Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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Did David Baddiel write that Tweet for you?
Predictable this threads completely skipped over the hilarious furore on social media in which Cobynites reacted with genuine hostility to a comedian doing satire and then accused David Baddiel of writing it, but definitely not because he's Jewish and the Corbynites have a huge problem with anti-semtisim they refuse to face up to, or anything.
I missed that, have you got a link to the story?
yep, we missed 2 people on twitter being antisemitic, clear and obvious example of this threads bias against even minded centrists
It was a greek newspaper for fecks sake.
Yeah...I'm finding that criticism a bit bizarre. Much as Corbyn's rhetoric on Brexit is somewhere between misguided and non-existent, I'm not sure what he was supposed to do in this case (presuming) he was asked about it. He was asked a simple question (again, I presume) and indicated his desire to make a nice gesture. Which is fair enough.
Yeah I know, I’m just pissed with him at the moment. The government are doing whatever the feck they like, and on Brexit he’s basically helping them do it.
I think the part of the anger/frustration at Corbyn is wither people think the whole second referendum would be popular and a risk worth taking. If Corbyn was to wake up tomorrow and proclaims that Labour position is a second referendum(Although he can't actually do this as I think it would have to be discussed at Labour Conference)and what follows is a media shit storm/calls of stopping democracy etc. Labour completely collapse in the polls, the PLP then try to get rid of him again and Labour lose any chance of winning a election, is that a risk worth taking ?
The other part I think is that it's got to be frustrating that biggest chance of getting another referendum is resting partly on the shoulders of someone who really doesn't like the EU at all.
So yeah I can understand why some people are very annoyed
Why is the risk always supposed to be that being pro-Brexit will lose the counties votes? Polling shows at least half the country would vote Remain in another referendum, yet it’s always discussed as if it’s the most dangerous politic gamble possible!
Seriously, May must be laughing her tits off. The eurosceptic party facing no serious opposition because their main rivals don’t want to scare off eurosceptics. It’s insane.
The Lib Dem surge in the polls is proof enough that being anti-Brexit is the only way people will vote for you. One I saw even had them in double figures.
He's an eu sceptic, what do you expect from him?
May is a remainer, what do you expect from her?
I mean...I sort of agree with this, in that it's clear Corbyn taking a position either way on Brexit will alienate him from swathes of voters within the party, but wasn't the benefit of Corbyn when he was picked as leader the fact that he was supposed to be a politician who fought on principles and ideals because he believed them to be right, even if he wasn't always popular with the public for those ideas? And isn't a significant part of his appeal the fact that instead of timidly accepting a right-wing agenda and moving to the centre, he instead fights back and tries to promote his own ideals?
Saying "we need to do this because this correct move we believe in isn't politically popular" is exactly what Blair, Brown and Miliband did for years, and it's exactly the reason many Labour voters grew tired with them and opted for a genuine left-wing alternative instead. Saying "this isn't good for our polling" is something that could've applied to austerity in the aftermath of the financial crisis. Or it's something that can generally be said in opposing any tightening of immigration. But Corbyn consistently fought on his own ideals, even when he was down in the polling, because that's meant to be his entire appeal as a politician!
I'm not naive enough to think of Corbyn as some saint who's going to be able to practice absolute standards of principle...politicking happens behind closed doors all the time and quite frankly he needs to be savvy and underhanded sometimes considering the number of factions he has working against him, both inside and outside the party. But if you fundamentally believe that Brexit is a fairly disastrous idea that's going to leave the country up the shitter economically, then it should be your job to oppose that. Because all of Corbyn's attractive ideas will be for nowt if the country he's trying to implement them in has been fecked over after a bad political decision he really should've been opposing. And if Corbyn doesn't think a prospective hard Brexit is a bad idea...then, well, yeah.
