Stop your making me blush.Being your shameless self, I see.
It started under Milliband but it didn't stick after the his dad is a commie jew thingIn reality, it isn’t just Corbyn though. It would start to happen again as long as Labour have a socialist leader who is pro-Palestine.
It’s quite clear when you see the recent media treatment of Ilhan Omar and AOC on the other side of the pond.
A good question to ask @Synco, @2cents and @Chairman Woodie.Is it possible to be Pro-Palestine, and not be antisemitic in politics?
The Israel lobby have so much bastardised the debate that one can't have a debate about Palestine without bringing antisemitism into it.Is it possible to be Pro-Palestine, and not be antisemitic in politics?
what's his response meant to be? before all this started he had motions in parliament to bring jews to the uk from areas where they are persecuted (see, rise of ISIS), he helped organise rallys against white supremacists etc. etc. he adopted the harshest antisemitism guidelines of any UK party and it's actively being dealt with - some of the interference panaroma was so shocked about being emails saying "yo do it quicker ffs"
of course labour has a shed load of racists, the uk is an extremely racist country, the fact that so many of you are shocked by this says more about your sheltered little worlds than it does labour
Shit like that just turns an already limp mass of people completely off, 'cos it undermines any genuine problem by being so baitly one-sided yet is dressed up like it's a fecking smoking gun. It came across as complete hackery and surprise surprise, has exacerbated the situation and caused even MORE divisiveness. Nice one Panorama you wallads.Mathews isn't Jewish so I doubt it's antisemitism directed at him
Is it possible to be Pro-Palestine, and not be antisemitic in politics?
is this the part where you tell us the uk is actually good because we're not doing a genocide like myanmar? because if that's the extremely stupid logic you're after, then i have a uk political party with the harshest anti-semitism rules to sell youName some countries that are less racist than the UK
Is it possible to be Pro-Palestine, and not be antisemitic in politics?
No. You say the UK is a very racist country. I need a baseline with which to compare that statement.is this the part where you tell us the uk is actually good because we're not doing a genocide like myanmar? because if that's the extremely stupid logic you're after, then i have a uk political party with the harshest anti-semitism rules to sell you
36% of Brits have at least one antisemitic viewNo. You say the UK is a very racist country. I need a baseline with which to compare that statement.
this is a good argument for kicking out labour friends of israelProbably not. Being 'pro' something implies that you are against things that are against the thing that you are pro about.
Pro in this context is a divisive word.
Is it possible to be Pro-Palestine, and not be antisemitic in politics?
That's a nonsense fearmongering article and study.36% of Brits have at least one antisemitic view
Is it possible to be Pro-Palestine, and not be antisemitic in politics?
Disagree with this wholeheartedly. It is not as if both entities are on equal footing. One can be pro Palestine and still not anti Israel.Probably not. Being 'pro' something implies that you are against things that are against the thing that you are pro about.
Pro in this context is a divisive word.
what's someone who thinks ethnostates are inherently racist supposed to do? shut up about it? give a long rambling pre-amble that's going to be ignored anyway?It’s the kind of attitude which expresses itself in statements like “Zionism = Racism” and it’s a surefire way of signaling to Jews that their distinct modern historical experience as a people does not really interest you beyond general lessons concerning nationalism and fascism.
Definitely.
A good starting point would be appreciating that there are 8 million people living in Israel who have diverse and varied opinions about Palestine. And that’s without even getting into the foolishness of lumping the Jewish diaspora into one big amorphous mass alongside them.
Not saying you do this, personally, obviously. Just highlighting the fallacies behind a lot of the antisemitism that’s being discussed here.
It depends what you mean by pro-palestine because i think you can if you limit it to wanting a peaceful resolution to both sides. That's a reasonable approach taken by many politicians.
If being pro-palestine means you care about it's interests in the capacity of israeli intolerance and crimes against palestine then not really. That would put you in the category of being critical of israel and therefore political pressure groups would try and paint you as anti-Israel. That's just international politics though it's hardly unique to israel.
