Henrikh Mkhitaryan | BVB confirm transfer

[K2K]

Yes United are. Simply because of the endless pit of money, and the pull of the league plus the history of the club.

Going by that logic Bayern isn't a powerhouse either. You are in a glorified one-horse league that needs to have a discussion about adjusting the time when their matches are played in order to get viewers, so it won't collide with PL matches. This is simply due to your league being totally uninteresting compared to the PL. Also if Real or Barca really want one of your players, they take them. Simple as.

So climb down from your high and mighty horse.

He's got you hook,like and sinker.

Bayern are a great club ,one of the big four in Europe right now . But less than a decade ago ,the roles were reversed with Stuttgart and Wolfsburg winning the league with Bayern languishing behind. Things change ,and I am positive that we are taking the right steps to recover.

Idiotic statements by a wum aside,they are many good Bundesliga watching posters on here. No need for snide comments towards their league.

He shouldn't be worth your time imo.

 

[Mancunia_Religion]

Is he fast?

Not exactly bless with pace but he's quicker and stronger than Mata is.

 

[dove]

@slig For a 27 year old who is already playing the BL Bayern is the more logical choice.

- No acclimatizing to a new league
- Bigger chance for trophies in the next 3-5 years (for a 27 year old that is important)
- Already knows the language

You make it sound like 27 year old has like 1-2 years left in his career Seriously, 26-27 is a perfect age to make a move to the next level. You have experience, you are on your peak, what else do you need? You can play at least until 34 at the top level, so he still has about 6-7 years in him.

 

[SwansonsTache]

He's got you hook,like and sinker.

Bayern are a great club ,one of the big four in Europe right now . But less than a decade ago ,the roles were reversed with Stuttgart and Wolfsburg winning the league with Bayern languishing behind. Things change ,and I am positive that we are taking the right steps to recover.

Idiotic statements by a wum aside,they are many good Bundesliga watching posters on here. No need for snide comments towards their league.

He shouldn't be worth your time imo.

Most German posters and BL posters on the Caf is brilliant. But this recurring dying need they have about belittling United and vastly overrate the significance and footprint of Bayern, since they have a stick up their ass about their league not being able to compete with the PL is getting tiresome, to say the least.

So, yeah, I bit. Literally gorged down the hook.

 

[slig]

Newst article about:

http://www.sport1.de/fussball/bunde...-berater-raiola-den-weggang-vom-bvb-erzwingen

Is about the behaviour of Raiola and how Raiola could install pressure on Dortmund to force a move.

 

[K2K]

Most German posters and BL posters on the Caf is brilliant. But this recurring dying need they have about belittling United and vastly overrate the significance and footprint of Bayern, since they have a stick up their ass about their league not being able to compete with the PL is getting tiresome, to say the least.

So, yeah, I bit. Literally gorged down the hook.

Fair enough.

But I've realised that some people are ignorant and love spouting nonsense. Some of those just happen to be Bayern fans too.

I've always wondered about people signing on here just to have digs at us. But some people deprive pleasure from the silliest things.

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

There's his agents ready-made next threat.

Dortmund appear thick as shit to me, how they keep allowing themselves to be in situations where they strengthen their biggest rivals every summer is the worst run club imaginable. And as you say, have this stance with Mkhitaryan now and there's a very good chance Bayern will be rubbing their hands together again in Jan.

Stupid stupid football club, run by idiots. Such a shame as it's a great club that I really respect, but this Bayern thing has been beyond embarrassing for them. Just imagine the same thing happening from Liverpool to us.

I'm genuinely curious, what do you want them to do to not strengthen their biggest rivals? Bayern activated the release clause in Mario Götze's contract, Lewandowski was in the last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one, I'm sure Dortmund would've been more than willing to sell if a foreign club came in with a big offer but Lewandowski only wanted Bayern, Hummels was in the last year of his contract, (presumably) refusing to sign a new one and Bayern offered 38m- more than anyone else was going to offer. So, what were they supposed to do? Turn down the ridiculous amount of money Bayern offered? Dortmund are rich but hardly Real/United/Bayern rich.

