Henrikh Mkhitaryan | BVB confirm transfer

[do.ob]

9 goals and 10 assists in his first season is a bit better then decent. He was just inconsistent. The year after, dortmund as a whole was horrific. Would you have reservations on signing Reus, Aubamayeng, gundogan or hummels? Over the past 3 years, Mkhitaryan has been as good if not better then all bar Auba. Sure, nobody is a guarantee, but Mkhitaryan with his skill set and work rate is perfect on paper for Mourinho and playing on the right for us. Will compliment Martial well on the other side and give us a lot of much needed pace and creativity out there. Seriously, if people were saying Lingard was doing alright for us, its hard to imagine Mkhitaryan not impressing. Its not like he is replacing ronaldo here.

The player himself said that the €27m fee Dortmund paid for him was a very heavy burden for him and his second season can't simply be explained by the team doing badly, he was terribly shocking at times, there were games when he was almost literally takting the wrong decision at every opportunity (passing too late, losing the ball by dribbling into several opponents, etc), he said himself that he was trying to solve everything by himself which caused massive problems.
I think either he has a good relationship with Mourinho and settles in quickly or he goes down the Kagawa route.

 

[bosnian_red]

The problem is that some players really do take time to settle in the league, prime example being David Silva who erupted in year 2 at city. The premier league is fast, aggressive and different from the continent so it does take time to adjust to. That's one of the reasons why the premier league proven cliche was created and it has often been true. However, it's not always the case and people spout it out far too often.

Often times they struggle because of not suiting a managers system. Even those who supposefly fail in the premier league, more then likely would be fine in a different club inder a different manager. Look at di maria. Was he not suited to the prem, or just van gaal and united? Pretty obvious answer there for me. Usually players with good pace and who are aggressive make a good impact though, and thats what Mkhitaryan has. Slower players who rely more on their technique, but aren't aggressive need time to adjust to the league and system they are used in. Silva, ozil, Mata, kagawa, etc... they show their class on occasions, but struggle in others.

Thats why I'm confident with Mkhitaryan. Suits Mourinhos counter attacking style, perfect position open for him, is a hard worker, aggressive, and has bags of pace along with being good on the ball. Its just a signing that fits compared to some of the previous players we signed.

 

[VP89]

9 goals and 10 assists in his first season is a bit better then decent.

His first season he was in the bundesliga team of the year, 9 goals & 10 assists in a brand new league/country/team but you call it 'decent'

Juan Mata got 8 goals and 10 assists last year and the caf broadly slates him . Does this mean you agree Mata has had a "better than decent" season for us?

Sure you can use the "he's been in PL and it was Mkhitaryan's debut year" argument, but the latter played under freedom of Klopp whilst Mata was out of position under a rigid LVG system.

 

[Earthquake]

His first season he was in the bundesliga team of the year, 9 goals & 10 assists in a brand new league/country/team but you call it 'decent'
Second season he not only had a few injuries and played in a dortmund team that finished a few spots above relegation, all of their players under-performed.
And this past season, you're correct he has been amazing.

7th.

 

[Wade3]

Don't worry it took him only two years to play on a top level at Dortmund

That, paired with his age is one of the major reasons I don't want him. He seems to thrive in very specific scenarios, which I'm not sure we'll provide for him.

People always view players in a vacuum when history has shown so many times how wrong that is.

 

[GJNJ]

I think generally with new players coming into the league they start well for the first 4 or 5 months, then teams work them out a bit more, it gets cold, the pace and physicality of the league starts to take its toll with no winter break and so the second half of the season they can go quiet and off form.

 

[Jacky Quacky]

So can we safetly say that this is as close to a confirmation as it can be without it being official?

 

[Balu]

I have a question. If "PL proven" is a meaningless catchphrase . Is "He needs time to get accustomed to the league" also a meaningless catchphrase used to cover up some one being wank when they just arrived to the league. Like Ozil

It's the same as pretty much everywhere. Some players hit the ground running, some don't. Some players adapt after a while, some never do. Some fail to make the step up to a top team, others never reach the form they showed at a smaller club ever again, no matter if they stayed in the same league or moved to a different league.

It's always a risk with transfers, but many PL fans try to paint it as if it's something unique about the Premier League.

 

[do.ob]

His first season he was in the bundesliga team of the year, 9 goals & 10 assists in a brand new league/country/team but you call it 'decent'
Second season he not only had a few injuries and played in a dortmund team that finished a few spots above relegation, all of their players under-performed.
And this past season, you're correct he has been amazing.

Which one?
This is kicker's team of the year 13/14: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...deshow_das-ist-die-kicker-elf-des-jahres.html

He was neither bad nor great in his first season, a couple of very good games but also a lot with little attacking contribution from him and in his second he was far worse than the rest of the team. I don't think any big club would've been hugely interested in him last summer. His whole value stems from last season.