Of course it is. I’d argue that as long as you make a genuine effort to understand the factors which drove the creation of Israel and continue to drive the identification of a large majority of the world’s Jews with Zionism as an idea, then you’re on fairly safe and solid ground. You don’t have to sympathize with the idea that Israel’s creation was a good idea in hindsight (e.g. that it should come about at the expense of Palestinian rights), or that Zionism is a positive force today. But without empathy for the implications of ancient, medieval, and modern Jewish history, it’s a short way down a conspiratorial path which very easily and often ends in antisemitism.
In my opinion the biggest problem with the type of pro-Palestinian activism Corbyn has been involved in his whole life is not the blatant, explicit Jew-hatred you’d associate with the far-right, but a total lack of appreciation for the appeal of Zionism as the major historical response of Jews to the very real problems they’ve faced in getting to grips with modernity. It’s the kind of attitude which expresses itself in statements like “Zionism = Racism” and it’s a surefire way of signaling to Jews that their distinct modern historical experience as a people does not really interest you beyond general lessons concerning nationalism and fascism.
You can spell it out: apologism of Nazi propaganda. Or perhaps you'd rather not?Stop your making me blush.
''Waa" ''Waa'' Sliva said something I didn't like and you didn't criticise him ''Waa'' ''Waa''
Yes, that's what I was on about. As in: That kind of stuff is waved through unopposed.Thats your claim right ? That because none of us similar left posters on a football forum didn't criticism him(I'm not his mother)that means something deeper in regards to a political party that has over 200,000 members ?
i said she should be kicked out, but if that's really the worst case of white supremacy in labour it's honestly not as bad as i expected, and not even a tenth of what it's been made out beapologism of Nazi propaganda.
But isn't this a major problem? How can there be a proper debate when what you just highlight is true? But it is more than just politics. It has made putting any pressure on Israel to seek a two state solution almost impossible.If being pro-palestine means you care about it's interests in the capacity of israeli intolerance and crimes against palestine then not really. That would put you in the category of being critical of israel and therefore political pressure groups would try and paint you as anti-Israel. That's just international politics though it's hardly unique to israel.
one state is better anyway, palestians should also have the right of returnBut isn't this a major problem? How can there be a proper debate when what you just highlight is true? But it is more than just politics. It has made putting any pressure on Israel to seek a two state solution almost impossible.
Are there any British politicians who are a good example of being pro-palestine, without being accused of antisemitism?
I'm asking because I know very little on the issue.
You've just done it again.i said she should be kicked out, but if that's really the worst case of white supremacy in labour it's honestly not as bad as i expected, and not even a tenth of what it's been made out be
Here's what you said about the picture:Incog Man is a far-right website, which shares all manner of racist and homophobic material. The picture Kayla Bibby shared came from a 2016 post on the site, titled: “Bloodsucking Alien Parasites Killing America.”
So, who are these parasites, according to the Neo-Nazi writer? Well, black people, for a start – one particularly foul passage says: “Blacks are now HUGE parasites in White countries…They are still bilking the slavery guilt BS, even though few White people have any ancestry involved.”
It goes on to spew bile about “the black race’s criminal nature” and claims that “our once beautiful cities are filled with lazy-ass, criminal blacks sucking beaucoup dineros from America’s bottom line.”
