''There are other circumstances that could occur'' does mean we are going to brexit behind everyones backs, you know this right ? The person literally said they would support Remain.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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He’s effectively asking remainers to vote for a party that doesn’t believe in remain.
unless they win the GE at which point they stick a customs union on the W.A. and campaign for leave right?.
If they campaign for remain immediately after a GE then they might as well campaign in the GE for revoke because they need to at least try and get a deal that people could vote for in a referendum and they can't say "we'll try and get a deal but will definitely campaign against it". If they did campaign in a GE for revoke that would make them the most extreme remain party even more so than the lib dems. And they can't be as fecking dumb as the lib Dems who want a remain Vs no deal referendum.
Yeah. Ok
I suspect they try and fudge it - allow a free vote and take no official party line and therefore pitch as mostly leave in the north and remain in the south.
that said if somehow they do get in I can only see it in coalition with the libs and SNP who Im pretty sure would be against anything other than remain... you could then see enough labour leave and tory votes to leave us in the same situation now where there would be a majority against anything but probably not a majority for something
That said I think a hard brexit Ge manifestio with an electoral pact with brexit party and johnson would get a big majority as the remain vote would be split and labour have an incompetent turd as leader
Have said it here before.
Corbyn was not for unconditional Remain.
But he is for Remain which is better than the Brexit options the Tories are offering.
Do you mean that he's for Remain as long as he gets the same benefits of the EU without following the rules. Well as it's you Jeremy - No.
No it means Remain and reform. If you want to Remain and the EU to stay more or less as it is today then you are not left-wing.
But there's no half in , half out. You're either in or out and you can't reform from without. Plus he comes up with his six impossible tests. Sorry but not having it.
The tests are just holding the Tories to what they themselves promised, I don't think they should be taken as a realistic plan for Brexit.
The ridiculous claims by May have long been forgotten and were never possible and Corbyn's six tests came much later which were equally impossible. There is only one possible withdrawal agreement and Corbyn has voted against it every time - now is it because he wants to remain , so why not come straight out and say so. But equally he has put his six tests to a vote in parliament and has got beaten every time but still insisted afterwards that that was his plan.
What's the plan now. To put a Tory deal to a public vote but not necessarily a Labour deal and if there was a GE before the end of October would Labour go on a Remain manifesto remembering that their previous manifesto was to honour the referendum and leave. it's like some dodgy crook ducking and diving in the shadows.
Why because he's trying to keep all labour voters happy but can't.
Perhaps you are happy with the EU as is.
Many are not. Yes. We need to reform. But that wont happen with the Tories will it?
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The referendum was a Tory political ploy that backfired.
They wont suffer.
Just a whole lot of innocent people.
If only there were a recent example of an electorate voting for a candidate they thought was dishonest and a joke over someone else...
Depends what you want to reform. If Corbyn wants to reform it so that he can nationalise everything, especially lost causes like British Steel, then he has no chance. Nor if he wants to split the 4 freedoms.
However, if he wants to reform anything he can't reform it from outside, the Tories do not control the EU. First of all the UK system needs to be reformed.
Yes the referendum was a Tory ploy that backfired but the people fell for it and went along with it and believed all the lies and they are going to suffer for it. Difficult to have sympathy with people who have voted for their own downfall.
Ignorance is no excuse.
All the things Corbyn wants to do for the UK that he says the Tories have ignored, welfare, NHS ,police etc, he's got to have money for it and not backing wholeheartedly remain means the UK will leave probably without a deal. If the UK get through it better than the 2008 crash they'll be doing well.
Corbyn's actions do not add up and trying please everyone will eventually lead to pleasing no-one.
Labour should be as thick as the Lib Dems who want a remain vs no deal referendum I guess.
I don't agree with any sort of referendum. But for the one in 2016 Labour should have been clearly pro-Remain. The Uk will leave with no deal and Corbyn will still be wondering what to do. The whole thing will have passed him by.
Labour have to at least show they have tried to respect the referendum result. Campaigning on trying to get a deal that meets Starmer's six tests + 2nd referendum is the most logical thing to do that won't be even more divisive for the country than Brexit already is. They can't campaign on a 2nd referendum if they are implying (by fully supporting remain at this point) that they wouldn't even try to get a deal that meets the tests.
Asking Labour to campaign on revoking article 50 is fecking ridiculous by the way, even the Lib Dems who don't have to worry about actually getting in power and are instead focusing on stealing remainer votes from Labour aren't doing that. Give your head a shake.
Who said about revoking A50- that's not going to happen. A referendum's not going to happen and if there is a GE before the UK leave, Labour will be lucky to get third place. The Starmer's six tests are childishly stupid even more ridculous than May's idiocy at the beginning. What exactly are Labour trying to achieve. What Corbyn's been all his career, just a littlenuisance cos there's no way in the current climate he's getting anywhere near no.10 even with the pathetic group of current Tory politicans.
