Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Jolly good cos you're not getting it. Make your own way in life.
Let's see if that plan survives conference
(Though I think Boris might call an election before then just to take advantage of being up against such a nebulous position)
Is he also for time travel?
all I can say is if people are stupid enough to vote Tory so they can have their throats slit, well...
But if we elect him he would prefer to negotiate his new deal and leave? So if you want to remain you can't vote Labour. 65% of Labour voters voted to remain.
It would be stupid to not try and negotiate a new deal. Do you really want remain Vs no deal in a referendum?
No party is offering revoke, not even the lib Dems. If you actually want remain and aren't an idiot, vote for the party that has most chance of winning and is also offering a 2nd ref.
Why is it stupid and unrealistic when BoJo says this but some how magically its the smart thing to do when J C says it?
I just want to know whether the Labour leadership wants to stay in the EU like me and 65% of the people like me who voted Labour at the last election. Or do they want to leave the EU in which case I won't vote for them. Its not that hard Shamwow really is it? If they can't say then fair enough I take my one demand and shop around to find a party that can say optimally it wants to stay and I vote for them. Until we have left at which point I can honestly say I did my bit.
Thats it really.
Oh god this is why the country is fecked.
Same here. I want to stay in the EU and it’s my number one policy issue at this time. I’m not going to vote for a party that might win and then just negotiate it’s own version of Brexit. I want to use my democratic vote to change the direction of the country in the way I want it to be. If Labour can’t support the thing that matters most to me, then they don’t get my vote.
So who are you geniuses going to vote for who is going to stop Brexit?
Lib Dem. It’s not even a difficult choice. And in case you’re tempted to say ‘they can’t win’, they don’t need to win. They just need to have enough seats to be the kingmakers in the next coalition, with a second referendum as their main price for cooperation.
Tactically.
Why wouldn’t you?
Labour already has a second referendum as their policy. Why would it need to be a price for cooperation?
Don't tell me.. remain will definitely win so we might as well make the other option as destructive as possible.
Remain bloody nearly won back when most of the electorate didn’t have a clue how potentially destructive/expensive the alternative was. And that was with the subject of this thread doing everything short of actively sabotaging the campaign. Why wouldn’t it comfortably win a referendum vs no deal?
Because it needs to come with a guarantee that not only will Remain be on the ballot but that the new government will actually campaign for it, and not just try and negotiate their own version of Brexit which is still Labours position last time I checked.
A little titbit from Alastair Campbell’s letter to Jeremy Corbyn. Just for those who really believe the Labour leadership have any interest in remaining in the EU..
Whoever is government would have to try and negotiate their own version of Brexit if you want a referendum that isn't remain Vs no deal, I've already pointed this out and you ignored it.
I don't know why. But I don't hate this country enough to risk it.
I just don't get Labour voters who are switching to the Lib Dems.
1. Do you really think they can win enough seats to form government?
2. Have you forgotten how they enabled every single measure of austerity a weak Cameron government initiated?
I suspect the next time we'll have a general election, we'll end up with the Lib Dems enabling a Tory Brexit.
1. Do you really think they can win enough seats to form government?
2. Have you forgotten how they enabled every single measure of austerity a weak Cameron government initiated?
I suspect the next time we'll have a general election, we'll end up with the Lib Dems enabling a Tory Brexit.
I'm not sure I trust the general public to make a sensible decision. Too many people are politically and economically illiterate.
I'm fine with Remain vs No Deal. No Deal is polling at around 45% of the British public. There should be a second referendum because there was no clarity originally about what leaving actually meant and the form it would take. That doesn't mean that the public should be denied their right to vote for the outcome they want. If a majority of British people chose No Deal over Remain, then we should leave immediately without any deal in place.
1. No, but they can win enough to form a coalition and dictate the terms regarding Brexit.
2. Why do the Lib Dems get held to a different standard to the other parties? Labour voted for the Iraq War. The Tories shredded public services and sent millions into poverty. Yet apparently we can never vote Lib Dem again because as the minority party in a coalition they didn't stop everything the Tories wanted to do?
That's just stupid and negligent.
1. No they won't. They didn't dictate anything last time. They rubber stamped. They could have blocked stuff and forced another election if needs be. They just went with it
2. Nobody holds New Labour or the Conservatives as paragons of virtue. They were and are crooks. The nation sold it's morals and sells it's morals every time it votes these people into power. The Lib Dems (and Corbyns Labour for that matter), present themselves as moral alternatives. I voted for the Lib Dems in 2010 and I did hold them to different standards than the status quo parties, because they said they were better than them and i was stupid enough to believe it.
For what it's worth, in the general election after the Iraq war i voted for that random party that was setup as a protest vote, can't remember the name.
I think its time the UK public grew up and started understanding that politics isn't a stupid reality TV show. If they want No Deal, then democratically they have to be given No Deal with all that includes.
1. They did block stuff and water stuff down last time. Did you notice the difference between coalition Tories and majority Tories? That wasn't just a coincidence.
2. I've never voted Lib Dem before. This time I will because they have a very clear policy position on the biggest issue of the moment. I don't need them to be moral right now, I just need them to help stop Brexit.
Why don't you grow up and accept that people voted for Brexit in the last referendum, and if you don't want to be incredibly divisive and risk the future of the country even more than it's already being risked, then it should be remain vs the best deal possible in the 2nd referendum.
I hope it happens, but I suspect we'll all be dissapointed.
First of all, tone down the personal insults please. Play the ball not the man.
As for your point, you're basically saying that the public are children who can't be allowed to have what they vote for because it might risk the future of the country. At the same time you're saying we have to respect their vote. Those two things do not sit comfortably together.
You just literally said the public need to grow up and I'm the one calling them children because I think there should be a deal in the 2nd referendum?
I think they should be allowed to determine their own future, however at the moment they appear to be supporting foolish self-destructive policies based on childish inattention to detail and expert advice. I don’t think the correct way to deal with that, is to refuse to allow them proper democracy. If people want to make stupid choices then they should be given sensible advice (which they have had endlessly for the last 3 years) and then given the opportunity to rethink their decision (2nd referendum). If they still want to drive the bus over a cliff, then maybe that’s what is required to make people realize the consequences of their actions.
Why don't you want to give them the choice of a deal in the referendum?
That isn't proper democracy and isn't remotely close to how this country has ever been governed.
Our public institutions are held responsible by the public, they are not ruled by the public.
Bingo.