Labour are looking closely at the Brexit situation and guess what. They are seeing exactly the same dilemma as May and are just as fecked as her with regards to the solution.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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The irony here is that a lot of Momentum are cast iron Remain supporters. They are going to feel seriously betrayed by this too.
Never mind Momentum, it's pretty much the same here on the Caf. The majority, in the CE forum at least, are Corbyn and McDonnell fans, yet also Remainers. It's normal for people not to agree with absolutely everything their leaders stand for, admirable even, it's just the lack of acknowledgement that grates with me.
Bit harsh that.
It's time for them to take a clear stand on the Remain side. The country is deeply divided sure, but its made so much worse by one side not having a credible party fighting for what they believe in. The Labour membership polled hugely in favour of Remain this week, and this stuff the likes of McDonnell and McClusky keep spouting is at odds with the groundswell opinions of the party. If they continue to try and hedge like this, they'll weaken their position, and risk the very people they need to turn out for them in an election just not bothering.
It is a 4D chess match though.
Being played by two incompetent draughts players.
A vote on the deal itself is just silly. Considering it's either accepting that deal or crashing out completely it's an idiotic waste of time.
History will favour the side that puts the country before party and power - regardless of any short-term pain.
The real problem here is that the politicians we have in the party (this is the same for a lot of parties) aren't interested in whats best for the nation, ahead of what's best for them. A pro-remain candidate with left leaning tendancies would beat JC to the Labour party leadership, but anyone who's seriously intent on being PM won't go for it now.
1. There is no guaruntee that momentum will split and they'll get the lions share of supporters.
2. There are probably quite a few Blairites who'd throw their hat into the ring to make sure they're counted, which would make the election a closer fought thing.
3. Once in power you're obliged to challenge the Maybot for a second referendum, which she won't do, so it'll be a challenge for an election. You can't be sure the Tories would rebel at this point, they're waiting for May to be the Brexit fall guy and then stab her in the back. This makes you the Labour leader who failed to deliver a second referendum.
4. There is a strong cross party appetite for leave - there is no guarantee that a new labour leader would beat the Maybot, especially with a divided party. The media particularly are pro Tory, the electorate don't know enough about you.
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I just think they're looking for a better time. Post Brexit you can blame the Tories for Brexit, you can blame JC for failing to stop it, and you have the pinch of economic crisis setting in to make the electorate look for an alternative.
As a career politician, why take a risk now, when it's easier in 18-24 months time.
1. There is no guaruntee that momentum will split and they'll get the lions share of supporters.
2. There are probably quite a few Blairites who'd throw their hat into the ring to make sure they're counted, which would make the election a closer fought thing.
3. Once in power you're obliged to challenge the Maybot for a second referendum, which she won't do, so it'll be a challenge for an election. You can't be sure the Tories would rebel at this point, they're waiting for May to be the Brexit fall guy and then stab her in the back. This makes you the Labour leader who failed to deliver a second referendum.
4. There is a strong cross party appetite for leave - there is no guarantee that a new labour leader would beat the Maybot, especially with a divided party. The media particularly are pro Tory, the electorate don't know enough about you.
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I just think they're looking for a better time. Post Brexit you can blame the Tories for Brexit, you can blame JC for failing to stop it, and you have the pinch of economic crisis setting in to make the electorate look for an alternative.
As a career politician, why take a risk now, when it's easier in 18-24 months time.
Still waiting for one of them to actually do that.
Keeping your options open = Indecisive. Corbyn might be principled but I have really not seen much in the way of leadership from him on Brexit. That fudge looks very much like what you would expect from decision by committee.
I'll defend him when what he says is worth defending, like the importance of liberal values, and criticise him when what he says isn't.
At the people defending Blair.
Oh god it's like being lectured to by a sociology lecturer from a former polytechnic who thinks he is up there with Brian Cox or Simon Schama when in reality his schtick is just to point out that no-one else understands the subtleties of the argument as much as he does...not at all irritating!
Can Corbyn, McDonnell and Len McCluskey please just go and Circle jerk together to 1930's propaganda films and leave someone else to try and actually form an opposition.
You might want to watch the video first mate. And yeah it seems Brian is a bit thick when it comes to politics
Starmer tells the Labour conference today that "nobody is ruling out Remain as an option." Like McDonnell saying that's exactly what he wants to do the very day before. And you can bet McDonnell makes sure he's in agreement with Corbyn beforehand.
I think that every time I read a post with 'nuanced' in it. Don't go in the Racism thread whatever you do, no opinion can be wrong in there because it's so very nuanced, don't you see.
