As does pure unadulterated capitalism, which is the type of capitalism rife in western societies today.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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As does pure unadulterated capitalism, which is the type of capitalism rife in western societies today.
I’m a bit late to this argument, but excellent posts.
One of the problems of political discourse today is that people want to argue the toss over things that used to be self-evident. Point out that historically Labour's local election results were underwhelming and that it really isn't good enough given the crises this government lurches between each week, and some will argue the toss. Even the facts aren't facts any more. And that causes a lot of the frustration and disaffection. Whether we're pretending that we can magic up a solution to the Irish border issue suddenly or pretending that winning an election in 2005 was a worse result to losing it in 2017 because the vote share was higher, there isn't even a consensus these days over things that are evidently true or false.
From This Week, 'are we past peak-Corbyn?' My answer would be yes, since Corbynites have created their own ceiling by hating 'centrists' even more than Tories.
It's quite difficult to assess where we are with Corbyn. On the one hand, considering the feck-ups from the Tories I think it's fair to say people who support him should be disappointed that he hasn't managed to build substantially on last year's election and start mounting consistent and noticeable polling victories over the Tories.
But at the same time, it feels like people desperate to cast him off as finished are the very same people who did so in 2016 and early 2017, and who loudly proclaimed that May would walk to an easy majority after she called her election. Corbyn, for all his many faults, is a very strong campaigner, and tends to do best when he's got something definite to work towards. Feels silly and premature to write him off after what we saw last year. Although a lot of the people writing him off have been eager to do so since day one anyway.
But at the same time, it feels like people desperate to cast him off as finished are the very same people who did so in 2016 and early 2017, and who loudly proclaimed that May would walk to an easy majority after she called her election. Corbyn, for all his many faults, is a very strong campaigner, and tends to do best when he's got something definite to work towards. Feels silly and premature to write him off after what we saw last year. Although a lot of the people writing him off have been eager to do so since day one anyway.
That's a fair point, and to add to it I'd say he can be a much stronger campaigner than expected. Where he's lacking though is 'something definite to work towards', because the biggest issue of the day is Brexit, and on that his leadership is non-existent.
I'd say it's about the same position as the last GE.
Agreed.
Poor misunderstood centrists. How did their favourite Tory MPs vote on the Windrush and Leveson proposals by the way?
Yeah, I do think that's by far his weakest point. I've largely been understanding of his stance so far because either way he'll alienate significant elements of the party, but at some point you expect a serious, credible politician to be able to argue in favour of the most sensible politician.
Poor misunderstood extremists, always wanting everything their way. Always shouting down anyone who disagrees.
Brexit will do to its advocates and facilitators, what Iraq did to its own. Corbyn won't escape the judgement of history by trying to be ambivalent about it.
I'm sure there's a connection to my post somewhere but it's not obvious, sorry.
The centrists spend every waking moment, that they're not talking down the Labour leadership, 'bigging up' their list of moderate Tories, usually headed by Anna Soubry. How did these people, that they clearly hold more respect for than those supposedly in their party, vote on those two issues?
Will their votes on these issues be different than all the previous ones that these centrists have managed to gloss over, when they appear on every medium that will have them to talk about how great those Tories are?
Remember though, it's people like Laura Pidcock that are the real problem. If we all join hands with these 'moderate Tories' utopia is just around the corner.
This is slightly bizarre. I started off by saying Corbyn has peaked electorally, as Corbynites have created their own ceiling by hating centrists more than the Tories, and you respond by trying to paint non-Corbyn centrists as huge Tory-lovers, nicely proving the point I made in the first place.
I'm one of those nutters who have a dislike for people who spent months calling people like me entryist trots and tried to deny me the right to vote for the leadership candidate I wanted, whilst simultaneously brown nosing members of the opposition. Wishy washy leftie cult member, me. I'm playing by the rules set up by the centrists.
Oh and how dare I label centrists Tory loving. I'd have to have a series of examples of the most vocal anti-Corbyn Labour MPs rushing to TV studios and newspaper columns to talk about how great their Tory counterparts are, just after people had faced party discipline for speaking favourably of other policies from other parties. Or one that is massively against calling for members of their own party to be deselected...unless they're saying it.
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Yes, Corbynites hate centrists, I get it. How they intend to gain power without the votes of centrists, and some Tories too of course, is beyond me. Which is why I posted 'Corbynites have created their own ceiling' in the first place, because it looks like they have.
Whereas of course, calling people entryists trots and trying to block them from voting or calling for a fellow Labour MP (with one of the biggest majorities in the country) to be sacked was a compliment. I believe those creepy pick up artists call it negging.
Now suddenly the boot is on the other foot and the rules change. The people who had the BBC help orchestrate a mass resignation from the shadow cabinet are all about party unity.
Have they though? The next election will be after between 9-12 years of Tory rule, if I've got my numbers right. There is not, at present, a promising option for the Conservative Party leadership. I'm very skeptical of the idea that people will more influenced by the harder elements of the left being rude to them than the rest.
Can't wait till Corbyn gets in and throws some of you lot in the Gulag. You won't be spouting centrist drivel in there I can tell you.
