Polls mean nothing.
When the campaign starts, parties will have to run on policies.
When the campaign starts, parties will have to run on policies.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Parties also have to run with or against perceptions formed in the previous few years, which is what polls imperfectly measure. Those who say polls don’t matter usually do so because the polls are not in their favour. If Corbyn was miles ahead, we wouldnt hear the end of it from the polls don’t matter crowd.
Point still stands. Labours house is burning down and they wanted to chop down the annoying tree in the garden.
Ohhhh Jeremy Corbyn !!
That's your argument, not mine. I never said that.
How is Labours house burning down? You still got faith in your poll after their accuracy the last 2 elections?
Sensationalist rubbish. You should write for a tabloid, one with a bright name.
Does Labour and Corbyn have problems?
Yes.
In any GE a party has to offer policies that help people.
Labour does that.
I am not aware of what the other parties offer. What do they offer that will change the predicament the country is in?
When the campaigning starts all this will become clear. Its not about winning. What after?
How can the course be changed?
The big problem here is that the fundamental USP that Corbyn was sold on was his honesty and respect for democracy ‘new politics’, a big part of that was a respect for the will of the membership, yet his brief tenure as leader of the Labour Party has only revealed him to be a duplicitous liar like the rest of them.
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It really hasn't, but it's reassuring to think that when you're voting for actual twats.
The big problem here is that you are making up arguments against points I never made. I merely pointed out the inaccuracies of polls over recent years.
As for your generalisations. You'll need to be a little bit more specific about these duplicitous lies?
Top tip: If you suspect an MP of that, a good way to check is looking at their voting record. I suggest you do that for Johnson, Swinson and Corbyn to start with.
Andrew Fisher (policy bloke) has apparently gone. Tasty conference so far.
Yeah i read a lot of those tweets and was going to make the same point but i didn't fancy readying another ode to laura from some on here.
What exactly is Corbyn's policy on Brexit? Strategic ambiguity?
Second referendum
A second referendum with some hypothetical new deal he's secured? No deal? May/Boris' deal? Will Labour be for Brexit or Remain?
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...use-jeremy-corbyn-shutting-down-brexit-debate
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Yeah...you'll know yourself I've been critical of Corbyn at times, but the reaction to this from Labour moderates determined to see themselves above politicking when it was basically what the Blair government was often lauded for is fairly silly. In a way I wonder if it's a group of people now perpetually out of power trying to reinvent themselves in a feel-good way - their tactics don't win them elections anymore and they know their ideas aren't particularly inventive or interesting, so instead they're appealing to the notion that they're civil and above it all. When it comes to actual politics there's just a general nothingness to them.
At least the Lib Dems can claim to be strong on Brexit...Labour figures like Watson are inherently undermined in their criticisms of Corbyn insofar as they're still in the party, thereby they're enabling and furthering the very leader they claim to hate by ensuring he has a larger group of MP's and making it easier for him to stay in power. Own Smith was slating him today...but the question has to be asked why he's in a political party whose leadership have a platform that's just utterly out of tune with his own.
There's an element of truth to that, but then at the same time surely his detractors should like this, insofar as one of their initial criticisms of him was that he wouldn't win power because he's soft and naive? Again, the issue here is that once that facade is increasingly taken away, it becomes clear that a lot of Corbyn's detractors don't like him because they don't think he's a "strong" leader - they dislike him because they fundamentally disagree with his policy platform.
This would work as an argument if it weren't for the fact Labour fans here and on social media consistently use polls for their advantage when they're doing well in them. Not to mention the most common lament of the Lib Dems back in the day was how shite their polling was.
Corbyn will have to fight to remain coy and neutral. Don't think he gets away with it this time. I hope they sort it out. Go pro remain. Even if they lose, they lose honestly. This too clever for your boots facing both ways thing is tiresome now.
In forums polls are the yardstick so I can understand this.
For decades the country has been lied to. Brexit is merely the final lie.
It was never the solution.
The question that the parties need to answer is what they are going to do for working families so they do not go under.
That still leaves immigration. To stop/send back?
The reality is if everyone does not pull together, we are not going to get out of this quagmire.
When people get scared by the state of the country and current events, they want strong leaders with firm positions. A lot of people prefer to risk going the wrong direction as long as there is a clear direction. Corbyn’s ambiguous position is polling horribly. It couldn’t be any more clear that he’s fecking this up at this point.
