Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Silva said:
i don't think anyone here has made that argument
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What’s the implication behind this then? If not “this isn’t really that important, ‘cos Tories”...

Silva said:
oh my god that's literally the most racist thing that's ever happened i've changed my mind about everything and will be voting for boris johnson
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This whole thread is covered in Whatsbboutism... which is fine for me, I’m not in need of being convinced. But as a countrywide approach to electability, it isn’t working.
 
Mockney said:
Also this attitude clearly isn’t working in the polls so... what’s the point of it? It’s just champion grade sand burying at this point. It also appears to be the diametric opposite of the arguments being used by American leftists, who consistently argue (hi Eboue) that “voting to keep out Trump” was insufficient enough to vote for Hillary, or any establishment Dem, and that that is all their own fault... yet here, our version (which I would largely consider myself a part of) are seemingly arguing the same thing that their dreaded Centrist enemies are there... that convincing people of the Labour movement is irrelevant, ‘cos if you don’t just vote to keep out the Tories you’re a cnut.* It’s all a complete clusterfeck.

* I will vote for Labour regardless, because my philosophy is alwasy one of “do the least harm” .... but we’ve already a clear example of that not working on a wider electorate, and it’s worrying how little people seem to care. We’re going to lose this, and losing it smugly is no consolation.
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I think the key issue here largely comes down to Corbyn himself. In the US Sanders is broadly popular with the electorate but is struggling to convince his own party to back him to the same degree. Whereas here Corbyn is popular within his own party but just desperately unpopular with the electorate...for all the discussion on what Brexit approach they should take, if we're looking at polling it's fairly clear now that Corbyn himself is the problem holding Labour back with the wider electorate because he's just historically unpopular with the wider electorate.
 
Cheesy said:
I think the key issue here largely comes down to Corbyn himself. In the US Sanders is broadly popular with the electorate but is struggling to convince his own party to back him to the same degree. Whereas here Corbyn is popular within his own party but just desperately unpopular with the electorate...for all the discussion on what Brexit approach they should take, if we're looking at polling it's fairly clear now that Corbyn himself is the problem holding Labour back with the wider electorate because he's just historically unpopular with the wider electorate.
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Are there many popular politicians in the UK?
 
Cheesy said:
I think the key issue here largely comes down to Corbyn himself. In the US Sanders is broadly popular with the electorate but is struggling to convince his own party to back him to the same degree. Whereas here Corbyn is popular within his own party but just desperately unpopular with the electorate...for all the discussion on what Brexit approach they should take, if we're looking at polling it's fairly clear now that Corbyn himself is the problem holding Labour back with the wider electorate because he's just historically unpopular with the wider electorate.
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Completely agree with you.
As a life long Labour supporter and voter, I find it bizarre that the Labour party has not replaced Corbyn with someone who is capable of taking them back into government.
But that is the point. His backers seem un-interested in whether they are popular with the electorate or not.
For them, it is all about dogma.
Taking the party to the left is the objective. They can then pride themselves on hijacking the party and aligning it with their un-achieveable principles.
Simply dogma and of course Jeremy is simply the puppet to do what he is told.
Reminds me of when Michael Foot was the leader.
 
Ubik said:
Bastani always has to out-do people
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As someone who is quite often critical of labour do you think there were examples of institutional anti-semitism or just incompetence?

I can't be arsed watching it so hopefully i can just get both sides on here.

It does sound like there was interference or pressure but I'm struggling to find content as most of the media is just judgements without any specifics.
 
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Smores said:
As someone who is quite often critical of labour do you think there were examples of institutional anti-semitism or just incompetence?

I can't be arsed watching it so hopefully i can just get both sides on here.

It does sound like there was interference or pressure but I'm struggling to find content as most of the media is just judgements without any specifics.
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The period over which this has occurred is too short for it to have become institutional, and it probabaly won't now that it has been highlighted.

From the documentary, I would say the main issue is the denial within the leadership that it was ever a problem or (allegedly) attempting to cover up the problem. You can see that on here too among the Corbynistas. So I would say if there is an institutional problem, it is collective denial that some among the Labour supporters are racist.
 
Charlie Foley said:
Nothing! It’s stupid and I laughed at it
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Replace antisemitism with racism, are you still laughing? Antisemitism is racism.

Cheesy said:
I'm not sure any other minority group would be faced with the same level of scrutiny or doubt when making claims that they've been discriminated against.
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You're dead right.
 
Sassy Colin said:
Replace antisemitism with racism, are you still laughing? Antisemitism is racism.
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Yes because of where the joke lies. It is making fun of Corbyn being a bit of a klutz, not mocking Jewish people. The clue is the part where he calls himself an idiot.

I would also laugh if it took the piss out of US Republicans by saying “I throw in constitutional conservatism. Oh my god that’s white nationalism. I’m an idiot.” That doesn’t mean I find white Nationalism itself funny :rolleyes:
 
RedChip said:
The "Its a few disgruntled former employees defense" looking shaky.
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As I've said the bar for the EHRC to start an investigation is quite high and they have to feel that the labour party has from the evidence they have seen in the balance of probability broken the law
though Im sure the EHRC will simply be dismissed as blairites and out to get corbyn by some but if hes not resigned after a crushing election defeat before the EHRC report comes out i think that will make his position untenable (assuming that their initial assessment of the evidence was correct and Labour have probably broken the law)
 
Charlie Foley said:
Yes because of where the joke lies. It is making fun of Corbyn being a bit of a klutz, not mocking Jewish people. The clue is the part where he calls himself an idiot.