I think that every time I read a post with 'nuanced' in it. Don't go in the Racism thread whatever you do, no opinion can be wrong in there because it's so very nuanced, don't you see.Of course, he's being dishonest about when he cut ties with Press TV - the election time clampdown on the opposition happened in the summer of 2009, he made plenty of appearances after. And I've yet to come across a single clip of him on Press TV discussing human rights in Iran.
Seriously, why can't he just say he was wrong?
because he clearly doesn't believe that he did anything wrong. He also seem to know, that being entirely honest would make him look so bad, that he feels the need to massage the truth. His attempt of spinning it towards "confronting Iran on the grounds of human-rights" is hilarious.
What he should be doing there is saying that, in hindsight, he regrets it, and then go on to say whatever line he has about his raising human rights issues or whatever else. He should be portraying himself as someone who made a mistake whilst trying to do the right thing, instead he looks like someone who is making excuses for something he always knew was wrong.
Did anyone watch the conference speech? I've only seen highlights, but it seems to have gone down pretty well with individual journos saying it's his best speech yet and piles plenty of pressure on May.
Did anyone watch the conference speech? I've only seen highlights, but it seems to have gone down pretty well with individual journos saying it's his best speech yet and piles plenty of pressure on May.
Hobbers I've had the misfortune of reading your posts and if I was you I wouldn't go around calling others simply minded.
I think Corbyn is a genuinely nice man who cares about people, but who isn't blind to the failings of 'his own'. I think I agree with him on not using a nuclear weapon - what I don't agree with is him telling everyone. Let's be honest, as a defence it would be futile even if we took out several million with us. As a deterrent it might work.
He's a politician like any other. I pity the people that hold politicians up to some sort of high standard to the point it becomes a cult of personality.
They will be disappointed.
They will be disappointed.
Indeed. That’s some archetypal reptilian shapeshifting in the interview above.
There was a report on BBC4 from the Labour conference yesterday (evil MSM I know #wearehismedia), they described the mood among the attendees as them believing they are spearheading a global recalibration of the capitalist system.
It seems they are high minded ideologues when we desperately need a practical and pragmatic approach at this difficult time. I see no solace anywhere on the political spectrum currently.
So when faced with the reality of back whatever deal may comes back with (assuming they fudge something) will he have a three line whip to vote against it and crash us out of the EU with no deal will Corbyn do it knowing he will be the one painted (in the uk and the eu) as having rejected the deal and causing a hard brexit... Gonna be interesting
He must know there is no way a general election gets forced over a hard brexit as may would pass the confidence vote with the brexiteers having got what they want
He must know there is no way a general election gets forced over a hard brexit as may would pass the confidence vote with the brexiteers having got what they want
He won’t need nukes to ruin the country, that’s for sure.
I think his anti nuclear stance is overplayed... I'm sure he would use them on Israel if the opportunity arose
This makes me so angry. It’s not a personality cult - it’s the left wing finally having someone they agree with come to prominence. Could just as easily be McDonnell or so many others.
Reading Oscie in his Ask an Admin complaint he fails, characteristically, to come anywhere near the truth by saying that in the absence of him this thread will be a pro-Corbyn love in. Quite the contrary, it appears to now be exclusively the domain of a load of angry people queuing up to take out all their disappointments on Corbyn.
Then you really don’t get it. That’s such a disgusting misreading of someone, and slanderous, that you’d do well to log off and have a little think to yourself.
Disgusting.
What I have written is slanderous?... I think you should put down das kapital and read a dictionary for a while
That’s such a disgusting misreading of someone, and slanderous, that you’d do well to log off and have a little think to yourself.
Disgusting.
I think you need to chill.
That’s such a disgusting misreading of someone, and slanderous, that you’d do well to log off and have a little think to yourself.
Disgusting.
Jokes about the Dear Leader are not permitted.
Boring.
It’s pretty outrageous to seriously suggest that someone who’s spent the last year fighting off a shitstorm of racism and anti-semitism allegations, from the former Chief Rabbi to Margaret Hodge, and a lifetime campaigning for nuclear disarmament that, given the chance, he’d drop a nuclear bomb on Israel.
What's more outrageous... The chief rabbi having to call out the leader of a mainstream political party in the UK for being anti Semitic or me making a joke about it?
And look up the meaning of slander before using it incorrectly... English is my 3rd language and even I know your wrong
I’ll use whatever word I want, thanks.
Why would you say Corbyn would like to drop a bomb on Jews in Israel if he had the chance?
You might want to try using the right ones...
As I say how can what I wrote be slander... How is that actually possible?
Have you tried looking it up in a dictionary yet?
Stop the personal attacks. Argue nicely.