It's almost as if that very same man has a flawed record in government that's becoming even more flawed in retrospect, especially with how out-of-touch he is. Being in political office doesn't automatically mean you deserve to be respected, or that your opinions have an inherent worth that others lack. GWB was President for nearly a decade but most reasonable people wouldn't take anything he says seriously. Most authoritarian leaders have vast political experience, but are obviously charlatans. Domestically Brown often found himself doing a lot more than Blair, and Blair's understanding of global politics was naive at best and ignorant at worst, leading to his complicity in a devastating war whose effects are still being felt today. I've no time for the dismissal of experts but a lot of former politicians would hardly qualify as such due to the unique nature of how they gain their positions.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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It's almost as if that very same man has a flawed record in government that's becoming even more flawed in retrospect, especially with how out-of-touch he is. Being in political office doesn't automatically mean you deserve to be respected, or that your opinions have an inherent worth that others lack. GWB was President for nearly a decade but most reasonable people wouldn't take anything he says seriously. Most authoritarian leaders have vast political experience, but are obviously charlatans. Domestically Brown often found himself doing a lot more than Blair, and Blair's understanding of global politics was naive at best and ignorant at worst, leading to his complicity in a devastating war whose effects are still being felt today. I've no time for the dismissal of experts but a lot of former politicians would hardly qualify as such due to the unique nature of how they gain their positions.
Tony Blair's government could have wrote a book on ignoring experts lol
Indeed, a significant part of Blair's style of leadership basically involved surrounding himself with some close mates and not really bothering with anyone else.
Well firstly I’m a remainer, so I’m sorry to disappoint your presumptuous hysterics.
But hey, let’s sing the praises of the man who took it upon himself to start a phony war that led to the deaths of over a million and destabilised a region to the extent its ramifications are still felt today.
Let me ask you - how well do you think a Tony Blair would fare in an election today? I mean yer man Jeremy Corbyn is probably eternally grateful for Blair’s inadvertent endorsement through virtue of desperately pleading with Labour members to snub him. We all know how well that worked out.
When conspiracy theorists attempt to outthink reality
It is possible to believe that Tony Blair can at the same time, be wrong about Iraq and right about the importance of classical liberal values.
... just waiting for Dobba now. It’s like saying Beetlejuice three times.
I think one of the problems about modern politics is that people decide if they agree with something based on who said it. Topically you only have to look at the fact Corbyn's position on Brexit is essentially absolutely identical to May's: leave SM and CU, but argue only they can negotiate a good deal retaining benefits of both. Yet when she says it it's madness, when he says it somehow it's a sensible policy.
Few actually listen to the content of what's said, they just mindlessly cheer whatever side they've assigned themselves to support, regardless of what it is they're saying. And they'll never be seen agreeing with the side/person they don't support even if they agree with it. Essentially it's how 8 year-old's view Power Rangers or WWF; my favourite rules, your favourite is a poo face and sucks! State of British politics today.
Still people will insist with furious rage leaving the SM and CU and negotiating all keeping the benefits is a sensible policy and completely different to the other side's lunatic policy of leaving the CU and SM and negotiating to keep all of the benefits - which'll never work.
At the people defending Blair.
That’s a hell of an accusation to make. Where’s the proof?
Daily Mirror reporting that Corbyn will back a second referendum if Labour vote for it. Polls tonight suggest over 80% of Labour members are in favour of it.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-back-second-referendum-13292683
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jeremy-corbyn-back-second-referendum-13292683
Which of the "Death of Stalin" characters is he would you say....i'll go for Michael Palin's one as JC could imprison his family and he would support him, calling family members out as factionalist Blairites.
Hang on... Tony Blair is involved in "the people's vote".... It's a blairite plot...set smear cannons to purge
Going by his otherwise completely excruciating performance on Marr this morning (setting aside the accusations of 'bias' and 'badgering' which is what happens when a political interviewer so unfairly asks questions of Corbyn based on what he's previously said, done, or those with whom he's associated - which is SOOO unfair!) it looks as if he's relying on backroom efforts to try and prevent a vote on motion that's explicit in calling for a 2nd referendum from taking place. My guess is the party machine will muddy the waters so delegates won't get a chance to back a specific motion to have another vote, and will try and funnel it in a different direction to let him off the hook of trying to do a complete about face and argue the total opposite of what he believes.
