Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Mciahel Goodman said:
Well, the counter argument I guess is that it's better to have a centrist Labour Party in power than a right of centre Tory party. But I agree with you in general. A split has to, and obviously will, happen. Best case scenario would be unions and Momentum organising a solid grass roots campaign for candidates to stand against various rebel MPs. Something to build on, and genuine opposition. It's all about the long term now, just a shame it's had to happen this way.
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The long term is what matters. Corbyn has inherent weaknesses. But in his message and integrity I see no fault.

You can have a 'now' 'centrist' party made up of people who not only lack integrity, but were willing to send people to their deaths under fasle pretenses and willing to cover up findings on the decision.

Do we want such people leading our country?

And to address the shallow thinking that everyone who voted Leave is wrong.

We are a complex country. Many people voted 'leave' thinking it would never happen. fyi I did not really vote. I am in the US. But I voted Leave here on the poll. Many mates and relatives did vote Leave. And I know they are not racists.

I wont go into the reason here. Its been discussed elswhere.

But such a vote should Never have been brought to a referandum.

That is where the fault lies.
 
@Mciahel Goodman What is important is all Labour voters stand behind the wishes of the members. That is the key point you made. Not get up to these dirty tricks when things do not go your way.

And if that is not to their liking. Leave and vote for whichever party they want...or go form another party.

Stand behind the courage of your convictions.
 
Red Dreams said:
@Mciahel Goodman What is important is all Labour voters stand behind the wishes of the members. That is the key point you made. Not get up to these dirty tricks when things do not go your way.
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Voters don't just "fall in line", you have to win the argument to win over voters and win elections. Jeremy isn't doing that, he and his team seem pretty terrible at spreading a message beyond those already converted. That's my main concern here.

And if that is not to their liking. Leave and vote for whichever party they want...or go form another party.

Stand behind the courage of your convictions.
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:lol: Well yes, that's the worry. People ultimately not voting for the Labour Party.
 
The issue here is whether you've got a vision for the country, whether you can provide strong leadership to unite the Labour party and heal our country in these dangerous times. I believe I have got all those qualities.
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Says the women who in every interview so far has abstained on any policy discussions. What's your vision Angela?
 
ThierryHenry said:
Voters don't just "fall in line", you have to win the argument to win over voters and win elections. Jeremy isn't doing that, he and his team seem pretty terrible at spreading a message beyond those already converted. That's my main concern here.


:lol: Well yes, that's the worry. People ultimately not voting for the Labour Party.
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JC won the leadership election overwhelmingly. Every by-election the LP has contested since he became leader has been won. He has a record of vote winning, other than the Brexit vote - and the fact that he is being singled out for blame for losing that is ridiculous. Angela Eagle, in the midst of Brexit campaigning, said on the 13th June, "Jeremy is up and down the country, pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25yo tired, he has not stopped".

She also said, in the leadup to the leadership contest, "Throughout this election I have called for an end to infighting amongst different groups in our party. As a democrat, I have said all along that I will be loyal to whichever leader the party chooses; the wisdom of the party is more important than any faction. Over 35 years in the Labour Party has taught me that the collective wisdom our our members and grassroots should never be dismissed". Her voting record is: FOR the invasion of Iraq, FOR increase in university tuition fees, FOR stricter asylum laws, FOR introduction of ID cards, FOR detention without charge for 90 days, FOR Heathrow extension, FOR Trident, FOR air strikes on Iraq, FOR air strikes on Syria, AGAINST investigation into Iraq war.

I foresee a new slogan: Lies like an Eagle.
 
Ubik said:
Stupid or just one you don't want to answer? I'm curious because Eagle is probably to the left of Miliband, let alone Blair and Brown.

Anyway, here's more polling of the unions

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Not sure how much truth is this but



Pretty awful if true.
 
ThierryHenry said:
Voters don't just "fall in line", you have to win the argument to win over voters and win elections. Jeremy isn't doing that, he and his team seem pretty terrible at spreading a message beyond those already converted. That's my main concern here.


:lol: Well yes, that's the worry. People ultimately not voting for the Labour Party.
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I agree that JC and his team need to push their message. First he needs to take all those knives out of his back. As I said. What is the alternative? More austerity? Do people believe we cannot do better?

And what is the Labour Party? I would define the Labour party by its members views.
 
Sweet Square said:
Pretty awful if true.
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People should know by now to ignore the less comprehensive polls. Even if you're kind (perhaps naive) and assume they're not done to a narrative and the most favourable isnt just chosen from a selection, even then the only ones released to the wider media are the ones that suit.

YouGov are just as bad as Sky or Daily Mail polls. I know people who have worked at similar companies and they're dubious to say the least.
 


This has at least provided a nice metaphor for the state of the UK
 
Sweet Square said:
Not sure how much truth is this but



Pretty awful if true.
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If the word "sinister forces" is in a response, you can disregard. They've been reading conspiracy theories written by someone with a history of anti-semitism.
 
Ubik said:
If the word "sinister forces" is in a response, you can disregard. They've been reading conspiracy theories written by someone with a history of anti-semitism.
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That, or they're familiar with the works of Ashcroft.

Red Dreams said:
@Mciahel Goodman What is important is all Labour voters stand behind the wishes of the members. That is the key point you made. Not get up to these dirty tricks when things do not go your way.

And if that is not to their liking. Leave and vote for whichever party they want...or go form another party.

Stand behind the courage of your convictions.
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I agree. It's more irritating than anything else. The last month has been completely wasted in terms of attacking a weakened Tory government.
 
Although, in fairness, Yougov is pretty reliable as far as polls go (and pretty bipartisan). It would depend on their sample size, methods, etc, obviously.
 