But, for the foul author, the real parasites are Jews. As he writes: “Blacks don’t hold a candle to the parasitic, Whitish looking, chameleon Jew… Just like the continuously changing or mutating HIV virus, Jews are the virus that destroyed the proactive, protective White T-cells of our body politic, while blacks are the “opportunistic” disease bacterium ravaging the system overall… The Jew virus first infected our digestive tract (the money-making apparatus or Federal Reserve) and then sent offspring out into the nervous system and up into the brain (the educational system and media) to blind and confuse us with a somnolent-inducing drug called “PC,” while keeping us from visiting the doctor (Hitler).”
oh my god that's literally the most racist thing that's ever happened i've changed my mind about everything and will be voting for boris johnson
of all the examples of antisemitism in the labour party, of all the follow up quotes etc you really have a talent for picking the dullest most benign shit in the world
And more. You had enough opportunity to retract these statements after the origins of that picture have been pointed out (not that this should have been needed), but you didn't. You have just repeated it above, knowing fully well what's at stake.I don't care if they kick her out, but if that's all it take to rise to "existential threat to british jewry" then I have bad news about the UK
i said that to @Sassy Colin who i don't believe gives a shit about antisemitism and is a bad faith actor, i'd have been less brash to people who i think aren't bad faith actorsYou've just done it again.
Here's what's been reported about the article under that picture:
Here's what you said about the picture:
And more. You had enough opportunity to retract these statements after the origins of that picture have been pointed out (not that this should have been needed), but you didn't. You have just repeated it above, knowing fully well what's at stake.
I suggest you go back and read his posts.You can spell it out: apologism of Nazi propaganda.
Yes, that's what I was on about. As in: That kind of stuff is waved through unopposed.
There are other kinds of bigotry where there's no chance of this happening. By the way, you didn't just say nothing, you take his side against the criticism, in your usual degoratory tone.
what's someone who thinks ethnostates are inherently racist supposed to do? shut up about it? give a long rambling pre-amble that's going to be ignored anyway?
I don’t follow British politics close enough to answer. A good example of a principled activist who has advocated on behalf of Palestinian rights his entire life without being drawn towards the antisemitic gutter would be Peter Thatchell.
In fairness, Peter Tatchell has spoken at events about how he is trolled and called an anti-semite whenever he voices opinions in support of Palestine.
“Now, like many of you, whenever I do a tweet or a news release or a public statement in support of the Palestinian cause, which I’ve been in support of since the early 1970s, every single time the charge of anti- Semitism or racism will fly back at me. Even the most innocuous statements, even when I make a statement that is trying to reassure Jewish and Israeli people that they should have security, even then I’m being told that I’m not doing enough to support the Israeli cause.
So I’m trolled almost daily on Twitter by pro-Israelis who, as we’ve heard, will not accept even the slightest criticism of Israeli policy and seek to consistently turn around that criticism into the allegations of anti-Semitism.”
Christ. I wish I'd never read that disgusting garbage.Incog Man is a far-right website, which shares all manner of racist and homophobic material. The picture Kayla Bibby shared came from a 2016 post on the site, titled: “Bloodsucking Alien Parasites Killing America.”
So, who are these parasites, according to the Neo-Nazi writer? Well, black people, for a start – one particularly foul passage says: “Blacks are now HUGE parasites in White countries…They are still bilking the slavery guilt BS, even though few White people have any ancestry involved.”
It goes on to spew bile about “the black race’s criminal nature” and claims that “our once beautiful cities are filled with lazy-ass, criminal blacks sucking beaucoup dineros from America’s bottom line.”
But, for the foul author, the real parasites are Jews. As he writes: “Blacks don’t hold a candle to the parasitic, Whitish looking, chameleon Jew… Just like the continuously changing or mutating HIV virus, Jews are the virus that destroyed the proactive, protective White T-cells of our body politic, while blacks are the “opportunistic” disease bacterium ravaging the system overall… The Jew virus first infected our digestive tract (the money-making apparatus or Federal Reserve) and then sent offspring out into the nervous system and up into the brain (the educational system and media) to blind and confuse us with a somnolent-inducing drug called “PC,” while keeping us from visiting the doctor (Hitler).”