My guess is maybe watering it down so all the conference gets to vote on is a notion of "jobs first" Brexit, whatever the feck that means.
My guess is maybe watering it down so all the conference gets to vote on is a notion of "jobs first" Brexit, whatever the feck that means.
Is the vote this evening?
It's Tuesday I think
Oh right. The way they were banging on about it on the news I assumed it was tonight.
They're still trying to decide what the vote is. Might be wrong but I'd be surprised if they were permitted to vote on anything explicitly calling for a second referendum. To save the leader's blushes I suspect it'll be something like:
"This conference believes that nobody voted to be worse off, and we need a Labour government to negotiate the best deal for the people" - or some such. Watered down pap that doesn't say enough and still enables Corbyn to ape May on the issue whilst his supporters sing that awful song over anyone pointing that out.
"This conference believes that nobody voted to be worse off, and we need a Labour government to negotiate the best deal for the people" - or some such. Watered down pap that doesn't say enough and still enables Corbyn to ape May on the issue whilst his supporters sing that awful song over anyone pointing that out.
“I was going to say something about how good it is being a Jew in the Labour party at the moment … but someone told me you guys don’t get irony.”
Stella Creasy to a Labour Jewish group.
Stella Creasy to a Labour Jewish group.
I'd say that it's big news because it's the first time he's said to the media that conference will decide Labour policy, but he's been saying that for 3 years now. I guess the expectation amongst people who dislike him was that he'd come over dictatorial when it came to a policy like Brexit where his historical views differ to those of the membership. As a broadly pro-Corbyn Remainer I'm cautiously optimistic, but the jury's out as yet, as @Oscie says (amongst the cynicism and usual Corbyn-bashing), the wording of the motion is the key thing now and that's what will be decided between now and Tuesday. It could be that they simply have a vote on whether to have another Leave/Remain referendum, but equally it could be something that says 'In X conditions, we will call another referendum', which would give Labour room to triangulate politically as Brexit unfolds but wouldn't do much in terms of party unity and would leave the party's policy uncomfortably muddy going into a potential snap election.
The CLP's choices for priority and debate are interesting:
CLP priorities ballot results\:
Housing 297,032
Schools System 233,883
Justice for the Windrush generation 212,612
Palestine 188,019
Brexit 149,172
The NHS 121,487
Welfare System 89,861
Climate Change and Fracking 72,890
Local Government Funding 68,473
Social Care 64,569
I guess this is what happens when a party gets overrun by fringe protesters. Real issues get put by the wayside for pet protest issues, just a lot more navel gazing. Because we wouldn't know it was a left wing party unless Palestine was given undue prominence of course....
CLP priorities ballot results\:
Housing 297,032
Schools System 233,883
Justice for the Windrush generation 212,612
Palestine 188,019
Brexit 149,172
The NHS 121,487
Welfare System 89,861
Climate Change and Fracking 72,890
Local Government Funding 68,473
Social Care 64,569
I guess this is what happens when a party gets overrun by fringe protesters. Real issues get put by the wayside for pet protest issues, just a lot more navel gazing. Because we wouldn't know it was a left wing party unless Palestine was given undue prominence of course....
Palestine over Brexit. Good lord almighty.
In contrast...
Trade Union and Affiliate priorities ballot results Brexit 1,878,501
An Economy for the Many 1,848,812 Government Contracts 1,845,256
In-Work Poverty 1,845,084
Housing 39,479
The NHS 35,445
Justice for the Windrush generation 29,622
Social Care 9,642
Schools System 7,697
It's been transformed into a party that settles vendettas and seems to not give a feck about real issues.
Personally I think they should just make the party conference a list of things they disliked about previous Labour governments. Oh wait, they have. Joy.
Also he was thrown out for shouting and heckling someone giving a speech, not for "speaking out", melodramatic and inaccurate feckwits. It is brilliantly timed though, people questioning whether the leadership is going to represent member's views on Brexit, questioning the conference focusing on issues that shouldn't really be central, and along comes the Corbyn supporter's Tweet just in time with and update on Walter Wolfgang. I know half a dozen people on this forum alone who haven't had a night's sleep in over a decade worrying about him.