How does him trying and failing to oust the democratically elected deputy leader make him look strong? Surely it makes him look a total hypocrite and weak?
The broader public see him as a weak leader, that’s his image problem in electability. His USP was the idea of a ‘new’ honest politics but his last manifesto was rated as dishonest by the IFS, he’s consistently lied about what deal he can get from the EU on Brexit and here he is now trying to ride roughshod over the will of the membership after Watson advocates for a Brexit Policy in line with the views of the membership.
How does this "deal and remain" actually happen?
Will this deal, or should I say WA need to be passed by parliament before going on a public vote?
I don't see there's any chance of the WA changing much, even more so when the EU know you're going to put a WA plus remain on a public vote.
If Labour can let the public decide instead of letting parliament vote it down then it is a defacto remain poll as I don't see the WA or WA plus any preliminary trade talks that may happen in such short amount of time getting much votes. EU have said they can't do any trade talks until you actually withdraw so it's the disliked WA and remain.
Will this deal, or should I say WA need to be passed by parliament before going on a public vote?
I don't see there's any chance of the WA changing much, even more so when the EU know you're going to put a WA plus remain on a public vote.
If Labour can let the public decide instead of letting parliament vote it down then it is a defacto remain poll as I don't see the WA or WA plus any preliminary trade talks that may happen in such short amount of time getting much votes. EU have said they can't do any trade talks until you actually withdraw so it's the disliked WA and remain.
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If the day after the election when the tories win again, you come on here in genuine astonishment saying “I really didn’t see that coming”, don’t be surprised if you get laughed at.
That Financial Times article is a massive pisstake
I'm not fully clued up on all things Labour. What’s the actual purpose of a party Deputy Leader? Other parties make do without one.
I think the timing and manner of trying to remove Watson is damaging but I can understand that it makes no sense to have a front bencher who seems to disagree with and undermine the leadership so often. He should be free to do that, but from the back benches. The comparisons with Johnson removing the whip from 21 members are a bit absurd.
In other news, good to see Labour support the Lib Dem policy of scrapping Ofsted. Onwards and upwards.
I think the timing and manner of trying to remove Watson is damaging but I can understand that it makes no sense to have a front bencher who seems to disagree with and undermine the leadership so often. He should be free to do that, but from the back benches. The comparisons with Johnson removing the whip from 21 members are a bit absurd.
In other news, good to see Labour support the Lib Dem policy of scrapping Ofsted. Onwards and upwards.
Again, no detail and you're not anwsering the question, just arrogance.
I can guess which party you align with.
Again, no detail and you're not anwsering the question, just arrogance.
I can guess which party you align with.
You are denying the evidence from polling for starters. I haven’t even mentioned how Corbyn polls but it’s even worse than the Labour Party. When the leader polls even worse than the historical lows for his party, then I’m entitled to say thats a serious problem. And I’m not being arrogant, I'm being frustrated and angry that labour won’t do anything about it. I’ll have to sit here for another five years listing to the opposition whinge on about the evil tories while being too useless to do anything about it. I think labour and many of its supporters prefer to whinge about the tories than actually do what’s necessary to kick them out.
Sorry, rant over. Tired of labour supporters denial.
BTW I don’t align with any party, I will vote anti brexit tactically at the election.
I’m a parent. Don’t have a problem with ofsted. Not sure this will be a popular policy with anyone other than teachers and failing schools.
Surely as a parent you'd want Ofsted replaced with a system that actually could provide you with better information about whether your children's school is providing them with the teaching they need?
As a parent (and husband to a teacher) I wasn’t aware the current system was so broken it needed scrapping.
I’m not unhappy with the information available. My main issue with ofstead was inspection frequency sometimes is too low.
Probably not much worse than what Tory members want to do.
Yep and the circle continues over and over.
This is what Tom Watson and other really want, to be treated a bit like C list celebrity.
Looking at the New Labour era, with its love in shite for like Brit Pop, the fixation with the 2012 olympics opening ceremony and really the fact they've pissed off to host podcasts, appearing on BBC reality shows, setting up foundations set up in their name etc, shows that the core idea of the New Labour Project was politics is show business for ugly people.
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It would need to be passed by parliament but the very simple point a lot of people in here are missing is remain might not win a referendum. In that case should the left have tried for a less damaging version of Brexit or not? Surely the answer is a resounding yes but i look forward to hearing why not.
kl.