So can we safetly say that this is as close to a confirmation as it can be without it being official?

Yes, I think so, at least in the sense that United most likely met Dortmund's asking price and they will now supposedly will make a final decision with the board.

 

[slig]

So can we safetly say that this is as close to a confirmation as it can be without it being official?

I think yes.

 

[AndyJ1985]

The problem is that some players really do take time to settle in the league, prime example being David Silva who erupted in year 2 at city. The premier league is fast, aggressive and different from the continent so it does take time to adjust to. That's one of the reasons why the premier league proven cliche was created and it has often been true. However, it's not always the case and people spout it out far too often.

But European teams routinely beat English teams, so clearly the standard of our league isn't superior, therefore why would talented foreigners have trouble fitting in here? I'd say it's less to do with our league and more to do with a foreigner settling in to a new country and environment, or they simply don't fit in to the system, which can happen to anyone, even "premier league proven" players (Sterling was premier league proven at Liverpool and now he's crap). Also it always seems to imply that players who are good in Spain/Italy/Germany will have difficulty dealing with the big lumbering English oafs who will kick the shit out of them. The way some people go on you'd think other leagues were primarily filled with midgets who lack the strength to peel a banana.

 

[pseudo_canadian]

Excited, but more cautiously optimistic about this transfer.

He was obviously incredible last season, but his two seasons prior weren't anything special. Seems like it took him a little while to settle in.

Hopefully we'll be getting last year's Mkhitaryan.

 

[Dinghy]

Him being a success or not is dependent of whom is gonna play around him. If he is gonna have to play those 1-2's with the likes of Rooney and Valencia, he might be in for a struggle. I can see him and Rashford connecting quite well.

 

[villain]

Juan Mata got 8 goals and 10 assists last year and the caf broadly slates him . Does this mean you agree Mata has had a "better than decent" season for us?

Sure you can use the "he's been in PL and it was Mkhitaryan's debut year" argument, but the latter played under freedom of Klopp whilst Mata was out of position under a rigid LVG system.

I don't slate Mata, so i'm not sure what relevance that has to my argument?

Which one?
This is kicker's team of the year 13/14: http://www.kicker.de/news/fussball/...deshow_das-ist-die-kicker-elf-des-jahres.html

He was neither bad nor great in his first season, a couple of very good games but also a lot with little attacking contribution from him and in his second he was far worse than the rest of the team. I don't think any big club would've been hugely interested in him last summer. His whole value stems from last season.

WhoScored: https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/81/Tournaments/3/Seasons/3863

 

[Acquire Me]

Do you know something we don't?

Of course

 

[Siorac]

Payet isnt a right winger, similar to Di Maria he can play LW or in a midfield 3 going into pockets of space wherever it may appear on the pitch.

Why i think Payet could be a fantastic signing for us is that he has that little bit of class about him to unlock defences when teams park the bus. Just like Silva for City you need that player in the team who can create a opening with a bit of magic when you have ten players defending against you in their own half.

But like other posters have mentioned you have to come in with some serious cash for West Ham to think about selling.

I say pull out the money and sign a player who guarantees you 10+ goals and 15 to 20 assists a season in the premier league

Who would that player be? Payet scored 9 and assisted 12 last season.

 

[Powderfinger]

9 goals and 10 assists in his first season is a bit better then decent. He was just inconsistent. The year after, dortmund as a whole was horrific. Would you have reservations on signing Reus, Aubamayeng, gundogan or hummels? Over the past 3 years, Mkhitaryan has been as good if not better then all bar Auba. Sure, nobody is a guarantee, but Mkhitaryan with his skill set and work rate is perfect on paper for Mourinho and playing on the right for us. Will compliment Martial well on the other side and give us a lot of much needed pace and creativity out there. Seriously, if people were saying Lingard was doing alright for us, its hard to imagine Mkhitaryan not impressing. Its not like he is replacing ronaldo here.

I think its a good signing overall and would have taken him at Arsenal in a second. All I'm saying is that the risk is particularly high because his performance has been so variable and seemingly dependent on his relationship with the manager and the system. Dortmund as a whole was horrible in 14-15 but Mikhi being quite poor contributed to that. His Champions League record has been undeniably awful throughout his career. Yet he is also clearly capable of playing on a world class level in the right system under the right manager. In the abstract, he is a good fit for the more defensive/playmaking winger in Mourinho's system, as you note. But are Mourinho and his system a good fit for Mikhi? That seems like the more important question, which is very difficult to answer.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Often times they struggle because of not suiting a managers system. Even those who supposefly fail in the premier league, more then likely would be fine in a different club inder a different manager. Look at di maria. Was he not suited to the prem, or just van gaal and united? Pretty obvious answer there for me. Usually players with good pace and who are aggressive make a good impact though, and thats what Mkhitaryan has. Slower players who rely more on their technique, but aren't aggressive need time to adjust to the league and system they are used in. Silva, ozil, Mata, kagawa, etc... they show their class on occasions, but struggle in others.

