Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)

Corbyn and his team have rightly been criticised for incompetence at times.

But less than a week after Chilcot is published the Labour "centrists" are intending to unite around an MP who voted for the Iraq war and against an investigation into it. Jesus Christ. Is the party simply full of idiots?
It's insane. Absolute idiots.
 
So Angela Eagle now runs to challenge Jez.

Jez is surely going to beat her by a wider margin than he won by last year.

Then...? The MPs fall in line? The party splits?

I expect we're going to see some maneuvering on a third candidate. Owen Smith will probably be encouraged to stand to split the Corbyn vote with Eagles team thinking he's too unknown to challenge.

I would consider voting Owen Smith over Eagle but my vote will be Corbyn most likely.
 
So Angela Eagle now runs to challenge Jez.

Jez is surely going to beat her by a wider margin than he won by last year.

Then...? The MPs fall in line? The party splits?
Hard for MPs to fall in line after saying they have no confidence in the man's ability to be their leader, and I'd hope they wouldn't as well. Let him get on with it with his half-empty front bench and seriously explore the options around setting up a new party.
 
Hard for MPs to fall in line after saying they have no confidence in the man's ability to be their leader, and I'd hope they wouldn't as well. Let him get on with it with his half-empty front bench and seriously explore the options around setting up a new party.

If that happens Eagle can't be the face of it, she just won't carry the support. The circumstances are terrible for a split as there's no obvious figurehead. Chukka maybe but he's retreated.

This whole thing has been a gross miscalculation. If they don't believe Corbyn will win an election they should have patiently waited for him to fail and make the best of it in the mean time
 
He certainly won't win an election with the parliamentary party in open revolt...and whether he does or not, surely it is about policy and political principle? In short, you have policies and people vote for them, you don't create policy to get elected in an ideal world.

But, you know, his shoes are crap and he isn't trying to be anodyne whilst voting for the Iraq war.
 
The only way this makes any sense is if the idea is to lose heavily and use said loss as a justification for a split
 
Corbyn and his team have rightly been criticised for incompetence at times.

But less than a week after Chilcot is published the Labour "centrists" are intending to unite around an MP who voted for the Iraq war and against an investigation into it. Jesus Christ. Is the party simply full of idiots?
Forget her record for a second, we've constantly been told that this is about wanting a leader to unite and inspire the left. Months of backstabbing, abstaining and undermining later and the face of this Labour "renaissance" is the human equivalent of Temazepam. It is utterly laughable.
 
This is who Corbyn is likely to be up against.

Someone who can sit in the same room as Jeremy Hunt and still look like by far the biggest cnut.

 
If that happens Eagle can't be the face of it, she just won't carry the support. The circumstances are terrible for a split as there's no obvious figurehead. Chukka maybe but he's retreated.

This whole thing has been a gross miscalculation. If they don't believe Corbyn will win an election they should have patiently waited for him to fail and make the best of it in the mean time
Eagle wouldn't be the leader of a split party, she's only being put forward because of the selectorate - Jarvis for instance is far likelier to have support with the wider country, but the membership has moved far to the left of even when Ed was elected (Eagle's probably to Ed's left). The unions are another thing, Unite couldn't even decide who to nominate between her and Watson last year, and he's an ex-employee.

You say patiently wait for him to fail, what does that involve? Losing a general election? Every electoral indicator seen so far has been worse than Miliband, and I'm really not sure just waiting for the party's seat level to fall below 200 for the first time since the 30s is a great idea.
 
Eagle wouldn't be the leader of a split party, she's only being put forward because of the selectorate - Jarvis for instance is far likelier to have support with the wider country, but the membership has moved far to the left of even when Ed was elected (Eagle's probably to Ed's left). The unions are another thing, Unite couldn't even decide who to nominate between her and Watson last year, and he's an ex-employee.

You say patiently wait for him to fail, what does that involve? Losing a general election? Every electoral indicator seen so far has been worse than Miliband, and I'm really not sure just waiting for the party's seat level to fall below 200 for the first time since the 30s is a great idea.

It means not constantly sabotaging their own leader and party.
 
