Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

What can I say, there's a constituency of people out there who're desperate for Labour to actually oppose this Brexit car crash and who are becoming understandably angrier and angrier that they're not. In that context seeing Corbyn engage in public discussions on the sodding Elgin marbles is something people will find irksome.

The choice we have is a party that thinks it can leave a club but demand benefits of membership, and another party that thinks we can leave the club then ask all the existing members to set up a new club just for us that has the same benefits as the club they're all still a member of that we decided to leave because that's the will of the people on a referendum that never even made mention of the club we now say we must leave.
 
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Labour Live event ticket sales going very badly. Very low ticket sales and they're now resorting to giving tickets away. I alluded to this in another thread but has this whole 'Corbyn Revolution' thing been exposed? If you think of the apparent platform he has had for the past 3 years now, what has he achieved?

For the purposes of the question I'm ruling out: ensuring Jewish comedians on Twitter know their place, awesome memes and providing Paul Mason with a lucrative second career. Beyond that, what has been achieved? It's all been just smoke and mirrors, hasn't it? The only achievement seems to be that people who maybe otherwise felt isolated have felt emboldened to dismiss anti-Semtiism and stifle criticism.

Where has that energy and enthusiasm gone? There's that chant. You know the one: "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn!" but if we're looking for tangible success and achievement - what is there? Three years after what's apparently inspiring a political revolution what exactly is there to show for it?
 
Oscie said:
Labour Live event ticket sales going very badly. Very low ticket sales and they're now resorting to giving tickets away. I alluded to this in another thread but has this whole 'Corbyn Revolution' thing been exposed? If you think of the apparent platform he has had for the past 3 years now, what has he achieved?

For the purposes of the question I'm ruling out: ensuring Jewish comedians on Twitter know their place, awesome memes and providing Paul Mason with a lucrative second career. Beyond that, what has been achieved? It's all been just smoke and mirrors, hasn't it? The only achievement seems to be that people who maybe otherwise felt isolated have felt emboldened to dismiss anti-Semtiism and stifle criticism.

Where has that energy and enthusiasm gone? There's that chant. You know the one: "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn!" but if we're looking for tangible success and achievement - what is there? Three years after what's apparently inspiring a political revolution what exactly is there to show for it?
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What did you expect? He doesn't want to be leader. He just enjoys ruffling feathers and he ended up in a position he didn't want to be in; having to put forward a credible proposal to run the country.
 
Oscie said:
Three years after what's apparently inspiring a political revolution what exactly is there to show for it?
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No more Tory majority and a Labour Mayor of London are the things that spring to mind. No 'revolution' yet, absolutely.

We're also three years from what was claimed by many from the centre and the right (EDIT - and myself) to be the Labour party dooming itself to unprecedented defeat. Which hasn't happened yet either.

We still don't know how this ends.
 
Oscie said:
Labour Live event ticket sales going very badly. Very low ticket sales and they're now resorting to giving tickets away. I alluded to this in another thread but has this whole 'Corbyn Revolution' thing been exposed? If you think of the apparent platform he has had for the past 3 years now, what has he achieved?

For the purposes of the question I'm ruling out: ensuring Jewish comedians on Twitter know their place, awesome memes and providing Paul Mason with a lucrative second career. Beyond that, what has been achieved? It's all been just smoke and mirrors, hasn't it? The only achievement seems to be that people who maybe otherwise felt isolated have felt emboldened to dismiss anti-Semtiism and stifle criticism.

Where has that energy and enthusiasm gone? There's that chant. You know the one: "Oh, Jeremy Corbyn!" but if we're looking for tangible success and achievement - what is there? Three years after what's apparently inspiring a political revolution what exactly is there to show for it?
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It's given you something to do with your time.
 
Yeah
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Labour cannot win an election, realistically, without reclaiming seats from the SNP in Scotland.

Latest YouGov opinion poll:

SNP: 40
Tory: 27
Lab: 23
LD: 7

Even after everything Labour still trail the Tories in Scotland, yet alone able to mount a challenge to the SNP. Tories, SNP and Lib Dems roughly where they polled in Scotland in the last General Election. Labour down from there about 4 points.

I don't mean to harp on (heaven forbid) but it really is telling about the state of this party that absolutely nobody is even interested in stuff like this any more.
 
Oscie said:
Labour cannot win an election, realistically, without reclaiming seats from the SNP in Scotland.

Latest YouGov opinion poll:

SNP: 40
Tory: 27
Lab: 23
LD: 7

Even after everything Labour still trail the Tories in Scotland, yet alone able to mount a challenge to the SNP. Tories, SNP and Lib Dems roughly where they polled in Scotland in the last General Election. Labour down from there about 4 points.

I don't mean to harp on (heaven forbid) but it really is telling about the state of this party that absolutely nobody is even interested in stuff like this any more.
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To be fair Corbyn's brand of politics wasn't exactly what killed Labour off here, even if he hasn't helped much since.
 
For me it really further undermines the narrative that they have to out-UKIP UKIP on Brexit else they'll never win an election again. That entire electoral calculation seems wholly disingenuous.

It's really crap hearing Labour MPs take the "I know I voted for Brexit and at the time I said at the time it would be a disaster for my constituents...but we really have to make it happen now, regardless" line as one did on Today yesterday morning.

People keep harping on about the Lib Dem poll rating as "proof" the Labour party is right to position themselves a hair's breadth away from being at risk of being endorsed by Katie Hopkins on Brexit. But in reality Lib Dem poll rating is because they betrayed their voters, particularly young voters, on tuition fees. To that end the fate of a party who attracted votes of those desperate to stop a Tory Brexit who then go on to ensure a Tory Brexit happens, will be interesting.
 
