He was a fairly unknown quantity at the last election. That won't be the case this time around.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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He was a fairly unknown quantity at the last election. That won't be the case this time around.
It is indeed. One thing that the British people like is a strong leader almost more than policy.
Corbyn is far from being that person. After all, he did not really want to run in the first place and had to be persuaded.
In my opinion, Labour lost their way when they voted for the wrong Miliband.
David Miliband was head and shoulders more intelligent than his brother and was a person with leadership qualities.
He was described by H Clinton as the brightest and most charismatic politician she had ever met.
Since then it has been a disaster and look where they are now. Almost unelectable.
and she's met, like, 100 people
As many as that. Wow.
Because the current circus have really taken us down a ‘strong and stable’ trajectory amirite?
No, but if you think it's bad now...
I expect it to get even worse with this current bunch. God forbid if youre poor too.
David Miliband's always come across to me as extraordinarily boring. He's undoubtedly quite intelligent but he represents that fairly bland but presentable Blair clone a lot of the party seem to continually desire, instead of recognising that if you want to evolve as a political party you need to evolve instead of trying to just repeat the past. The vision of Labour he represents is, rightfully or wrongfully, one that's largely been consigned to the past now, and I suspect he'd have come across as out-of-touch to significant portions of the electorate.
To be fair, while polling still indicated the Tories would win, they did narrow as the election approach, which was a clear indicator of Corbyn's improving popularity. While I think there's often a lot of unnecessary hysteria when it comes to polling, with each individual one used to confirm certain narratives as opposed to forming parts of a larger trend, they do tend to be fairly accurate in that they'll be 4-5 points out at most a lot of the time. And so either way this isn't particularly impressive for Corbyn: he's been struggling to establish a lead over a dire Tory party thus far and despite their chaotic approach to Brexit he finds himself falling further behind.
Can we offer Donald Tusk the job of leader of the opposition?
That would be hilarious
they make him seem so cool
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I completely agree that more arguments should have been made about the positives of the EU but I think by the time the referendum was called the die was already cast. Governments of both stripes were guilty of painting the EU as either overbearing, incompetent or irrelevant by turns in order to take credit for EU successes and excuse their own failures. The two big issues for Leavers, the perception that the UK had lost its sovereignty because of EU regulation and that was suffering due to unfettered immigration, were egged-on for political gain by both parties throughout the 2000s. Some of the loudest Remainers during the referendum and to this day are the people most responsible for the UKIP-ification of the debate surrounding migration. Blair's contribution to that was huge (I posted about some of it here), he outflanked Ian Duncan Smith's Tory party from the right on immigration in the early 2000s and his offer to the nation prior to the 2005 election included a points-based immigration system and a referendum on whether to leave the EU. Cameron spent 6 years setting arbitrary immigration targets he had no intention or ability to hit and and then blaming it on the EU, Labour under Milliband were selling 'Controls on immigration' mugs going into the 2015 election. When many of the same politicians turned round in 2016 and tried to desperately shore up the dyke they themselves had spend decades tearing down they looked ridiculous. All of which is to say, by the time the referendum was called I don't think many people were legitimately on the fence about it. When it came to the polls, the actions of party leaders during the campaign was probably the last thing on peoples' minds when they voted. In fact, the fact that the politicians didn't want it to happen was a huge plus for Brexit in many peoples' estimations.
In terms of post-referendum, the way Labour played their cards on Brexit was one of the reasons they pulled off a bit of a shock in 2017. I think I'm right in saying that the stats and polling backs up that had Labour gone full Remain (ref. on deal/2nd referendum/cancel Article 50 etc.) into that election they would have been absolutely massacred. I think Corbyn sitting on the fence re: Brexit following that election was part of the strategy to keep the electoral coalition together in case we saw another one. But there's been no realistic chance of that happening for ages now, and like I said, both sides of his coalition are getting understandably tetchy. For my money Labour should have taken the plunge into supporting a referendum on the deal (at the least), about 12 months ago, not because it was politically expedient or to stick it to Theresa May, but simply because it's in the country's best interest. Whether it's a lack of boldness from party leadership or whether it's just that those at the top are quite happy with the soft-Brexit Corbyn is angling for, I'm not 100% sure. Either way it's fecking annoying.
they make him seem so cool
"War replaced with free everything," who wouldn't want that?
Oh Jeremy...
I think Don't Know would be a better PM than both of 'em, mate.
Playing a blinder apparently
I'm generally quite wary of extrapolating too much from polls in the short-term due to their volatility even though I do get annoyed by those who dismiss them as accurate - but these numbers have to surely be especially worrying for Labour. By all accounts he's the one holding him back here; it's not just a case of the party as a whole being unpopular.