Even as someone who's been fairly critical of aspects of Corbyn's leadership and some of his tactical moves, I feel like it's wrong to suggest he's attempted to alienate the centrists from the moment he stepped into office or that he hasn't thrown them any bones. Shadow Home and Foreign Secretary were given to Burnham and Benn respectively. He's largely backed down on his pro-Republican and anti-nuclear stances.
Certain elements of the party could perhaps rein it in a bit but I do understand there frustration. Corbyn tends to be undermined by the rest of his party at the slightest whim of a problem, when you'd typically expect the opposition to be building on what they already have.
Certain elements of the party could perhaps rein it in a bit but I do understand there frustration. Corbyn tends to be undermined by the rest of his party at the slightest whim of a problem, when you'd typically expect the opposition to be building on what they already have.
The Gulag...
... I thought he was going to send us up to the shipyards and down to the mines so we could learn the error of our bourgeois ways (after he had reopened and nationalized them by taxing all our money off us)We have various plans for your sort. No decision has been taken yet.The Gulag...
All fully costed, no doubt.
something like this though I assume?
That said he will probably nationalise the trains first so there no chance he will be able to ship us all off for "re-eduaction" as the drivers will all be on strike
All fully costed, no doubt.
Of course.
That's pretty fecking grim.something like this though I assume?
That said he will probably nationalise the trains first so there no chance he will be able to ship us all off for "re-eduaction" as the drivers will all be on strike
I forget, do you work in trains or just a related area?
related... I sell turnkey infrastructure schemes (bridges, etc) or provide small parts of larger schemes (HS2 etc)
Of course.
That's pretty fecking grim.
I forget, do you work in trains or just a related area?
I thought that was probably the one. I genuinely have no idea where HS2 is up to.
Funnily enough I'm not sure hs2 do either... it's a massive and complex scheme... some of the enabling has started... suspect we are a couple of years away from heavy civil
Bloody good question, will they allow my retired railwayman's free pass on it or not? If they do it's a much-needed step forward for British transport infrastructure, if they don't they can feck off, it's an unnecessary waste of taxpayer's money.
He's not very aggressive as leader, is he? He doesn't really push his agenda. You don't really see him do a media blitz, do the rounds, hard-sell a policy. He occasionally makes a speech that few people pick up on then he seems to disappear for two or three weeks. By far his leadership has been defined by the ferocity with which his cheerleaders cheer rather than anything in particular he says or does. Fully in mind that this'll prompt responses that I'm a Tory, but I remember Cameron and Blair before him being all over the news media like diarrhoea on a toilet bowl pushing the message and hammering it home.
If you told me Corbyn works a 2 day week I wouldn't be surprised. He's quite part-time. Or so it seems. Massive, huge news stories and events come and go and even in papers where Corbyn would get a fair hearing he very rarely has much to say on anything. If you stripped it all back what most people probably think defines Jeremy Corbyn is what other people say about him - positive and negative - rather than anything he's really ever said himself.
Even when people cite anything about him it's usually something that predates his leadership. Quoting his Hezbollah comments or citing that picture where he was arrested at an anti-racism march. Maybe because as leader he hasn't really done much? You can't even say that he's just 'there', because most of the time he isn't.
If you told me Corbyn works a 2 day week I wouldn't be surprised. He's quite part-time. Or so it seems. Massive, huge news stories and events come and go and even in papers where Corbyn would get a fair hearing he very rarely has much to say on anything. If you stripped it all back what most people probably think defines Jeremy Corbyn is what other people say about him - positive and negative - rather than anything he's really ever said himself.
Even when people cite anything about him it's usually something that predates his leadership. Quoting his Hezbollah comments or citing that picture where he was arrested at an anti-racism march. Maybe because as leader he hasn't really done much? You can't even say that he's just 'there', because most of the time he isn't.
Which one's would those be? The Morning Star?
He wants to be the man who negotiates a "better" deal with European leaders than the Tories. Not saying this necessarily applies to you but I do find it frequently incredible that some proclaim Corbyn to be the man to lead us through troubled times and simultaneously someone who couldn't possible be expected to overcome the fact a few newspapers don't like him. So he has a largely hostile press. So what? He does nothing to challenge that or to get his message across and there are media outlets where he would at least get an opportunity to put his case, but he very rarely seems interested.
The government has been on the ropes over so much over the last few months. Rarely has Corbyn been seen outside of mandatory appearances in the Commons. It's a bizarre media strategy when the government of the day is getting hammer from all sides for the leader of the opposition to routinely go into virtual hiding for days on end. Especially if, as claimed, he is this popular, persuasive figure.
In terms of media appearances and good old fashion 'getting the message across' there are several members of his shadow cabinet or by far make more media appearances than he does. Which again doesn't really marry up with the idea that he's a robust, popular and persuasive leader when he shuns media appearances because they don't like him and thinks other people are better suited at delivering his message than he is. He can't be both things at the same time.
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So fecking depressing.
This govt should be miles behind in polls. Any Labour leader should be on course for three-figure majority in '..if held tomorrow' hypothetical projections. Betraying a generation.