The only thing they could do perhaps is stop being so reasonable in allowing Gündogan, Sahin and Kagawa to leave. I get that it's annoying that they let Gündogan and Hummels leave and now are digging their heels in when we came calling, but if they didn't you'd still accuse them of being a push over for letting their best player leave yet again. If we wanted Mkhitaryan, perhaps we should've come in with an offer before they let Gündogan and Hummels go.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm genuinely curious, what do you want them to do to not strengthen their biggest rivals? Bayern activated the release clause in Mario Götze's contract, Lewandowski was in the last year of his contract and refused to sign a new one, I'm sure Dortmund would've been more than willing to sell if a foreign club came in with a big offer but Lewandowski only wanted Bayern.

The guy who has gone on about Real Madrid for years? Nar. And yes, you sign him or sell him before it gets down to 1 year left on his contract to a foreign club, or you sell him for a knock down fee to a foreign club. Anything to not strengthen your fecking rival.

Look at United with Heinze, or Madrid with Di Maria. When Lewandowski acted like a twat with a season left and asked for Bayern, tell him he's either joining Madrid or Arsenal on the cheap or he's sitting in the reserves and wasting an entire year of his career (as Real did with Di Maria). You MUST be strong with your players when they want to join your rivals. Di Maria wanted PSG, he wanted them desperately, but they weren't willing to pay what United were, and so Madrid basically forced him into a move he so clearly didn't want. They did the same to Michael Owen with Newcastle/Liverpool.

Mario Götze shouldn't have had a release clause at his age, or... his clause should be to foreign clubs only. As I say, United made a written promise to Heinze and took it to court when he tried using it to join Liverpool. We sold him cut price to Madrid instead.

Hummels... I'd have let him join Bayern, he's given you so many years of great service it'd be like the RVP to United transfer. But now, after losing all these players already to Bayern and it becoming obvious that it is a Bayern transfer strategy to feck you, I'd have told Hummels the same thing I'd have told Lewandowski.

Dortmund have completely ruined that league by being a poorly run pushover in the transfer market, and now they want to make a stand with this bloke, against United? Fecking idiots are getting it all wrong.

There's a reason it doesn't happen anywhere else, other top clubs aren't so bloody stupid.

 

[Nighteyes]

As for Mkhitaryan, I have the same concerns as you. He doesn't look that special a player to me. The stats people bring up from last season are the similar to how, I am guessing, they would have been brought up when we overspent for Mata a couple of years back. Mata had similar crazy numbers in his last season with Chelsea. Players can have an individual season or two that are complete outliers from their overall career. I, personally get a serious Mata vibe from Mkhitaryan. A good player who has the ability to be world class on the day, but doesn't have the personality or the game to be a categorized into a world class player.

The only way this signing makes sense is if he can price him away for under 30m Euros. Kind of a low risk punt.

Re-Counter attacking football...I get that. My point (poorly worded it appears) was that most of good things Mkhi does are on the counter.

Fully agreed. He's a pretty good player but like Mata he's not very creative despite those assist stats which people love to gobble up. Also, I'd rather get a natural winger than play someone like him there.

 

[The Man Himself]

Raiola being a cnut means we can still have hope of signing him this summer in spite of Dortmund's adamancy.

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

The guy who has gone on about Real Madrid for years? Nar. And yes, you sign him or sell him before it gets down to 1 year left on his contract to a foreign club, or you sell him for a knock down fee to a foreign club. Anything to not strengthen your fecking rival.

Look at United with Heinze, or Madrid with Di Maria. When Lewandowski acted like a twat with a season left and asked for Bayern, tell him he's either joining Madrid or Arsenal on the cheap or he's sitting in the reserves and wasting an entire year of his career (as Real did with Di Maria). You MUST be strong with your players when they want to join your rivals. Di Maria wanted PSG, he wanted them desperately, but they weren't willing to pay what United were, and so Madrid basically forced him into a move he so clearly didn't want. They did the same to Michael Owen with Newcastle/Liverpool.