Very good post, seen it said a number of times that during the Blair/Brown/Cameron years, any deals/agreements with the EU were always framed in regards to what we hadn't given up, as opposed to what we'd gained. The country found itself governed by a series of PM's who vowed to crack down hard on immigration in public but who didn't care behind closed doors. Which created a weird situation wherein anti-immigration sentiment was the absolute norm, even though we had politicians who didn't intend to address it. The equivalent would be Britain not having an NHS, and politicians of all parties championing one but doing nothing to advance its possible creation while in power. All they did was create a chasm wherein voters felt unrepresented. Instead of championing the benefits of immigration.
Said before that Cameron's approach to the EU would've been like him talking about the virtues of Scottish independence for years before then trying to be seen as a realistic opponent to it. He spent the Brexit referendum as one of Remain's key voices even though he'd spent years badmouthing the EU and showing disdain for it. And yet somehow he was surprised when the country voted to leave. Embarrassing PM all-in.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47169929
No, Jezza, there's definitely not a problem with anti-Semitism amongst your acolytes in the Labour Party. I've been a lifelong Labour voter but I'm becoming increasingly sure I will be voting Lib Dems in the next GE if Corbyn is still leader.
No, Jezza, there's definitely not a problem with anti-Semitism amongst your acolytes in the Labour Party. I've been a lifelong Labour voter but I'm becoming increasingly sure I will be voting Lib Dems in the next GE if Corbyn is still leader.
If you are a Labour MP and you are asked on TV if you intend to leave the party, and you refuse to rule it out I think you should have the whip withdrawn tbh, let alone deselection.
A Labour MP supporting the Labour Party what a crazy idea.
How dare local members, who'll be expected to do the bulk of her reelection campaign's literal legwork, want to be doing so for someone who actually wants a Labour government.
I actually want a Labour government. I don't want a Momentum government, which is what we'd get if Corbyn achieved the impossible and won a GE.
So you don't want a Labour government now then. Glad we cleared that up.
Probably explains why you're not a supposed Labour MP whose local party wants to replace, really.
So essentially you just want Blairism?
I want a choice between the two, the sooner the party splits the better.
Would just ensure a Tory government, though.
Thats not wht they are trying tokick her out though... they are trying to kick her out because she speaks out against the anti semitic abuse she has received and particulraly how she feels the leadership of jeremy corbyn has not addressed this.
Should she just accept this and not say anything? - isnt this how
Nothing says you're serious about antisemitism quite like comparing Momentum to the Nazis. Please, go on.
I get it, if your a liberal then supporting a far left leadership who's basically offering potentially radical (Although it really is mostly standard)social democracy might be difficult but just be honest about it.
Stop framing it as anti semitism or party take over conspiracy. Because one it undermines actual anti semitism and two is just stupid, I mean the top guy of momentum is John Landsman who has been very critical of anti semitism in the party, is just himself Jewish and has come out in support of Berger.
Stop framing it as anti semitism or party take over conspiracy. Because one it undermines actual anti semitism and two is just stupid, I mean the top guy of momentum is John Landsman who has been very critical of anti semitism in the party, is just himself Jewish and has come out in support of Berger.
not sure - they will probably split in to conservatives and brexit party
if the end outcome was a true multi party system and ensuring we had to go to a PR system (as basically every government would end up as a coalition anyway) it would probably be worth it in the long run
because of course kicking people out of party who are getting death threats and abuse is apparently better than tackling the problem of antisemitism... I mean if they get rid of the jews from the party then they wont have any complaints.... whats next eradicating the problem from the country...
Thankfully corbyn is finished in the eyes of the electorate and this farce will soon be over .... its just a shame that the legacy will be the most ineffectual leadership of the labour party ever possibly finishing the party and certainly giving the ERG mob the upper hand in the brexit mess... ooooog jeremy corbyn indeed
Is calling a spade a spade, or an anti-Semite an anti-Semite in this instance undermining anti-Semitism when Luciana Berger had to attend the Labour Party conference with a police escort due to the death threats she was subjected to for speaking out against the anti-Semitism she has witnessed and been subjected to herself within the Labour Party. Further confounded by the inaction and disinterest by the party's leaders.
Unfortunately it won't be soon over, not without a split. The Corbyn fanatics will never let the project die, they will continue to re-elect him in party leadership elections and Corbyn has proven he's not the kind of man who will stand aside for the good of the party.
That would depend on how many votes a Momentum Left party would take from a Centrist Left
. And how far to the right the Tories were. In any event I would like the choice.So now an organisation led by a Jewish man not only wants to 'get rid of Jews from the Labour Party' but you're suggesting they'll move on to getting them out of the country.
Amazing.
At some point you have to accept that this country needs more than two viable parties. There is no good time for that to happen from an electoral success perspective, but it still needs to happen. Its not like the Tories aren't struggling with the same dilemma, trying to hold together two wings that have incompatible values. A split could just as likely take the metro-centric, classical liberal, pro-EU pro-business Tory vote with them, or prompt a creation of a further party along those lines.
First paragraph describes me. Have to say I can’t get worked up about the whole antisemitism thing (as it applies to Corbyn anyway). I’d be far more worried about him being so unelectable, despite the present incumbent being basically a running joke.