Couldn't make it up. The Labour party. I fear I might be sleep and miss the excitement of seeing Carol Winterbottom take to the stage, cruelly defeated in the selection for the parliamentary seat of Blackburn by Jack Straw many moons ago. I hear she's due to be cannonised. That'll finally right one of the most profound injustices of the 20th century.
Just as an aside: What's everyone's favourite Walter Wolfgang themed-book and/or international day of remembrance? Just keep it top 3, to save this taking over the entire thread.
Personally I think they should just make the party conference a list of things they disliked about previous Labour governments. Oh wait, they have. Joy.
Also he was thrown out for shouting and heckling someone giving a speech, not for "speaking out", melodramatic and inaccurate feckwits. It is brilliantly timed though, people questioning whether the leadership is going to represent member's views on Brexit, questioning the conference focusing on issues that shouldn't really be central, and along comes the Corbyn supporter's Tweet just in time with and update on Walter Wolfgang. I know half a dozen people on this forum alone who haven't had a night's sleep in over a decade worrying about him.
Couldn't make it up. The Labour party. I fear I might be sleep and miss the excitement of seeing Carol Winterbottom take to the stage, cruelly defeated in the selection for the parliamentary seat of Blackburn by Jack Straw many moons ago. I hear she's due to be cannonised. That'll finally right one of the most profound injustices of the 20th century.
Just as an aside: What's everyone's favourite Walter Wolfgang themed-book and/or international day of remembrance? Just keep it top 3, to save this taking over the entire thread.
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Did Corbyn date a women you liked or something similar ? These bizarre rants/bad 90's stand up routines you do on here can't just be because Corbyn is a socialist.
How dare you dismiss Ms Winterbottom's struggle with such disdain.
It was well timed though. The context of the conversation being "wtf is Labour playing at?" and then in comes your Water Woolfgang Tweet. The almonds on the icing on the cake.
It was well timed though. The context of the conversation being "wtf is Labour playing at?" and then in comes your Water Woolfgang Tweet. The almonds on the icing on the cake.
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Leadership appear to be determine to push hard against notion of a definitive vote on whether to endorse the call for a definitive vote.
But ignoring the member's views is much like voting against the party whip - it's only egregious if someone else does it.
It's a pickle of Corbyn's on making though. He's facing the prospect of having to front a policy he clearly doesn't believe in and look weak in the process.
But ignoring the member's views is much like voting against the party whip - it's only egregious if someone else does it.
It's a pickle of Corbyn's on making though. He's facing the prospect of having to front a policy he clearly doesn't believe in and look weak in the process.
It would be more embarrassing for him now if he didn’t let the membership decide after making clear today he would.
Once he’s said that he was elected to give the members more power, he’s nailed his colours to that mast.
It’s the same as Trident. He doesn’t agree with it, but as it was voted for by members at the last conference it remains party policy.
I don’t see what the confusion is. What’s happened this weekend was always likely to happen - as I predicted in this thread - and now we have to wait to see if McDonnell and Corbyn can find a way to provoke a General Election, which is the ultimate aim.
Well he's in a position of either promoting a policy he's on record as opposing and therefore looking ridiculously weak and open to justified attack, or continuing to support a policy the overwhelming majority of his party oppose whilst still pretending to have "brought democracy back to the Labour party" and therefore looking ridiculously weak and open to justified attack.
Putting those who will conclude that the sun still shines out of his arse aside for one moment - that's terrible leadership to end up in such a mess.
Putting those who will conclude that the sun still shines out of his arse aside for one moment - that's terrible leadership to end up in such a mess.
Please dont ever vote labour again, even if they beg to stay in the eu and offer you a million quid.
And so the purge begins
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621354
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45621354
I bet you’ve posted more than anyone in this thread and you continually abuse people who support Corbyn. Yet you are just as one dimensional in your opposition of him. Can he really be wrong about everything?!
Hold anyone else up to your standards on Brexit and the same would apply.
It’s an unprecedented mess and no one has emerged unscathed. I suspect there’s been a significant shift in public opinion and that Labour’s move this weekend reflects that.
I doubt this will lead to much. The members overwhelming want open selections(Which this isn't it).
Parody account alert. But bang on the money