So yes. I get what you're saying. Corbyn coming out wearing a shirt with the EU flag on it and calling 52% of the British population racist clearly won't be a move that benefits him politically. But at the same time he's going to have to do something on Brexit, and saying it's not popular politically is weak cop-out when we've often consistently defended Corbyn based on his ideals even when his polling was genuinely dreadful. Part of why supporting either single market membership or remaining within the EU is unpopular domestically is because for years liberal politicians have regularly catered to the rhetoric of those who're anti-EU without ever planning to actually do anything about those concerns. Like when Ed was drinking from that daft "tough on immigration" mug. He had no plans to ever actually do anything about immigration, but made some absurd gesture to the right in the hope he might win over a Tory or two. Corbyn not speaking out against a hard Brexit because it might annoy people who might vote for him is similar to that. And the exact type of thing the Labour left have been criticising party figures for doing for years.
It won't just not benefit him politically. It'll change absolutely nothing regarding Brexit, because the voting numbers aren't there, plus I can't see the Tories being stupid enough to do anything that will lead to another election. The only effect it'll have on British politics is guarantee the Tories are in power for the next 20 years with Labour pitched as 'enemies of the people' who will look to overturn democracy when it doesn't suit them. It's whats so mindnumbingly baffling about people who want Labour to be the anti-Brexit party, usually 50 seconds after they've finished moaning that they're behind in poll X, Y or Z to the Tories. You know, the party pushing for the hardest Brexit possible.
Literally the only good thing about Brexit is the people who whinged that Corbyn's Labour was a party of protest and not interested in getting votes, complaining that they're not overlooking the lack of anti-Brexit votes to be a party of protest. Unfortunately, enough people want it to happen that it's going to.
Literally the only good thing about Brexit is the people who whinged that Corbyn's Labour was a party of protest and not interested in getting votes, complaining that they're not overlooking the lack of anti-Brexit votes to be a party of protest. Unfortunately, enough people want it to happen that it's going to.
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And (part) of the reason they aren't there is because for years those who are pro-EU have continuously succumbed to the demands and the rhetoric of hardline Eurosceptics. Again, this logic that the votes aren't there is the exact logic politicians like Miliband used when they tacitly accepted the austerity agenda and that more stringent controls on immigration. Narratives change. Sometimes quickly. Corbyn himself is a prime example of that; just over a year ago he was seen as hopeless and leading Labour to their doom. Within a couple of months he was leading a resurgent opposition who'd just given their best showing since 2005.
I'm not naive enough to think Corbyn opposing a hard Brexit would be particularly beneficial to his fortunes, but at the same time if he wants to lead a Britain where he can implement his ideals then seceding to the current Tory agenda isn't the way to do that. A hard Brexit would likely see a demand for tax cuts in order to placate worried businesses. It'd see the US try to decimate our regulations in any potential trade deals we try to come up with them. It'd embolden the hard Tory-right who'd see it as a definitive victory for them. It'd potentially put the Northern Ireland issue in a grim situation. Now, I know Corbyn's not in government, and I know he can't reverse whatever Theresa May intends to do, but if you're worried about all of the above then surely he should be arguing for us to remain in the single market? That's not reversing Brexit: that's just acknowledging the inherent problems in breaking off completely, and doesn't contradict the vote. And (again) it probably won't be particularly beneficial to him politically. But politics can change quickly, and I suspect if Brexit turn out to be a disaster and the public tide turns against it then Corbyn and other Labour politicians who seem to be okay with all of this will be judged harshly, and won't be anywhere near office afterwards.
It's not a simple case of Corbyn being able to just oppose a hard Brexit while also benefiting, however much Oscie may insist while ignoring wider political trends, but the "it's not popular" sentiment is incredibly roundabout and silly considering Corbynites have often (correctly) argued against such vacuous rhetoric on the other side.
Is Corbyn actually opposed to Brexit in the first place? Not the how, but the principle?
Eh...I'm unsure. He's historically Eurosceptic, but I'd like to think he's intelligent enough to be aware of all the pitfalls to Brexit at the same time. Certainly he should recognise the insanity of a hard Brexit.