I would also laugh if it took the piss out of US Republicans by saying “I throw in constitutional conservatism. Oh my god that’s white nationalism. I’m an idiot.” That doesn’t mean I find white Nationalism itself funny :rolleyes:
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The joke is just too subtle for me, I'm afraid. :(
 
Sassy Colin said:
ellmann.jpg
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Silva said:
oh my god that's literally the most racist thing that's ever happened i've changed my mind about everything and will be voting for boris johnson
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Silva said:
of all the examples of antisemitism in the labour party, of all the follow up quotes etc you really have a talent for picking the dullest most benign shit in the world
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If I'm missing something here, please correct me. But as this looks to be your serious opinion, it's quite a statement on how bad things are concerning antisemitism in the pro-Corbyn camp. Holy shit.
 
Synco said:
If I'm missing something here, please correct me. But as this looks to be your serious opinion, it's quite a statement on how bad things are concerning antisemitism in the pro-Corbyn camp. Holy shit.
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am I missing something? it's a parasitic creature with the star of david on the statue of liberty, the parasitic stuff does antisemitic elements to it and I don't care if they kick her out, but if that's all it take to rise to "existential threat to british jewry" then I have bad news about the UK
 
Silva said:
am I missing something? it's a parasitic creature with the star of david on the statue of liberty, the parasitic stuff does antisemitic elements to it and I don't care if they kick her out, but if that's all it take to rise to "existential threat to british jewry" then I have bad news about the UK
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Wow. It's propaganda from a Neo-Nazi website called incogman.net (you can browse through it a bit, if you want).
 
Silva said:
am I missing something? it's a parasitic creature with the star of david on the statue of liberty, the parasitic stuff does antisemitic elements to it and I don't care if they kick her out, but if that's all it take to rise to "existential threat to british jewry" then I have bad news about the UK
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Slight understatement there. It's a ludicrously antisemitic image.
 
for the record kick her out and anyone who posts things like that, I don't want them in the party I vote for most of the time, but it's really absurd how images like that are enough to warrant the current onslaught. You will find similar levels of racism towards other groups in the labour party, you'll also find a lot worse images and propaganda against trans people from labour members, it's not even half way proportional
 
That parasite is a 'face hugger' from the Alien movies, where it would latch onto someone's face and lay eggs through their mouths, later an alien would burst out the person's stomach. So yeah it's definitely anti semetic.
 
Silva said:
for the record kick her out and anyone who posts things like that, I don't want them in the party I vote for most of the time, but it's really absurd how images like that are enough to warrant the current onslaught. You will find similar levels of racism towards other groups in the labour party, you'll also find a lot worse images and propaganda against trans people from labour members, it's even half way proportional
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It’s not about kicking everyone out who makes what is arguably more of a tasteless (and not remotely funny) ‘joke’ than something genuinely malicious. It’s about creating an environment where she can’t get away with shit like that, without all her peers coming down on her like a ton of bricks. Or at least telling her to grow the feck up.

That one tweet isn’t a huge problem but the responses to it highlight an attitude amongst the Corbynites which is clearly widespread and problematic. And should have been stamped out fecking ages ago.
 
I follow George Galloway on Twitter so it’s difficult to get balance when so much of my feed is littered with his retweets and stuff. That said, I’ve seen a fair bit today about Ella Rose from last nights show and stuff she has been involved in this year. Was she not named on the show last night and is there a good reason for that? I know they said a few times that Labour leadership refused to be interviewed but could they have not had anyone else on from the party for balance?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
It’s not about kicking everyone out for what is arguably more of a tasteless (and not remotely funny) ‘joke’ than something genuinely malicious. It’s about creating an environment where she can’t get away with shit like that, without all her peers coming down on her like a ton of bricks. Or at least telling her to grow the feck up.


That one tweet isn’t a huge problem but the responses to it highlight an attitude amongst the Corbynites which is much more widespread and problematic.
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what are you talking about, this is a random activist who none of us had heard of until after she was kicked out, she's so low-level that the maybe once a month other members might see her isn't going to be a meeting about how Kaylas posting racism again
 
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Silva said:
what are you talking about, this is a random activist who none of us had heard of until after she was kicked out, she's so low-level that the maybe once a month other members might see her isn't going to be a meeting about how Kaylas posting racism
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The whole point is that she wasn't kicked out initially, it was judged by a Corbyn appointee that the image was "anti-Israeli", not antisemitic. It was only after the case was raised by another MP months later that the party suspended her.
 
2cents said:
The whole point is that she wasn't kicked out initially, it was judged by a Corbyn appointee that the image was "anti-Israeli", not antisemitic. It was only after the case was raised by another MP months later that the party suspended her.
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I googled it, she was kicked out because she had contact with the white supremacists who created the image - the image on it's own wasn't enough to kick her out it's the white supremacist link that magnified it to a kickable offence.
 
Silva said:
I googled it, she was kicked out because she had contact with the white supremacists who created the image - the image on it's own wasn't enough to kick her out it's the white supremacist link that magnified it to a kickable offence.
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Right. Which, given how obviously anti-Semitic the image is, rather points to a problem.
 
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