 
Ubik said:
Have you actually read the article that sparked this discussion? You can choose whether to believe it or not, but Marching isn't exactly plucking it out of thin air.
Click to expand...

Sure, the article is there on that page in the thread. It's all hearsay and noone has been sacked, and as has been pointed out it's convention for the whip to abstain in a free vote, which they attached a doom-and-gloom "even" to.
 
Marching said:
i don't believe in God so he/she/it is not going to help you.

I didn't realise there was a free vote and a very free vote but either way if someone who exercised their free/very free vote which presumably means they can vote however they choose but then lost their job if that vote didn't suit their boss the vote given to them doesn't seem very free.
Click to expand...

And still, noone has been fired.

Congrats too by the way on getting a full 50 or 60 words out of my choice of modifier, you're well on the way to the king of the pedants title. :D
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Sure, the article is there on that page in the thread. It's all hearsay and noone has been sacked, and as has been pointed out it's convention for the whip to abstain in a free vote, which they attached a doom-and-gloom "even" to.
Click to expand...
And I just pointed out there are plenty of occasions where the chief whips don't abstain (in government and opposition), so if it's a convention it's weakly adhered to. And the article in question states such firings would happen next month. This is a discussion forum, Marching's point is that should people be fired for their position in a free vote, it would not have been a free vote.
 
Ubik said:
And I just pointed out there are plenty of occasions where the chief whips don't abstain (in government and opposition), so if it's a convention it's weakly adhered to. And the article in question states such firings would happen next month. This is a discussion forum, Marching's point is that should people be fired for their position in a free vote, it would not have been a free vote.
Click to expand...

Fine. Let's come back to it in a month then. For now, it's total conjecture from "sources".
 
unchanged_lineup said:
And still, noone has been fired.

Congrats too by the way on getting a full 50 or 60 words out of my choice of modifier, you're well on the way to the king of the pedants title. :D
Click to expand...

Thanks for that...whatever it means. I think you were wrong when you said there was a point to you.

I've quoted a post twice below hoping that if you read it twice it might sink in.

Ubik said:
This is a discussion forum, Marching's point is that should people be fired for their position in a free vote, it would not have been a free vote.
Click to expand...


Ubik said:
This is a discussion forum, Marching's point is that should people be fired for their position in a free vote, it would not have been a free vote.
Click to expand...
 
Marching said:
i don't believe in God so he/she/it is not going to help you.

I didn't realise there was a free vote and a very free vote but either way if someone who exercised their free/very free vote which presumably means they can vote however they choose but then lost their job if that vote didn't suit their boss the vote given to them doesn't seem very free.
Click to expand...

I think free vote in the world of corbynistas means free to agree with comrade corbyn...

But don't worry when jeza wins history will ( be Re-written to) show 99% of his MP's supported him... Except for those nasty Blairites but they will learn their lesson (presumably at re-education camps) and Benn will be airbrushed from history (with an ice pick) and Liz Kendall will be first up against the wall for the glorious final purge/deselection solution

As I said previously I think politically he has to "purge" the shadow cabinet or Trident brings him down... I just don't think he has enough credible options to do it in a way that does not look poor and leads to an internal war (personally I think he looses and goes within a year but others will have a different view... But we all know the war is coming)
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Key words here :D

See you here in this thread again in a month.
Click to expand...

And not before? There appears to be a god after all!

sun_tzu said:
I think free vote in the world of corbynistas means free to agree with comrade corbyn...

But don't worry when jeza wins history will ( be Re-written to) show 99% of his MP's supported him... Except for those nasty Blairites but they will learn their lesson (presumably at re-education camps) and Benn will be airbrushed from history (with an ice pick) and Liz Kendall will be first up against the wall for the glorious final purge/deselection solution

As I said previously I think politically he has to "purge" the shadow cabinet or Trident brings him down... I just don't think he has enough credible options to do it in a way that does not look poor and leads to an internal war (personally I think he looses and goes within a year but others will have a different view... But we all know the war is coming)
Click to expand...

You're right. Quite amusing and I agree he's going to have to be a bully to get his ducks in line for Trident. Bizarre thought to think he can run a country when he can't run his own party. All good for a laugh though as everyone else gets on in the real world.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.