Thats why I'm confident with Mkhitaryan. Suits Mourinhos counter attacking style, perfect position open for him, is a hard worker, aggressive, and has bags of pace along with being good on the ball. Its just a signing that fits compared to some of the previous players we signed.

Yeh I don't disagree but a number a factors go into a player settling in; manager, system, teammates, leagues with different styles, even things like culture and climate and they can all affect a players mental and physical state. That's one of the reasons why it's almost impossible to predict how big an impact a new signing can make, but you would hope the top scouts earn thier money in this field by ticking as many boxes both on and off the pitch as possible.

I actually do think that Mkhitaryan might settle faster than many people think because I agree with you that he fits a Mounrinho system very well (on paper). He looks like a player to me that could be about to break out as a real consistent top class player and I'm really hoping that we see that player emerge and flourish under Mounrinho at Utd. Exciting deal nonetheless and I hope it works out for him and us.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

Seriously, the only people against this signing or with reservations are the ones who have never seen him. People commenting on a supposed lack of pace, or his age, or saying not premier league proven...

He just turned 27, is quicker then pretty much anyone in our team apart from Shaw probably, and just had an undisputedly world class season at Dortmund. And that by playing in the position where we literallt have nobody in, on the right wing. He is a perfect signing and people are still complaining... amazing really.

He has good acceleration and his technique allows him to dribble at pace but I think you'll be disappointed when you actually see him play if you expect him to be faster than Martial, Valencia, Rashford even Smalling would be faster in full stride. Raw pace isn't everything though, acceleration and repeat sprint ability like Hazard or Ronaldinho is what beats players more often than a Bale style medium/long distance sprint at 100% effort.

 

[red thru&thru]

the irony is that payet proves that this epl proven business is nonsense

You can add Kante to that!

 

[do.ob]

I don't slate Mata, so i'm not sure what relevance that has to my argument?



WhoScored: https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/81/Tournaments/3/Seasons/3863

Statistics don't always tell the whole truth, Reus and Robben for example were clearly better that year imho.

 

[roonster09]

It's the same as pretty much everywhere. Some players hit the ground running, some don't. Some players adapt after a while, some never do. Some fail to make the step up to a top team, others never reach the form they showed at a smaller club ever again, no matter if they stayed in the same league or moved to a different league.

It's always a risk with transfers, but many PL fans try to paint it as if it's something unique about the Premier League.

Not only PL fans, I have seen Serie A fans using that phrase many times when they are linked with PL players.

 

[villain]

Statistics don't always tell the whole truth, Reus and Robben for example were clearly better that year imho.

Of course not, but it doesn't change the fact that he was still in their team of the year, which was my original point.

Whether or not he was better than any other player is subjective.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

It's the same as pretty much everywhere. Some players hit the ground running, some don't. Some players adapt after a while, some never do. Some fail to make the step up to a top team, others never reach the form they showed at a smaller club ever again, no matter if they stayed in the same league or moved to a different league.

It's always a risk with transfers, but many PL fans try to paint it as if it's something unique about the Premier League.

While I do agree with you, I think the premier league is unique in its style. I don't think the quality in the league is as good as Spain or maybe even the Bundesliga but I do think that the pace of the legaue and physicality is much higher than the other major leagues. That makes it exciting and frantic and that can either bring the best out of a player, or it can very quickly be their downfall. It's just another factor to add onto the list that you already mentioned but I think it's unfair to dismiss it as completly untrue and irrelevent when all the leagues have slight play-style differences that affect players.

 

[VP89]

I don't slate Mata, so i'm not sure what relevance that has to my argument?

Would you agree its harsh or fairly accurate to say he's had a decent season for us?

 

[Powderfinger]

Statistics don't always tell the whole truth, Reus and Robben for example were clearly better that year imho.

Who knows how those whoscored ratings are calculated. Reus had 23 goals and 23 assists in all competitions that year, Mkhitaryan has 13 and 10 in all competitions in slightly more minutes played. You need to use a strange formula to decide that Mkhi was better than Reus.

 

[VP89]

Who knows how those whoscored ratings are calculated. Reus had 23 goals and 23 assists in all competitions that year, Mkhitaryan has 13 and 10 in all competitions in slightly more minutes played. You need to use a strange formula to decide that Mkhi was better than Reus.

Mhkitaryan was the Bundasliga player of the year though, wasn't he? If so then its not just Whoscored who have that sentiment.