Mario Götze shouldn't have had a release clause at his age, or... his clause should be to foreign clubs only. As I say, United made a written promise to Heinze and took it to court when he tried using it to join Liverpool. We sold him cut price to Madrid instead.

Hummels... I'd have let him join Bayern, he's given you so many years of great service it'd be like the RVP to United transfer. But now, after losing all these players already to Bayern and it becoming obvious that it is a Bayern transfer strategy to feck you, I'd have told Hummels the same thing I'd have told Lewandowski.

Dortmund have completely ruined that league by being a poorly run pushover in the transfer market, and now they want to make a stand with this bloke, against United? Fecking idiots are getting it all wrong.

I take the point about not letting the contracts run down but the Lewandowski scenario you are suggesting was obviously never going to happen, at any club. They can't force Lewandowski to move to a team he doesn't want to sign for. And to have Lewandowski sitting in the reserves and wasting a year of his career while you pay him thousands of euros a week doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. I'm not a lawyer, but I can't imagine something like that would even be allowed: it gives clubs unfair leverage over the players.

Your grievance basically seems to be how dare they put their foot down when United come calling. Their CEO said they would not be letting more than 2 key players leave, if United wanted him, we should have come in before they sold Gündogan and Hummels. I mean Jose has been free since December, we've been rumoured to have had a contract with him since at least February. Surely, we could've planned ahead?

Anyway, all this is academic at best. Of course, they won't come out and say he's for sale. I'm sure if we made a good enough offer, they would be willing to do business.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

They can't force Lewandowski to move to a team he doesn't want to sign for.

Michael Owen, Gabriel Heinze and Di Maria completely disagree.

I don't have a grievance with them saying no to United at all, my grievance is them screwing up the Bundesliga with poor transfer management. 5 years ago the BL was booming and looked on course to get stronger and stronger, now it's back to being a Bayern bore-fest. And that is due to Dortmund's stupidity.

I've no idea how you can read my post and think my grievance is United-based. As I've said time and again, sell to anyone now (I don't care if it's us), or Bayern will most certainly be making him a pre-contract offer and will happily take him for free. Not selling him and opening up that possibility is more fecking stupidity.

If you don't think Bayern will be in for him for free, you really haven't been paying attention to their transfer strategy these past few years.

 

[BennyBlanco]

It'll be interesting to see if Dortmund can be bullied into selling, i'm not convinced we'd get him if it's the case that they're actually digging in their heels, alternatively it may iust be a selling tactic... if so it's a good one.

 

[Adisa]

It'll be interesting to see if Dortmund can be bullied into selling, i'm not convinced we'd get him if it's the case that they're actually digging in their heels, alternatively it may iust be a selling tactic... if so it's a good one.

Nobody will bully them. If they accept €35m, it's because they see it as a good deal.

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

Michael Owen, Gabriel Heinze and Di Maria completely disagree.

I don't have a grievance with them saying no to United at all, my grievance is them screwing up the Bundesliga with poor transfer management. 5 years ago the BL was booming and looked on course to get stronger and stronger, now it's back to being a Bayern bore-fest. And that is due to Dortmund's stupidity.

I've no idea how you can read my post and think my grievance is United-based. As I've said time and again, sell to anyone now (I don't care if it's us), or Bayern will most certainly be making him a pre-contract offer and will happily take him for free. Not selling him and opening up that possibility is more fecking stupidity.

If you don't think Bayern will be in for him for free, you really haven't been paying attention to their transfer strategy these past few years.

Well, sell him now I agree with. It would be ridiculous to keep him for another year and take a needless financial hit. I don't think Dortmund will do that, even though they did with Lewandowski. If we make a good offer, they'll take it.

And the Bundesliga has always been like that. Go back 10 years and Bayern were getting players like Klose from their rivals. Any time, a team like Leverkusen or Dortmund rises, Bayern always seem to be abke to pick their best players. It has more to do with the financial disparity between the teams. If you want a competitive Bundesliga, you need to close that gap. Same scenario of where West Ham might have been had they been able to keep Carrick, Lampard, Ferdinand, Joe Cole etc. They aren't in the financial position to compete with the big boys, be it in terms of wages or being able to refuse big transfer fees.

