I had no idea about final solution but I also have to say I'm not the brightest either
Most people know it as The Halocaust. Final Solution was the Nazi operational name for it. Personally I find it hard to believe that whoever made that tweet didn’t know what they were doing. People involved in that type of politics know the history.
Halocaust
Sorry I’m not sure how this relates to my own positions on the conflict. I’m in Ireland, I can take a wishy-washy position just like you. Here it is: I’m fully supportive of the principal of self-determination for both peoples in however they can both be accommodated together. My preference would be for them to be able to co-exist together in a single state, but I see no prospect of that happening in the current context or any scenario I can envisage in the next few decades. I also see no prospect for a two-state solution right now given the practicalities involved and the incompatible demands of each side, and the forces at work in the wider region. I do not believe, however, that this is all solely Israel’s fault or entirely down to the power imbalance. I take Palestinian hopes and aspirations as seriously as I do Zionist hopes and aspirations. I listen to their visions for the future and I don’t believe that, at this moment, there is much if any place for accommodation there. I feel similarly about the current mood among Israeli Jews by the way.
So my own position is currently quite limited, I’d like to see moves from the ground up to encourage empathy and understanding of the rival narratives. It doesn’t mean that Palestinians must become Zionists or vice versa, but I think it’s the minimal requirement before any concrete peace deal can be achieved.
To bring the conversation back on topic, it is the total lack of empathy vis-a-vis the Zionist narrative and claims - which are inextricably tied up with the modern Jewish historical experience - from the Corbyn side of things which I find so frustrating, since it automatically alienates so many decent people with direct ties to the conflict, while attracting the worst sorts with no ties.
More specifically, how is the situation different to before the reconciliation movement. I agree with the one state stuff as I've written here before. But I don't see how there's much of a difference the current conflict to SA in the decade or two before reconciliation. I don't think there's anything in particular that makes the same outcome impossible
because there's no hardline defenders of their actions, there's no protracted debates
I think you betray your sympathies with the way you frame things.
Eboue said:You can say you listen to both sides but when you mention in this post that Palestinians have to try and understand Jewish narratives but not that Israel needs to stop illegal settlements it becomes clear which side you fall on.
Eboue said:I'd also say I dont think you are understanding my points. As I've stated here and a few months ago when we discussed a similar issue, I view conflicts from a power standpoint
I’ve explicitly acknowledged on the forum before that I’ve a pro-Israeli bias. Not trying to fool anyone here.
You’ll have to forgive me for not laying out my position on every single aspect of the conflict in the Jeremy Corbyn thread. I’ve made my opposition to settlements clear in other threads. Having said that, settlements can be accommodated in both one- and two-state scenarios, providing the mutual empathy I’ve been describing is there. So yes, I do prioritize some stuff over other stuff.
I understand just fine, I just find this way of approaching things to be simple and limited. I don’t think it offers an adequate explanation for the factors driving the conflict or a suitable approach for solving it.
I think you saying "conditional on which ethnic group" is uncharitable at best and could be interpreted as an accusation of anti semitism.
Thank you Panorama.
Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn.
Thank you Panorama.
Ohhh Jeremy Corbyn.
Very charming.
Anyone know the background to this one?
Anyone know the background to this one?
I'd expect Labour to pull ahead now by eating into the Lib Dem vote. No wonder the Tories (both red and blue) are going so strong on their dirty tricks tactics...
I heard a farrage interview where he said if Boris commited to a no deal in a manifesto the brexit party wouldn't put forward and candidates and he would campaign for the conservatives...
Factor that into the figures and I think Johnson ends up with a blairesque majority
I could see Johnson going for that with a snap election
I've always doubted that the Brexit Party would run any candidates in a general election.I heard a farrage interview where he said if Boris commited to a no deal in a manifesto the brexit party wouldn't put forward and candidates and he would campaign for the conservatives..
Clearly Jeremy Corbyn is a secret homophobe and we got him this time
yes I think that provided they get the brexit policy they want (wto / hard brexit) they would be happy to step aside... and equally I think Johnson will be aware that governing effectivley beyond a few weeks / months will prove impossible without a bigger majority so logically it makes sence from both parties... perhaps MP's blocking no deal gives him the chance to paint labour as a remain party and an excuse to go to the ballot and basically run the campaign as a second referendum but with the conservatives as the only leave option whilst the remain votes are split over several parties - logically its the most sensible play but also its boris so honestly who knows what he will do.I've always doubted that the Brexit Party would run any candidates in a general election.
Still a long way to go before it could happen.
I know it’s been said a million times before but this obsession amongst a segment of British society with actively pursuing a no deal (which will, obviously, be followed by an urgent need to negotiate a trade deal) has to go down as the most idiotic mass hysteria the world has seen since Hitler took power in Germany. It really is that mental. What the hell, like?
I think its a minority - but a signifigant one - perhaps around 1/4I'm certain only a tiny minority of total nutters would consider no deal their first choice.
The problem is that the options have been reduced to no deal or remain. The current "deal" firstly isn't really an agreement (it's merely an agreement to have further talks); and secondly is somewhat dead in the water due to the Parliamentary arithmetic. So I don't really believe it's a case of actively pursuing, as if it were anyone's first choice.
If you're allergic to peanuts to the point that it makes you significantly and painfully uncomfortable, but you're starving and the only options you're given are peanuts or no food whatsoever... It would be disingenuous to say that you're actively seeking a meal of peanuts.
I'm certain only a tiny minority of total nutters would consider no deal their first choice.
I think its a minority - but a signifigant one - perhaps around 1/4
I get that. I also think there’s a sort of madness in the air where a sizeable chunk of the British populace have convinced themselves that a no deal represents the only way that Britain can achieve true independence. As though it can then thrive in complete isolation from all its neighbours. Pull up the drawbridge and screw everyone else. Utter lunacy but weirdly contagious.
Funny that is only part of what she actually said... So probably true to say a mix of abuseShe's quitting because FBPE types kept sending her abuse
.
“The lack of tolerance for different viewpoints in the Labour Party frankly worries me. We have to have respect for each other, even if we disagree, because we are all party of this Party.”
The former GMTV presenter said: "This party is about a set of values not any individual and we would all do well to remember that.
“And while I’m at it, and it doesn’t happen in Ashfield, but when I hear people being called right wing in the Labour Party I find it utterly offensive. We are all left-wingers in this Party – that is why we joined the Labour Party.”
Funny that is only part of what she actually said... So probably true to say a mix of abuse
She voted remain in one of the most pro leave parts of the country but she specifically chose to reference the red Tory type abuse as well
Funny that is only part of what she actually said... So probably true to say a mix of abuse
She voted remain in one of the most pro leave parts of the country but she specifically chose to reference the red Tory type abuse as well
People in this local Party have respected my position over respecting the referendum result – in fact Ashfield delegates voted against a second referendum at last year’s conference. It’s a democracy we live in after all, but the abuse I’ve had on social media from some who want to overturn the referendum has been pretty grim – so to all those who have said that I only hold the position I do because I want to hold my seat, I’m afraid it’s much worse than that – I actually believe it and I’ll keep fighting for a Brexit with the closest possible trading ties with the EU.