 

[villain]

Would you agree its harsh or fairly accurate to say he's had a decent season for us?

Mata's been treated harshly based on this season's performances in comparison to his teammates and has been made one of the scapegoats of LVG's reign.

 

[VP89]

Mata's been treated harshly based on this season's performances in comparison to his teammates and has been made one of the scapegoats of LVG's reign.

I agree.. so you'd say he was decent this season? Or is that harsh on him?

 

[do.ob]

Mhkitaryan was the Bundasliga player of the year though, wasn't he? If so then its not just Whoscored who have that sentiment.

We were talking about 13/14, his first season at Dortmund. I assume you're talking abut 15/16.

 

[VP89]

We were talking about 13/14, his first season at Dortmund. I assume you're talking abut 15/16.

Ah yes, I stand corrected

 

[Bruno8]

Its clear that this Miki guy divides opinion. Lets hope he does well and settle in quicker than others have done before him.

Lets wait for him to deliver for United first before we start labelling him "great signing"

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

His first season he was in the bundesliga team of the year, 9 goals & 10 assists in a brand new league/country/team but you call it 'decent'
Second season he not only had a few injuries and played in a dortmund team that finished a few spots above relegation, all of their players under-performed.
And this past season, you're correct he has been amazing.

Has this just been made up to suit the point you're trying to make? Dortmund qualified for European football and had a cup final as I recall..

 

[villain]

I agree.. so you'd say he was decent this season? Or is that harsh on him?

I'd say considering the level of ability he's shown at Chelsea, we know he can do better.
But in comparison to his teammates, and in the system LVG deployed - he's been one of our best attacking players.

So 'expect better' would be my assessment on him this season, but that's better than 'useless, waste of space' which is what i'd assess most of our current squad with based on last season.

 

[Balu]

While I do agree with you, I think the premier league is unique in its style. I don't think the quality in the league is as good as Spain or maybe even the Bundesliga but I do think that the pace of the legaue and physicality is much higher than the other major leagues. That makes it exciting and frantic and that can either bring the best out of a player, or it can very quickly be their downfall. It's just another factor to add onto the list that you already mentioned but I think it's unfair to dismiss it as completly untrue and irrelevent when all the leagues have slight play-style differences that affect players.

Yeah, but some players flop in other leagues and do well in the PL. Fuchs was arguably the worst fullback in the Bundesliga last season and played a brilliant season now in the PL. Of course there are different demands depending on the league or the team, but in the end it comes back to how the player adapts or if he's able to adapt at all. As a defender in Italy you need to be more intelligent, you need to read the game better and be flawless when it comes to organisation, keeping the shape. In England you need to be stronger in the physical attributes to cope with the more chaotic and higher paced game. Someone like Smalling might be great in England but wouldn't necessarily be as good in Italy.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Yeah, but some players flop in other leagues and do well in the PL. Fuchs was arguably the worst fullback in the Bundesliga last season and played a brilliant season now in the PL. Of course there are different demands depending on the league or the team, but in the end it comes back to how the player adapts or if he's able to adapt at all. As a defender in Italy you need to be more intelligent, you need to read the game better and be flawless when it comes to organisation, keeping the shape. In England you need to be stronger in the physical attributes to cope with the more chaotic and higher paced game. Someone like Smalling might be great in England but wouldn't necessarily be as good in Italy.

Yeh completely agree.

 

[fellaini's barber]

I don't understand the pessimism some people have about signings, i've really read some ridiculous stuff in the Zlatan thread and this one. People don't want us to sign Micky because 'he's had only 1 good season?!' . A season that saw him voted one of Bundesliga's best players nonetheless. Some say he's too old at 27...FFS. Some don't want Zlatan because 'Its only the French league'...I wonder how some of you would have reacted had we gone for Payet last season, seeing as he had barely managed 1 full good season in that so called weak league's mid table. Not to mention he was a 29 year old grand pa.

 

[VP89]

I'd say considering the level of ability he's shown at Chelsea, we know he can do better.
But in comparison to his teammates, and in the system LVG deployed - he's been one of our best attacking players.

So 'expect better' would be my assessment on him this season, but that's better than 'useless, waste of space' which is what i'd assess most of our current squad with based on last season.

So, to my original point, how does that mean Mkhitarayan wasn't having a decent season in his debut year? He got decent stats but was expected to do better given his transfer fee & incredible stats for Shakhtar.

 

[Akshay]

I'm not entirely convinced by him honestly, but we do need a RW and he's the best one available. Hope we wrap up this deal quickly and start our CM hunt.

I keep oscillating on him, one day I'm tremendously excited and the next I'm nervous! Today it's excited .

 

[Cooksen]

He is 27 and has been pretty good for Dortmund and for 26 million he is pretty cheap.

I fail to see any issues with this deal.