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What site is this? I've used it before but I cannot remember it for the life of me.
 
It means not constantly sabotaging their own leader and party.
That would help.

Electing another Blairite to further alienate one aspect of Labour's core vote whilst not actually appeasing other aspects of the parties core vote to win over Tory voters is unlikely to help.

In Scotland, the path of Labour since the 90s resulted in political dis-illusion and eventual defection of the left to the SNP virtually en masse.

In England there is no real leftist alternative, but there are many right wing ones. It is essential there is a party of the left in England, even if perceived wisdom is it is unelectable. I don't want a party Tories might vote for. I want one I would vote for please.
 
That would help.

Electing another Blairite to further alienate one aspect of Labour's core vote whilst not actually appeasing other aspects of the parties core vote to win over Tory voters is unlikely to help.

In Scotland, the path of Labour since the 90s resulted in political ***-illusion and eventual defection of the left to the SNP virtually en masse.

In England there is no real leftist alternative, but there are many right wing ones. It is essential there is a party of the left in England, even if perceived wisdom is it is unelectable. I don't want a party Tories might vote for. I want one I would vote for please.
SWP, Socialist Party, TUSC, Greens are available. Labour is a party of government.
 
Eagle wouldn't be the leader of a split party, she's only being put forward because of the selectorate - Jarvis for instance is far likelier to have support with the wider country, but the membership has moved far to the left of even when Ed was elected (Eagle's probably to Ed's left). The unions are another thing, Unite couldn't even decide who to nominate between her and Watson last year, and he's an ex-employee.

You say patiently wait for him to fail, what does that involve? Losing a general election? Every electoral indicator seen so far has been worse than Miliband, and I'm really not sure just waiting for the party's seat level to fall below 200 for the first time since the 30s is a great idea.
Seems like an pretty impressive man(Ex army, bringing up his kids on his own)but I think I'm right in saying that he couldn't get his own constituency to vote Remain.
 
Eagle wouldn't be the leader of a split party, she's only being put forward because of the selectorate - Jarvis for instance is far likelier to have support with the wider country, but the membership has moved far to the left of even when Ed was elected (Eagle's probably to Ed's left). The unions are another thing, Unite couldn't even decide who to nominate between her and Watson last year, and he's an ex-employee.

You say patiently wait for him to fail, what does that involve? Losing a general election? Every electoral indicator seen so far has been worse than Miliband, and I'm really not sure just waiting for the party's seat level to fall below 200 for the first time since the 30s is a great idea.

Say there is a GE called early next year, now do you think Corbyn potentially losing that would do more damage to the Labour party than a split would? Or even a coup than turns the grass routes away and offends some of the public on principle?

If anything the circumstances of an early election have reduced the time they would have had to put up with him. We're not waiting 4 more years and risking another 5 of Tory governance.

I can imagine you dislike Corbyn as much as I hated LvG but even I didn't want us to concede own goals just to be rid of him :lol:
 
Say there is a GE called early next year, now do you think Corbyn potentially losing that would do more damage to the Labour party than a split would? Or even a coup than turns the grass routes away and offends some of the public on principle?

If anything the circumstances of an early election have reduced the time they would have had to put up with him. We're not waiting 4 more years and risking another 5 of Tory governance.

I can imagine you dislike Corbyn as much as I hated LvG but even I didn't want us to concede own goals just to be rid of him :lol:

in a nutshell.
 
Seems like an pretty impressive man(Ex army, bringing up his kids on his own)but I think I'm right in saying that he couldn't get his own constituency to vote Remain.
Pretty much the entire north outside of big cities voted Leave. There are plenty of the social conservatives up there that we were speaking about the other day.
 
Say there is a GE called early next year, now do you think Corbyn potentially losing that would do more damage to the Labour party than a split would? Or even a coup than turns the grass routes away and offends some of the public on principle?

If anything the circumstances of an early election have reduced the time they would have had to put up with him. We're not waiting 4 more years and risking another 5 of Tory governance.

I can imagine you dislike Corbyn as much as I hated LvG but even I didn't want us to concede own goals just to be rid of him :lol:
Genuinely not sure at this point that an election defeat would turn a lot of his supporters against him. Looking on twitter, they're cultists.
 
