Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

[DOTA]

I don't know what your point is.
I don't know how we glean her political stand point from the message. Hard left would be a reach though.
I don't know what Momentum is. (I do now, Google helped. I've been overseas)

It works best if you just assume anything our Irwin posts is cringey propaganda, of the level that make even those of us who gladly take the mantle of 'hard left' wish to step away.

 

[Boycott]

Labour have scored an own goal here

I get why Corbyn has made this decision but it's going to take a hit with the young voters he built so much good will from

 

[Silva]

Labour have scored an own goal here

I get why Corbyn has made this decision but it's going to take a hit with the young voters he built so much good will from

I'm inclined to agree but also think that only those of us who are political nerds, and therefore quite set in our thinking and political allegiances, will remember the details for long.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

I'm inclined to agree but also think that only those of us who are political nerds, and therefore quite set in our thinking, will remember the details for long.

Yeah, at the risk of sounding condescending, I think *some* (absolutely not all) of the youngsters who have been engaged with politics because of Corbyn have done so because...it was cool and he can do very little wrong.

The Tories are baddies, Corbyn's a good guy, good enough for me, Jack.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

It works best if you just assume anything our Irwin posts is cringey propaganda, of the level that make even those of us who gladly take the mantle of 'hard left' wish to step away.

Cheers. I wondered why nobody had replied.

 

[Silva]

Yeah, at the risk of sounding condescending, I think *some* (absolutely not all) of the youngsters who have been engaged with politics because of Corbyn have done so because...it was cool and he can do very little wrong.

The Tories are baddies, Corbyn's a good guy, good enough for me, Jack.

Nah, younger people were engaged by Brexit and coincidentally lean left. Corbyn's just at the right place at the right time to take advantage of this age division.

 

[17 Van der Gouw]

Nah, younger people were engaged by Brexit and coincidentally lean left. Corbyn's just at the right place at the right time to take advantage of this age division.

Ah, y'see man I'm not so sure about that. Whilst Brexit certainly highlighted the divide between old and young, I can't help but feel that a lot of the less politically astute youngsters who got behind Corbyn did so because he was in vogue, and was offering lots of shiny free stuff. All I'm doing here is sound like an asshole and painting young Labour voters as being naive, but surely if the youngsters were all about Brexit first and foremost, then the Lib Dems would have really surged?

 

[Silva]

Ah, y'see man I'm not so sure about that. Whilst Brexit certainly highlighted the divide between old and young, I can't help but feel that a lot of the less politically astute youngsters who got behind Corbyn did so because he was in vogue, and was offering lots of shiny free stuff. All I'm doing here is sound like an asshole and painting young Labour voters as being naive, but surely if the youngsters were all about Brexit first and foremost, then the Lib Dems would have really surged?

The lib dems voted for tuition fee rises, so they're fecked until the current toddlers get the vote. I didn't mean that it's about Brexit though, I meant they were engaged into the political sphere, and their overall politic is left leaning - perfect for a Corbyn character.

 

[Boycott]

This amendment was never going to get passed. With that in mind I feel Corbyn shouldn't have sacked those ministers but instead told them now the position is certain regarding the single market. If they didn't want to follow through with it, resign.

Corbyn sacking them so soon after parliament has come back gives the tories ammo.

Of course you can argue the amendment shouldn't have got passed through but there is a base of voters who wanted it. Chuka played to the crowd knowing it wouldn't pass.

 

[Sweet Square]

Ah, y'see man I'm not so sure about that. Whilst Brexit certainly highlighted the divide between old and young, I can't help but feel that a lot of the less politically astute youngsters who got behind Corbyn did so because he was in vogue, and was offering lots of shiny free stuff. All I'm doing here is sound like an asshole and painting young Labour voters as being naive, but surely if the youngsters were all about Brexit first and foremost, then the Lib Dems would have really surged?

Maybe just maybe young people have a more complex view on the EU.

 

[DenisIrwin]

I don't know what your point is.
I don't know how we glean her political stand point from the message. Hard left would be a reach though.
I don't know what Momentum is. (I do now, Google helped. I've been overseas)

I was making a point about Momentum really. I've described it (to my daughter's ex) as "a bit like a Jeremy Corbyn fan club", because that was my perception. It kinda irks me that there is an entrenched view in many peoples' minds that it's some kind of dangerous hard-left bunch of militant rebels - with lots of variation on that theme perpetuated in the right-wing media (like the Mail, Sun and BBC). If only people like the woman that tweeted above went along they'd feel very much at home - and definitely not among dangerous radicals.

 

[DenisIrwin]

It works best if you just assume anything our Irwin posts is cringey propaganda, of the level that make even those of us who gladly take the mantle of 'hard left' wish to step away.