It's lucky that the cobryn wing of the party does criticise the rest of those countries for those things. Going up to and including wanting to end our military support and arm sales to those countries for similar ethical reasons to wanting to end military support for the israel government.At the very least, be consistent. If your problem is with ethno-states, you need to acknowledge that Israel is just one part of the problem in a region where pretty much every state defines itself along ethnic and/or religious lines. So your opposition to the proposed Palestinian state - which defines itself as both Arab and Islamic - and Palestinian nationalism should be made as clear as your opposition to Israel and Zionism.
it would be more accurate to say conditional on who is winning, if the roles were reversed and jewish people were getting dominated in israel, there would be calls to intervene on behalf of them and give them asylumWhat you probably shouldn’t do is play down, indulge, or in Corbyn’s case commemorate, all ugly manifestations of Palestinian nationalism while concurrently demonizing all manifestations, ugly or otherwise, of Zionism. Because that just makes it seem as if your opposition to ethno-states and nationalism is not really principled but conditional on which ethnic group or nation we are considering.
I misinterpreted you earlier, I agreei said that to @Sassy Colin who i don't believe gives a shit about antisemitism and is a bad faith actor, i'd have been less brash to people who i think aren't bad faith actors
that was also before you posted the context which was left out of the original post, how many people here had ever heard of incog man before?
i also said ban her, and have said kick more people several times in this thread
but if images like that are all it takes for the labour party to be an "existential threat to british jewry" then, again, i have some bad news about the UK, there's significantly more callous and violent antisemitism in this country
if an antisemitic image about America/ & Israel is the absolute worst of it, even coming from white supremacists, it's really not as bad as you're going to find
What you probably shouldn’t do is play down, indulge, or in Corbyn’s case commemorate, all ugly manifestations of Palestinian nationalism while concurrently demonizing all manifestations, ugly or otherwise, of Zionism. Because that just makes it seem as if your opposition to ethno-states and nationalism is not really principled but conditional on which ethnic group or nation we are considering.
I actually reposted them.I suggest you go back and read his posts.
Tolerance and ignorance of antisemitism has long been pointed out as an issue. What I observed there isn't some one-off situation, but a regular occurrence, here and elsewhere. And saying so is political criticism. Processing that as some weird personal affront is part of the problem. Also, "Waa Waa", come on.The reason I used a derogatory tone is because of your child like insistence that other posters should criticise something someone has said.
And how do you come from this ^ to this:i said that to @Sassy Colin who i don't believe gives a shit about antisemitism and is a bad faith actor, i'd have been less brash to people who i think aren't bad faith actors
Calling that kind of antisemitic propaganda "benign" has nothing to do with Colin, it's apologism.of all the examples of antisemitism in the labour party, of all the follow up quotes etc you really have a talent for picking the dullest most benign shit in the world
I addressed exactly that point:that was also before you posted the context which was left out of the original post, how many people here had ever heard of incog man before?
Also insisting on "not that this should have been needed".You had enough opportunity to retract these statements after the origins of that picture have been pointed out (not that this should have been needed), but you didn't.
why would i retract them, i would make similar exaggerated statements to other bad faith actors, if someone like will absolute got unbanned and started acting shocked about antisemitism i'd probably post worseI actually reposted them.
Tolerance and ignorance of antisemitism has long been pointed out as an issue. What I observed there isn't some one-off situation, but a regular occurrence, here and elsewhere. And saying so is political criticism. Processing that as some weird personal affront is part of the problem. Also, "Waa Waa", come on.
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And how do you come from this ^ to this:
Calling that kind of antisemitic propaganda "benign" has nothing to do with Colin, it's apologism.
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I addressed exactly that point:
Also insisting on "not that this should have been needed".
So you go from "No one told me it was Nazi!" to "Why should I retract anything?" in only one post.why would i retract them, i would make similar exaggerated statements to other bad faith actors, if someone like will absolute got unbanned and started acting shocked about antisemitism i'd probably post worse
i said i'd have been less brash with context, i'd still have used exaggeration to point out @Sassy Colin is a bad faith actorSo you go from "No one told me it was Nazi!" to "Why should I retract anything?" in the matter of one post.