Genuinely not sure at this point that an election defeat would turn a lot of his supporters against him. Looking on twitter, they're cultists.

I'm going to look at a social media website that is generally known for representing the worst in people and use it to pass judgement of hundreds of thousand of people.
 
Pretty much the entire north outside of big cities voted Leave. There are plenty of the social conservatives up there that we were speaking about the other day.
My point being I'm not sure there's much reasoning to suggest he can have a wider appeal across the country. Although it's still earlier days I guess.
 
Genuinely not sure at this point that an election defeat would turn a lot of his supporters against him. Looking on twitter, they're cultists.

That's nonsense, the majority would move on maybe not on policy but to a new voice for that policy.

Who will you be voting for if it's Eagle, Watson, Smith?

I still think Watson will throw his hat into the ring he's just trying to minimise any claims of being a back stabber.
 
That's nonsense, the majority would move on maybe not on policy but to a new voice for that policy.

Who will you be voting for if it's Eagle, Watson, Smith?

I still think Watson will throw his hat into the ring he's just trying to minimise any claims of being a back stabber.
But would there be another such voice? It would be reliant on him resigning again, and if he doesn't think a similar type of person would receive the nominations we might be right back where we are now, only with 180 MPs instead of 230.

If it's Eagle, Watson and Smith then we're fecked because it needs to be a sole candidate. Realise here that I'm in a position of not overly liking any of those candidates - Eagle and Watson last year I put as 4th and 5th for deputy respectively, and Smith recently said we need to build a "progressive case against free movement", which I find an annoying jumble of words. Watson I still think has baggage from being the man who brought down Blair (ironically this would actually be a great selling point in a leadership election).

The basic way I see this now is that it'll tell me if I'm too far removed from the rest of the membership or not. If Corbyn's put back in, I can safely say that the majority of the party now see things too differently to me to be reconciled and I'll have to move on as a member (again) and this time as a voter as well, and will just stop commenting (celebrations all round!). If it's the opponent, I'll see a path forward. It's horrible to say as someone that's voted Labour in every election I've been eligible for (bar a tactical dalliance with Lib Dems in the locals one time), but that's unfortunately where I am.
 
SWP, Socialist Party, TUSC, Greens are available. Labour is a party of government.
Yes indeed. A party of government who are also meant to be of the left.

Apparently it is ok to have right wing parties of govt, but not of the left?
 
Yes indeed. A party of government who are also meant to be of the left.

Apparently it is ok to have right wing parties of govt, but not of the left?
Party of government = able to win elections = able to attract people that have voted Tory. Which you forbade in your previous post.
 
indeed. what is the point of winning a GE and doing feck all for ordinary people?

I see Labour governing in a coalition which would be far better.
Yes indeed. A party of government who are also meant to be of the left.

Apparently it is ok to have right wing parties of govt, but not of the left?
They are 'of the left' ffs...

Do you think the last Labour government did nothing for ordinary people? Are you for or against the minimum wage, the living wage?

Do you think Corbyn's Labour Party can get elected?

Do you think it's worth the risk of putting a 'hard' left candidate forward (JC) and seeing if the public will take to that form of argument, or do you think that it's too big a risk to take, considering the likely loss of the North of England to UKIP?
 
They are 'of the left' ffs...

Do you think the last Labour government did nothing for ordinary people? Are you for or against the minimum wage, the living wage?

Do you think Corbyn's Labour Party can get elected?

Do you think it's worth the risk of putting a 'hard' left candidate forward (JC) and seeing if the public will take to that form of argument, or do you think that it's too big a risk to take, considering the likely loss of the North of England to UKIP?

by going to the center we have lost core Labour. Labour can only govern now in a coalition. What is the point of appealing to Tory voters when we have to betray Labour values?
 
What does core Labour mean to you?

not Tory light for sure.

I want a govrnment that is willing to invest in people whose jobs have left the country so they can be retrained. Leave the Tories to talk about austerity.

We are where we are after Brexit. This is the time to pull together and work with parties like SNP that are not coming back. Keep the Tories out. Not become them.