I take that as a personal insult and a misrepresentation. That's OK though. Whatever.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I was making a point about Momentum really. I've described it (to my daughter's ex) as "a bit like a Jeremy Corbyn fan club", because that was my perception. It kinda irks me that there is an entrenched view in many peoples' minds that it's some kind of dangerous hard-left bunch of militant rebels - with lots of variation on that theme perpetuated in the right-wing media (like the Mail, Sun and BBC). If only people like the woman that tweeted above went along they'd feel very much at home - and definitely not among dangerous radicals.

I have never heard the term "Hard-Left" used authentically. To you, what does that mean?

To your point, why does the person that tweeted need to go anywhere? People need to stop picking teams.

 

[DOTA]

I take that as a personal insult and a misrepresentation. That's OK though. Whatever.

It was. I shouldn't have said it.

 

[DenisIrwin]

I have never heard the term "Hard-Left" used authentically. To you, what does that mean?

To your point, why does the person that tweeted need to go anywhere? People need to stop picking teams.

Maybe she would like a really good cup of tea.

 

[Sweet Square]

There will never be a silly time for these cnuts, we had so called Labour MPs saying they wouldn't back Corbyn as Prime Minister during an election. Chuka is having a little cry that he didn't make Corbyn's shadow cabinet and dragging a few deluded souls down with him.

Pretty much

 

[Dobba]

The Venn diagram of people who have complained for 2 years about Corbyn wanting to lead a party of protest and those who backed Umunna is very an interesting one.

 

[DenisIrwin]

The Venn diagram of people who have complained for 2 years about Corbyn wanting to lead a party of protest and those who backed Umunna is very an interesting one.

What's one to make of it all - a new word order?

 

[ivaldo]

How many times did he defy the whip? Imagine if this was May. She'd have been torn to shreds here.

 

[DenisIrwin]

How many times did he defy the whip? Imagine if this was May. She'd have been torn to shreds here.

Never from the front bench and most often on the right side of history. Umunna never stood a chance of winning. He did it purely to upset the apple cart and needs to go, imo.

 

[Oscie]

Never from the front bench and most often on the right side of history. Umunna never stood a chance of winning. He did it purely to upset the apple cart and needs to go, imo.

So rebelling from the back-bench is okay if you're Jeremy Corbyn but if Umunna does it he needs to go?

Weren't you the one in the election thread suggesting criticism of Diane Abbott's car crash interviews was racist?

Interesting take on 'If the white guy does it..' here, considering that.

 

[Pexbo]

So rebelling from the back-bench is okay if you're Jeremy Corbyn but if Umunna does it he needs to go?

Weren't you the one in the election thread suggesting criticism of Diane Abbott's car crash interviews was racist?

Interesting take on 'If the white guy does it..' here, considering that.

You can't be fired from the back bench.

 

[Oscie]

You can't be fired from the back bench.

Indeed but I assume the suggestions around getting rid of rebellious MPs are based around deselections.

 

[Cheesy]

I can understand the frustration within Labour (centrist or left) at the lack of standing up for single-market membership, but right now, just weeks after an election when the party was finally appearing united, was not the ideal time to defy Corbyn.

The Tories will lead Brexit negotiations barring another election which sees Labour assume power. Corbyn knows this. As a result, he's playing his cards close to his chest, currently claiming he's against single-market membership but probably willing to reverse that by being a tad unclear, so that if it all goes tits up he can claim the moral high-ground without having looked properly anti-Brexit. At least that's what I think he's doing. Going against him made little sense.

 

[Oscie]

But at what point does a Labour MP stand up for retention of single market access if not when the government is on the ropes and negotiations have started?

Hurtling out of the single market because it wasn't seen as an opportune moment to mention it because "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" would be unforgivable betrayal of people who voted Labour, most of whom want to stay in then single market

 

[Cheesy]

But at what point does a Labour MP stand up for retention of single market access if not when the government is on the ropes and negotiations have started?

I'm not sure yet. I don't think anyone really is. But I don't think Chuka's rebellion was particularly wise, or necessary. Especially considering his supposed future ambitions for leader. Only causes further friction in the party.

 

[Oscie]

I'm not sure yet. I don't think anyone really is. But I don't think Chuka's rebellion was particularly wise, or necessary. Especially considering his supposed future ambitions for leader. Only causes further friction in the party.

You're probably right. Just frustrating when Labour, with pro-Remain Tories and other opposition parties could really hold the governments feet to the fire on Brexit. Instead we're supposed to be star struck that he got a good hand at Glastonbury and leave the negotiations to this shambles of a government.

 

[Cheesy]

You're probably right. Just frustrating when Labour, with pro-Remain Tories and other opposition parties could really hold the governments feet to the fire on Brexit. Instead we're supposed to be star struck that he got a good hand at Glastonbury and leave the negotiations to this shambles of a government.