When the entire debate is being centred around being anti-Brexit, the numbers are the only important bit. If, as is the accepted argument for why the pundits massively miscalled the last election, Labour benefited from people seeing them as opposed to Brexit regardless of the context when they're not, this is as good as it gets when you're fighting a battle on Brexit lines. A two point lead here, a three point loss there and polls that see them neck and neck. Now, unless a good portion of Tory voters are even weirder than I thought and they think they're the anti-Brexit party and Corbyn coming out against it will be the equivalent of a hypnotist clicking his fingers and them suddenly wanting to vote Labour I don't see how that changes, at least positively.
The only way the Tories are going to alter their approach to Brexit, is if they suddenly end up 20-30 points down in the polls week in, week out. Instead you'll have the 'remain' vote split between Labour voters and those who vote Lib Dem 'cause Corbyn doesn't want to nuke anyone who looks at us funny, the Labour voters who want to leave the EU going to the Tories and Brexit on viagra.
The only way the Tories are going to alter their approach to Brexit, is if they suddenly end up 20-30 points down in the polls week in, week out. Instead you'll have the 'remain' vote split between Labour voters and those who vote Lib Dem 'cause Corbyn doesn't want to nuke anyone who looks at us funny, the Labour voters who want to leave the EU going to the Tories and Brexit on viagra.
I'm unsure too. Seems a bit basic to me that we should know, but hey, the polls and all that, I'm obviously missing the big picture.
I seem to remember he was pretty honest during an appearance on The Last Leg and got pelters for not glorifying the EU as the world's greatest creation.
I've no idea what the last leg is, sorry.
Channel 4 'topical' comedy show. He was invited on just before the Brexit vote and rated the EU as 7 out of 10. Cue hysteria.
Thanks.
Typical traitorous backbench MP, who should be deselected, wasting time on this when there are important issues to be debated like giving back the Elgin marbles or...something about the House of Lords, that Jeremy has sought to raise in recent weeks.
So would bang?
Oh, be gone with this, it's tedious, and frankly I rather doubt Stella Creasy wants her work constantly framed in this way.
Hope something comes of the debate. It's an absolute nonsense of a situation in NI.
This is the problem, anything that's negative towards Corbyn is unwelcome, 'tedious'. There exists absolutely no substantive debate whatsoever either internally or externally about the leadership of the Labour party. We should be asking why back-bench Labour MPs are constantly the ones to raise debates, make amendments and rebel against their own party's whip in order to defeat the govt on a range of issues. Everyone's just sleepwalking through a reality where it doesn't matter if the Tories win elections as long as nobody criticises Corbyn.
Good to see her taking 5 minutes out from taking selfies with Tories to troll people on the left and doing her job.
No, you linking every sodding thing to Corbynistas is tedious, Oscie. It's just bait for Dobbs and Silva and it's a fecking boring read to watch you have the same conversation over and over.
If you want to have a serious conversation about women's rights in Northern Ireland you don't turn it in to a complaint about something else. If you want to have a serious debate about Labour leadership not tackling issues that matter to you then pretending this has anything to do with his brief comments on other matters is not the way to go about it.
You won't get serious debate if you're not serious.
nah it checks out, we all remember how often other leaders of the opposition personally wrote amendments to bills
Something similar was tried in 2008, only for it to be stop by a Labour government. Hopefully there will be more success this time around, as the situation in North is just beyond stupid.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...n-rights-northern-ireland-time-it-s-different
https://www.newstatesman.com/politi...n-rights-northern-ireland-time-it-s-different
I don't see how their system works if they don't sort out abortion and same-sex marriage. As I said in another thread, they're increasingly becoming their own country and no one supports that.
No, you taking something positive from a Labour MP and finding any way to link it to Corbyn is tedious. Good on Creasy for this one, solid work from her - your insistence on bizarrely bringing Corbyn into it isn't really needed though.
The British State presents - The Land That Time Forgot.
Very old and awful movie reference
It's accurate. Both ourselves and the Irish are cracking on with our own thing and just awkwardly pretending they don't exist, because that's what a lot of their government (well, if they had one) wants us to do. It's not a great long term plan.
Stop stifling Oscie's debate by disagreeing with him guys. Why is no one allowed to criticise Corbyn in here without someone disagreeing with them??
I found Oscie twitter account