'Will you give a blanket undertaking?', yeah, that's got the ring of truth to it. Although to be fair to the old duffer it might be his recall seeing as how he's only just remembered it happening and hasn't said who it was asked the question. If he did I might believe him.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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'Will you give a blanket undertaking?', yeah, that's got the ring of truth to it. Although to be fair to the old duffer it might be his recall seeing as how he's only just remembered it happening and hasn't said who it was asked the question. If he did I might believe him.
I guess the current government is fecked then as they keep the company of ultra Zionists
I think there needs to be a closer look as to why Russia invaded Ukraine.
It’s not as simple as Putin is an evil dictator and has lost the plot.
The West has rallied around Ukraine but utterly failed Palestinians.
Whether Corbyn would have failed Ukraine or not I have no idea. But he would have done better by Palestine that’s for sure.
Sounds a bit like the old “it’s the West that forced him to invade Ukraine” argument
Have the arab world utterly failed Palestine too?
Jeremy would never give a 'blanket undertaking' to anybody, including those who supported him, because he never put himself in a position where anyone would ask.
The West’s relationship with Israel is very different from the West’s relationship with Russia.
Yes.
They have already been utterly failed....
It actually is as simple as Putin being an evil dictator.
This isn't hard folks. Two things can be true at the same time: Ukrainians deserve support & Palestinians deserve support.
As for Corbyn himself, he says some nice things but also some utter shit.
As for Corbyn himself, he says some nice things but also some utter shit.
Without a shadow of a doubt. Humanity has failed the Palestinians. It's among our biggest failings.
Geopolitics has done Palestine zero favours.
And that is what needs to change. If Russia is a pariah state then Israel should be too
Absolutely.
Actually, it’s the ‘Russia invaded Ukraine due to its impending membership of NATO after being promised NATO would never be on their borders’ argument.
Yep, that old chestnut
NATO has been on their borders since 2004.
There is literally no formal promise on paper. Whatever some diplomat said in whatever backroom meeting, it's not binding. Note that Gorbachev himself said there was no promise. You can believe that or not.
Putin has violated the Budapest Memorandum by the way but don't let that distract you.
Why is this thread about NATO.
Galloway's Workers Party are running on that too. Seems beyond stupid at this point in time.
Well, he had his reasons and I kind understand his point of view. Sweden has just joined the NATO and I do not like it, one of the reasons I love Sweden is that it kept it's neutrality very well and did not participate directly in a war for 300 years. Joining NATO puts Sweden in a war camp and I do not like that. I do not want my tax money to go fund American wars (via NATO) like in Libya and destroy a country and send it to stone ages killing thousands of civilians.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde190032012en.pdf
https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/03/20/nato-killed-civilians-in-libya-its-time-to-admit-it/
Is there an overriding sentiment in Libya that they'd rather not have had NATO intervention?
I don't think you understand how a defensive alliance works - being in NATO doesn't oblige you to join in a NATO member's pet war crimes project, it only obliges you to defend them if they're attacked on home soil. That's why it's such a powerful deterrent to somebody starting a war with a NATO member. So although obviously the US, UK, France or whichever is the warmonger du jour will obviously put pressure on you to join them in a war as their NATO ally, there's no obligation to do so unless they are attacked at home.
Even then, you look at somewhere like Turkey who I believe have been attacked in e.g. the Syria conflict and it hasn't automatically triggered the defence clause - there is some room for nuance and/or doubt as to the origin of an attack.
I understand very well Sir.
Yes, do not intervene in other countries. NATO is a defensive treaty.
I appreciate that. However, why is NATO concerned with defending Ukraine which isn’t a member?
from the outside it seems there is more to it than meets the eye.
Rather than take the word of NATO which means absolutely nothing to me, akin to how the words of the UK and US governments mean nothing.
And why is the world so up in arms about Russia invading Ukraine but not Israel’s 76 year old occupation of Palestine?
Well, obviously NATO would say that.
If you ignore the civilians killed by NATO in Libya (which I will not), but what did the NATO achieve by removing that dictator? replaced him with multiple authoritarians and religious extremists and a far worse country? Libya is far far far worse now than under his brutal regime. There are ffs now literally open air slavery markets in Libya now.
So yes. If you are not fixing it, do not make it worse.
Why don't you go and check their facts yourself if you think they're lying?
What about the civilians targeted and killed, and about to be targeted and killed by Gaddafi? He was literally threatening to wipe out Benghazi
One of my best friends had an uncle that was taken away and murdered by Gaddafi's men in Benghazi and some of his other uncles fought in the uprising.
It was the consensus of east Libya that a no fly zone was needed and it wasn't just American interventionism.
What replaced him was a democratic election, but it didn't last..
Alright Nigel give it a rest
I've repeated this before. Two things can be true at the same time: the Ukrainians deserve support. The Palestinians deserve support.
I feel no need to throw in irrelevant arguments to diminish the Palestinian cause. You on the other hand seem to let your judgment be clouded. Am I wrong on this? Feel free to correct me.
The Western hypocrisy is real. It's an absolute disgrace how they've handled Israel. But they were right to help Ukraine defend itself against an illegal invasion.
Also, something funny about the words of the UK & US government meaning nothing to you but apparently Russia's words do.
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Back to Corbyn: he also wants nuclear disarmament. Noble, but unrealistic. No one is giving up their nukes now. Not entirely anyway. Countries might agree to a reduction but no one is gonna throw away their whole nuclear arsenal.
Quite the contrary, China is expanding their nuclear arsenal.
Quite the contrary, China is expanding their nuclear arsenal.
I think you misunderstand me.
The words of Russia mean nothing to me either. My point is should we be believing the rhetoric from either side?
the conduct of the US in aiding and abetting Israel’s onslaught in Gaza and the gaslighting associated with it, surely leaves open the possibility they may be gaslighting us on Russia too?
and I agree that there has been an appalling double standard when it comes to Ukraine and Gaza. Ukraine flags flying all over the UK and on government buildings but not one Palestinian flag.
I’m not trying to diminish the Ukrainian cause at all, although I do take exception to the fact that Ukraine seems to support Israel which makes no sense to me when they should feel most affinity for the Palestinians.
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A bit of a simplification don’t you think?
IMO there is evil leadership at the top of every ‘major’ country, be it Biden, Sunak, Satanyahu or Putin. They can all take that prize.