 

[BennyBlanco]

Nobody will bully them. If they accept €35m, it's because they see it as a good deal.

Possibly, I meant as much with Raiola's pressuring tactics and these press bites he's started making public over his client, as much as anything from our side.
As has been said by multiple people, it will be interesting to see if Dortmund will continue to decline everything that comes their way, they've certainly been strong enough over the years, not just with Lewa but I'm sure they must have had a bunch of offers coming in for the likes of Reus and Aubameyang and so on, If they legitimately don't want to sell then I don't fancy our chances this summer.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Well, sell him now I agree with. It would be ridiculous to keep him for another year and take a needless financial hit. I don't think Dortmund will do that, even though they did with Lewandowski. If we make a good offer, they'll take it.

And the Bundesliga has always been like that. Go back 10 years and Bayern were getting players like Klose from their rivals. Any time, a team like Leverkusen or Dortmund rises, Bayern always seem to be abke to pick their best players. It has more to do with the financial disparity between the teams. If you want a competitive Bundesliga, you need to close that gap. Same scenario of where West Ham might have been had they been able to keep Carrick, Lampard, Ferdinand, Joe Cole etc. They aren't in the financial position to compete with the big boys, be it in terms of wages or being able to refuse big transfer fees.

Well then we agree @SomeRandomPerson. Obviously Bayern have always had the pick of the league, but so did United in the 90's and early 00's and Liverpool would have NEVER sold to us.

Better transfer management from Dortmund these past few years would have been great for the league. And it's not like they have made really good money off any of their transfers to Bayern. Of course no top player wants to stay in Dortmund now when they see their club strengthening their rivals every season.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Burn the bridges.

 

[K2K]

I take the point about not letting the contracts run down but the Lewandowski scenario you are suggesting was obviously never going to happen, at any club. They can't force Lewandowski to move to a team he doesn't want to sign for. And to have Lewandowski sitting in the reserves and wasting a year of his career while you pay him thousands of euros a week doesn't seem like a smart thing to do. I'm not a lawyer, but I can't imagine something like that would even be allowed: it gives clubs unfair leverage over the players.

Your grievance basically seems to be how dare they put their foot down when United come calling. Their CEO said they would not be letting more than 2 key players leave, if United wanted him, we should have come in before they sold Gündogan and Hummels. I mean Jose has been free since December, we've been rumoured to have had a contract with him since at least February. Surely, we could've planned ahead?

Anyway, all this is academic at best. Of course, they won't come out and say he's for sale. I'm sure if we made a good enough offer, they would be willing to do business.

Goran Pandev and Malouda are examples of players put in the stands during a contract dispute.

United basically did the same with De Gea ,albeit only for a month.

 

[Xivon]

Well then we agree @SomeRandomPerson. Obviously Bayern have always had the pick of the league, but so did United in the 90's and early 00's and Liverpool would have NEVER sold to us.

Better transfer management from Dortmund these past few years would have been great for the league. And it's not like they have made really good money off any of their transfers to Bayern. Of course no top player wants to stay in Dortmund now when they see their club strengthening their rivals every season.

Hummels.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Goran Pandev and Malouda are examples of players put in the stands during a contract dispute.

United basically did the same with De Gea ,albeit only for a month.

How did I forget about this example... ha ha!

Make no mistake, Madrid made that threat to Owen when Newcastle were prepared to stump up much more money than Liverpool, and the same with Di Maria.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Hummels.

Would've gotten €45m from us last season.

How much are they claiming the fee was for Hummels by the way? I know that both agreed to keep it secret.

 

[Xivon]

Would've gotten €45m from us last season.

How much are they claiming the fee was for Hummels by the way? I know that both agreed to keep it secret.

€38m. And that's really really good money for a CB with 1 year left on his contract.

 

[slig]

Hummels.

+ Götze

Hummels 38mio€ plus bonus, Götze 37 mio €, both were records.

Its even funny cause Hummels we get him from Buyern years ago for nearly nothing. With Götze they flushed money down the toilet for 3 years, wanting to get rid of him now as fast as they can. Great.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

+ Götze

Hummels 38mio€ plus bonus, Götze 37 mio €, both were records.