I see you missed out the other part and for a hypothetical situation. PS there's more than one subject in an election, of course I wasn't aware of the level of intelligence of the average voter, which I discovered in the run up to the referendum and which has not changed since.
By the way there's no way on earth I would have ever voted for Corbyn as if you hadn't guessed. Your Gif sums him up, a man of no action.
You literally just said you don't agree with any sort of referendum. Do you even have a point or do you just like ranting pointlessly.
My original point was replying to a point about Corbyn supposedly being pro remain but reform - the 2016 referendum but ever since has not been pro remain- I didn't agree with the 2016 referendum either but it happened.
Which part do you not understand, I know defending Corbyn is extremely difficult.
Your a tory of course you wouldn't vote for Corbyn.
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I don't know Milliband at all as I didn't know Corbyn pre 2015/16 - it's meaningless, the last Labour leader I knew was your mate Blair.
I don't understand what your point actually is. You don't want a referendum. You don't believe that revoking a50 is realistic. You don't want Brexit. It seems that all you want is an excuse to rant.
I have voted Tory, I've also voted for Harold Wilson.
Reading may help. I live in France - I don't want anything - and I never rant and I don't get upset because my pet politician is criticised.
Yeah I know that you live in France because it says it right underneath your name but you still haven't said what your actual point is.
This is starting to get surreal.
Says the guy who seems to be against a 2nd referendum, revoking article 50 and brexit all at the same time.
I didn't say I was against revoking A50, I'm saying it's not going to happen. The UK are insane to go through with any sort of Brexit. If I was against the first referendum how can I be for a 2nd referendum (which I don't think would change anything). Brexit will be a disaster for the UK.
We are where we are so what do you think should be done?
It's too late. The Tories and Brexiters have had an easy ride despite their internal squabbles. The opposition, the media have not done anything anywhere near forcefully enough to counter Brexit before and since the referendum. Over three years have gone by and the UK have ended up with a RW government who are going to crash you out and with barely a whimper from the opposition or media.
The only thing that seems to be stopping it is the hard brexiters themselves who are crapping themselves at the consequences of taking the final step hence Johnson now still hoping the EU will back down on the backstop which they won't.
Or your own apparently.
This is starting to get surreal.
Why would I know Milliband - I had no interest in Uk politics at all at the time, I didn't and don't live there. Only because of the insanity of Brexit has it become a topic of interest now.
I have voted for Harold Wilson therefore I must be a Labour Voter.
Your points make no sense.
You've spent the last couple of years calling everyone who voted for Brexit stupid, while at the same time admitting that had you lived in the UK you would have voted for not only the party who put forward such a simplistic referendum but for the party who's time in government made it easier for Leave to win(https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018...brexit-and-now-they-are-changing-their-minds/). Your excuse being well you didn't know anything about the alternatives(By the way that post of yours was from 2017. Two years after the 2015 election and one after the referendum result, fair play for shitting your brain so far after the event).
This conversation we are having is very similar to the time where people on the forum had to explain you that the housing crisis in Britain wasn't due to people buying iPhones. I mean christ you said one of the reasons you voted Labour was because you started driving and Heath wanted to reduce the speed limit!. So the idea of politics having wider repercussions and effects to people other than yourself is a concept that seems impossible for you to understand.(Don't worry your not alone as plenty of other tories have the same issue).
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If you are referring to Trump.That is a completely different scenario.
I know it was from 2017 , an answer to a hypothetical question for which I had given no thought to or needed to give any thought to. All I knew about Cameron was that he was PM of the UK, that's about it, wasn't one bit interested, wasn't even aware of the referendum promise till afterwards. I didn't vote in the referendum either but it doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.
So who cares why I voted for whom and for what reason - people pretending they're voting for the good of society is bollox. I've only ever voted what will benefit me or my family whether it's Labour Tory or the Monster Raving Loony Party - I have no political favourites.
I call people stupid for voting Brexit - not for the fact that I disagree with it but because they are voting for something that is going to make their own lives a whole lot worse - that is stupid - only people like JRM are going to benefit from it.
You have an obsession with public school and class - the only reason I went was not because my parents were rich but because I won a place otherwise I would have been at the local Grammar School or Comprehensive.
Since my parents were born Cockneys I wouldn't call myself upper class. A friend of mine who joined the school at the same time and we have remained friends ever since lived in a wooden hut with his divorced OAP father who couldn't afford the uniform, suppose he was an upper class twit as well.
I am sick of the whingeing young people , instead of moaning and being jealous do something about it. You all think you're the first to suffer hardship but your uncle Jeremy isn't going to solve it for you.