You're overestimating them, to be honest. They'll complain and criticise but when push comes to shove they'll take a pro-Brexit Tory government over any form of Labour government. Otherwise they wouldn't be Tories. We hopefully will see the government held to account on this but Corbyn and Labour also need to take into account their own standing ahead of any future elections; simply dismissing the prospect of leaving the free-market completely while it remains a fairly popular idea may not go down too well with voters. And it'd largely be wasted energy when it's going to happen anyway, barring a sudden change in government.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

You're overestimating them, to be honest. They'll complain and criticise but when push comes to shove they'll take a pro-Brexit Tory government over any form of Labour government. Otherwise they wouldn't be Tories. We hopefully will see the government held to account on this but Corbyn and Labour also need to take into account their own standing ahead of any future elections; simply dismissing the prospect of leaving the free-market completely while it remains a fairly popular idea may not go down too well with voters. And it'd largely be wasted energy when it's going to happen anyway, barring a sudden change in government.

This is the key really, looking at how the Lib Dems fared with their rhetoric around Brexit Labour are best placed right now being very coy and responding to what the Government do. As the reality of negotiations set in I would not be surprised to see Labour change their current official stance.

 

[Cheesy]

This is the key really, looking at how the Lib Dems fared with their rhetoric around Brexit Labour are best placed right now being very coy and responding to what the Government do. As the reality of negotiations set in I would not be surprised to see Labour change their current official stance.

Yeah, initially the fear would've been ceding territory to the Lib Dems during the election due to their expected mini-surge, but in the end it didn't materialise. As it stands most voters are plopping for one of two options: the party saying, "We don't like this, but it's happening anyway" is going to be the more appealing one to most voters, I expect. Especially when their position is liable to change.

 

[ThierryHenry]

This is the key really, looking at how the Lib Dems fared with their rhetoric around Brexit Labour are best placed right now being very coy and responding to what the Government do. As the reality of negotiations set in I would not be surprised to see Labour change their current official stance.

So the real fight... still hasn't started?



Not during the referendum, not in the post referendum period, not when we voted to activate article 50, not during the general election, and not now? Got it.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Labour needs to get on script about the single market. Either advocate a Scandinavian type deal or drop it entirely. Anything that looks like a concession to the referendum is electoral poison.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Why that Norweigan deal might not be palatable to the electorate:

By agreeing to an EFTA Norwegian style deal, of sorts, we would be remaining in the single market, therefore accepting the four freedoms; goods, people, services and capital. We would also guarantee UK citizens freedom of movement at home and abroad with continuing European citizenship.

There are still downsides though; access to the single market is partial in a sense that fisheries and agricultural are excluded. As an EFTA country, we would be sat outside of the EU Custom Union; leaving us subject to European Court of Justice laws and still subject to bureaucratic custom checks.

 

[ArmchairCritic]

So the real fight... still hasn't started?



Not during the referendum, not in the post referendum period, not when we voted to activate article 50, not during the general election, and not now? Got it.

Even if whole Labour Party votes for that amendment they still lose right? And at the same point they risk ceding their momentum and giving the Tory party some string to play with. I think the reality is we're getting what we are getting and there's nothing to really stop it, the amendment reflected that desperation. The best thing Labour can do is stay electable, hope there's an election within the next 2 years and then take stock on their stance if they are elected. They only way they can change stance now is if it gains traction within the Tory Party, but that is not going to happen right now.

It's all the in game, yo.

 

[Sweet Square]

So the real fight... still hasn't started?



Not during the referendum, not in the post referendum period, not when we voted to activate article 50, not during the general election, and not now? Got it.

Didn't you vote Lib Dem ?

 

[ThierryHenry]

Didn't you vote Lib Dem ?

Yeah boi

 

[711]

You can't be fired from the back bench.

You can be fired from the parliamentary party, the term used is 'having the whip withdrawn'.

 

[Sweet Square]

Yeah boi

So what are you expecting from a Corbyn lead Left wing Labour Party then ?

 

[ThierryHenry]

So what are you expecting from a Corbyn lead Left wing Labour Party then ?

What are you suggesting?

I'm a member of the Labour Party. And even if I wasn't, I can criticise the decisions and policies of the party.

 

[Sweet Square]

What are you suggesting?

I'm a member of the Labour Party. And even if I wasn't, I can criticise the decisions and policies of the party.

You seem to be expecting Corbyn and those high up in the Labour Party to be entirely different politicians, the annoyance at Corbyn for not having a favourable view of the EU both during and after the referendum(Even though it has been clear that Corbyn has never being a big of the EU)and seemingly a annoyance at Corbyn and Labour for changing the election debate from Brexit to other issues(Austerity,NHS,Foreign Policy).