Mciahel Goodman said:
I agree. It's more irritating than anything else. The last month has been completely wasted in terms of attacking a weakened Tory government.
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The Tory government has been badly weakened by this vote. Labour can come back, through a coalition of parties who all hate the Torries.

But JC needs to rid himself of these traitors.
 
Red Dreams said:
The Tory government has been badly weakened by this vote. Labour can come back, through a coalition of parties who all hate the Torries.

But JC needs to rid himself of these traitors.
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I think they need to stop pretending a majority is attainable and as you say group together a very public alliance with the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens to fight together in the Brexit discussions.

It doesn't need a new party it just needs all left of centre parties to work together in attacking the Tories and holding the goverment accountable.
 
http://evolvepolitics.com/angela-eagle-may-pull-leadership-race-corbyn-ballot/

EvolvePolitics understands that if the National Executive Committee (NEC) decides in favour of Jeremy Corbyn being on the ballot, Angela Eagle will consider stepping down as a challenger.

A Labour source cited the unprecedented backlash against Ms Eagle’s campaign on social media from those loyal to Jeremy Corbyn, and the Labour MP for Wallasey is said to be already considering the potential fallout from what would ‘almost certainly be a landslide’ loss.

Ms Eagle’s social media campaign has already come in for huge criticism online, with over 40,000 people showing their support for Jeremy Corbyn on her Facebook page.

Angela Eagle only launched her campaign yesterday, but it has already become clear that Jeremy Corbyn’s support has ‘not wavered’, and Ms Eagle is said to see a ‘fair contest’ (with Mr Corbyn on the ballot) as an ‘unwinnable fight’.


There have also been reports in the media that Owen Smith could also be about to challenge Mr Corbyn for Labour’s top job, and those close to Ms Eagle’s campaign are said to be concerned about diluting the vote against the Labour leader.

Labour’s NEC is set to decide on whether Jeremy Corbyn will be on the ballot later today, and it is widely expected that the Committee will vote in favour of the Labour leader.

EvolvePolitics have contacted Angela Eagle about this story, but as yet have received no response.
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People need to stop writing about this as if it's being decided as a straight decision whether he's on or off the ballot. The question is whether he needs to be nominated, by 20% (20%!) of his parliamentary colleagues. If he resigned and sought the nominations again, it would be even less than that.
 
Cheesy said:
And the bolded bit is the central problem. Eagle is essentially admitting that in order to defeat Corbyn, she'll need to do so in a manner which ignores the overwhelming wishes of the party members.
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She's just incredibly incompetent. It's the worst leadership challenge I've ever seen.
 
Ubik said:
People need to stop writing about this as if it's being decided as a straight decision whether he's on or off the ballot. The question is whether he needs to be nominated, by 20% (20%!) of his parliamentary colleagues. If he resigned and sought the nominations again, it would be even less than that.
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That's the same thing just rephrased in a way suited to your preference :lol:

It's quite clear he should be automatically on the ballot so the pertinent question is whether they're going to bend that to leave him off.
 
Smores said:
That's the same thing just rephrased in a way suited to your preference :lol:

It's quite clear he should be automatically on the ballot so the pertinent question is whether they're going to bend that to leave him off.
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If that were the case, there wouldn't be multiple bits of legal advice saying conflicting things.

And it's not the same thing at all, he's not being forcibly kept off the ballot. He's being asked to show he has support from a HUGE 20% of the people he's supposed to lead, or 15% if he resigned and ran again. Seriously, not even a majority, not even a third, not even a quarter. 1 in 5.

For what it's worth, I think he needs to be automatically on the ballot, it's just too much of a shitshow otherwise. But I also think that someone that can't muster 15% of his colleagues' signatures to demonstrate support within the party is laughable.
 
DenisIrwin said:
JC won the leadership election overwhelmingly. Every by-election the LP has contested since he became leader has been won. He has a record of vote winning, other than the Brexit vote - and the fact that he is being singled out for blame for losing that is ridiculous. Angela Eagle, in the midst of Brexit campaigning, said on the 13th June, "Jeremy is up and down the country, pursuing an itinerary that would make a 25yo tired, he has not stopped".

She also said, in the leadup to the leadership contest, "Throughout this election I have called for an end to infighting amongst different groups in our party. As a democrat, I have said all along that I will be loyal to whichever leader the party chooses; the wisdom of the party is more important than any faction. Over 35 years in the Labour Party has taught me that the collective wisdom our our members and grassroots should never be dismissed". Her voting record is: FOR the invasion of Iraq, FOR increase in university tuition fees, FOR stricter asylum laws, FOR introduction of ID cards, FOR detention without charge for 90 days, FOR Heathrow extension, FOR Trident, FOR air strikes on Iraq, FOR air strikes on Syria, AGAINST investigation into Iraq war.

I foresee a new slogan: Lies like an Eagle.
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As I've said before True Blue Through and Through. I'd rather lose an election with a true Labor Party than win as a second Conservative Party.
 
Smores said:
I think they need to stop pretending a majority is attainable and as you say group together a very public alliance with the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens to fight together in the Brexit discussions.

It doesn't need a new party it just needs all left of centre parties to work together in attacking the Tories and holding the goverment accountable.
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We also need to move away from the Left/right thinking. What policies benefit the vast majority. Yes. A public alliance with these anti-tory parties will work.
 
An alliance with pro-business liberals, Scottish and Welsh nationalists and environmental socialists is not going to work.
 
Red Dreams said:
We also need to move away from the Left/right thinking. What policies benefit the vast majority. Yes. A public alliance with these anti-tory parties will work.
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Right we have a plan now let's send some letters out for a haggis event, Cuba event, tree hugging event, and 'free food for the Lib Dems event' and trick them all into the same room.

They'll make movies about it and everything.
 
Secret ballot on it at the NEC apparently. Fun.
 
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