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Oscie said:
People keep harping on about the Lib Dem poll rating as "proof" the Labour party is right to position themselves a hair's breadth away from being at risk of being endorsed by Katie Hopkins on Brexit. But in reality Lib Dem poll rating is because they betrayed their voters, particularly young voters, on tuition fees.
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So maybe isn't not a good idea to go back on a referendum after almost everyone said it would be the only one.

Oscie said:
To that end the fate of a party who attracted votes of those desperate to stop a Tory Brexit who then go on to ensure a Tory Brexit happens, will be interesting.
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This doesn't actually mean anything you know, unless you're backing my idea of a pretend brexit where we tell the country we left but actually didn't, and, look, I wasn't being entirely serious because it won't work.
 
The Lib Dems are polling single figures because they betrayed their voters. So what Labour should do is ignore the 52% of the vote (and a majority of their constituencies) that went to leaving the EU. Flawless.
 
Dobba said:
The Lib Dems are polling single figures because they betrayed their voters. So what Labour should do is ignore the 52% of the vote (and a majority of their constituencies) that went to leaving the EU. Flawless.
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By the same token, do you think Labour is offering anything positive (in comparison to the Tories) for those who were remainers? Or will they just ignore that 48% like as if it's meaningless.

I genuinely don't think I've got a grasp on what Labour are offering as an alternative so I'm happy to be informed on this.
 
They must be doing, otherwise they'd be polling single figures. The manifesto was by far the biggest reason given at the last election for voting Labour. Which Oscie and co doesn't like to point out, whilst simultaneously sharing other polls run by that company as gospel, because it ruins the cult thing they insist on.
 
Dobba said:
They must be doing, otherwise they'd be polling single figures. The manifesto was by far the biggest reason given at the last election for voting Labour. Which Oscie and co doesn't like to point out, whilst simultaneously sharing other polls run by that company as gospel, because it ruins the cult thing they insist on.
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I think there will be a lot more apathy come the next election after Labour seemingly stood back and did very little while the Tories were floundering. I would assume a lot of remainers expected a more positive outlook (under a potential Labour government) than what we currently have right now. I think we'd get a pretty similar result to the last election and possibly a Tory majority.
 
Minimalist said:
I think there will be a lot more apathy come the next election after Labour seemingly stood back and did very little while the Tories were floundering. I would assume a lot of remainers expected a more positive outlook (under a potential Labour government) than what we currently have right now. I think we'd get a pretty similar result to the last election and possibly a Tory majority.
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Agreed, can see a lot of this current crop (on either side) coming out looking pretty bad in years to come if Brexit's a shit-show and nothing's done about it. I understand why Labour are ignoring it from a practical POV but long-term consequences might not be so good.
 
Dobba said:
The Lib Dems are polling single figures because they betrayed their voters. So what Labour should do is ignore the 52% of the vote (and a majority of their constituencies) that went to leaving the EU. Flawless.
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If we're talking Labour voters then the majority of them voted remain. Even if there's a clear contingent who supported Brexit.
 
But what was the point of it? What was debated? What was learned?

Is this what Labour now do, leave the politics to the Tories and just gather occasionally to cheer each other on?
 
Oscie said:
But what was the point of it? What was debated? What was learned?

Is this what Labour now do, leave the politics to the Tories and just gather occasionally to cheer each other on?
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You mean you’re criticising it without knowing a single thing about it? Colour me surprised.
 
Because that's the sole reason for the existence of the Labour party.
 
I asked what it was about.

Three answers. Two were nothing. One was "crowd size"

I find it absolutely fecking bonkers that people are okay that this is what the Labour party is now. It's not even cultist, it's just weird now. At least a cult has a purpose. This is just people impressed by a mutual interest mascaraing as serious political change.
 
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Oscie said:
But what was the point of it? What was debated? What was learned?

Is this what Labour now do, leave the politics to the Tories and just gather occasionally to cheer each other on?
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The Tories did this too fwiw. Last year.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree it’s all a bit blackslappy. And I ‘occasionally’ sympathise with your attempts to reign in the Corbyn-mania on here, but I don’t see the angle.

It’s not like they’re missing a crucial vote, or PMQs, to have a random rally piss up in a park. It’s just an attempt to engage more people by making politics a bit more fun. I don’t see the inherent problem. It seems an odd thing to complain about. Especially when a load of Right wing journos deliberately went early and took a lot of “empty, lol” pics in an obvious and calucuated attempt to mock it.
 
Oscie said:
But what was the point of it? What was debated? What was learned?

Is this what Labour now do, leave the politics to the Tories and just gather occasionally to cheer each other on?
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To not get ahead of yourself in your hatred for all things Corbyn.
 
Oscie said:
I asked what it was about.

Three answers. Two were nothing. One was "crowd size"

I find it absolutely fecking bonkers that people are okay that this is what the Labour party is now. It's not even cultist, it's just weird now. At least a cult has a purpose.
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Here a very long article about the event(I'll spoiler it so doesn't take up too much space)

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Mockney said:
The Tories did this too fwiw. Last year.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree it’s all a bit blackslappy. And I ‘occasionally’ sympathise with your attempts to reign in the Corbyn-mania on here, but I don’t see the angle.

It’s not like they’re missing a crucial vote, or PMQs, to have a random rally piss up in a park. It’s just an attempt to engage more people by making politics a bit more fun. I don’t see the inherent problem. Especially when a load of Right wing journos deliberately went early and took a lot of “empty, lol” pics in an obvious and calucuated attempt to mock it.
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But that's the problem, it's not that they're missing votes, it's that they're abstaining from crucial votes and helping the government but nobody's allowed to mention that now as politics is just this now.


 
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