Its even funny cause Hummels we get him from Buyern years ago for nearly nothing. With Götze they flushed money down the toilet for 3 years, wanting to get rid of him now as fast as they can. Great.

You think that is big money in today's market? Both would have fetched much more on the open market.

Lyon just turned down a similar amount for one of their players. Everton turned down $45m for John fecking Stones.

So when I say "big money"... I mean, Figo went for $62m like 16 years ago when sold between rivals. Dortmund ended up with less than the going rate on the open market

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

Goran Pandev and Malouda are examples of players put in the stands during a contract dispute.

United basically did the same with De Gea ,albeit only for a month.

Fair enough, then. My apologies.

Well then we agree @SomeRandomPerson. Obviously Bayern have always had the pick of the league, but so did United in the 90's and early 00's and Liverpool would have NEVER sold to us.

Better transfer management from Dortmund these past few years would have been great for the league. And it's not like they have made really good money off any of their transfers to Bayern. Of course no top player wants to stay in Dortmund now when they see their club strengthening their rivals every season.

Well, my argument there is that Liverpool have the money to reject us, Dortmund don't. Atletico are probably the closest parallel to Dortmund in recent years, and again, they can't refuse the money when clubs come calling for Diego Costa, Falcao, Filipe Luis etc.

Dortmund need to stop being so reasonable with their players though. They can't keep losing their best players and hope to replace them with young players without problems. Eventually, they'll get these wrong. Though, players like Emre Mor and Ousmane Dembele are choosing Dortmund despite reported interest from bigger clubs, so may be they've positioned themselves as the go to place for the best young players. Or they've told the world, "if you want to play for Bayern but aren't good enough to play for them yet, come to Dortmund. We at the Westfalenstadion do our best to make that transition from bright young thing to Bayern superstar easier". We'll have to wait and see.

As has been pointed out to me by you and @K2K, clubs have forced players to the stands/put their foot down about transfers with Pandev, Malouda etc. So it would appear, they did have it's much ado about nothing. Dortmund did have an option. You were right, on some level at least, all along

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Fair enough, then. My apologies.

Well, my argument there is that Liverpool have the money to reject us, Dortmund don't. Atletico are probably the closest parallel to Dortmund in recent years, and again, they can't refuse the money when clubs come calling for Diego Costa, Falcao, Filipe Luis etc.

Perfect example for me there

How many players have Atletico sold to Real?

 

[7even]

€38m. And that's really really good money for a CB with 1 year left on his contract.

+ Götze

Hummels 38mio€ plus bonus, Götze 37 mio €, both were records.

Its even funny cause Hummels we get him from Buyern years ago for nearly nothing. With Götze they flushed money down the toilet for 3 years, wanting to get rid of him now as fast as they can. Great.

Without knowing the specific details of above players respective contract situations a sensible fee for Mhkitaryan would be, in regards to the above examples, somewhere around €35-40m including adds ons. That's a sum that's represent good value for all involved parties.

Either Dortmund makes a pre arrangement with United and tries to find a replacement before end of July or they sell him as soon as possible and use the money as wisely as possible. One of those two solutions will give them public credit, it will send the right messages to their own players and fans and they will walk out of this problematic situation with dignity. I know losing quality players hurts, especially if they run down their contract and let their agents trash talk your club, but, with all things into concideration this is probably the best possible outcome.

Finally. If these deal doesn't go thru before August then Mou and Woody will probably move to their next target. Business as usual and the train just continue to next station. That's how it works.

 

[Revan]

+ Götze

Hummels 38mio€ plus bonus, Götze 37 mio €, both were records.

Its even funny cause Hummels we get him from Buyern years ago for nearly nothing. With Götze they flushed money down the toilet for 3 years, wanting to get rid of him now as fast as they can. Great.

For Bayern, the money is nowhere as big a concern as for BVB. As long as they continue winning titles by getting BVB's best player (even if they don't do well for Bayern, they weaken BVB massively) they are happy to give 40m euros to BVB each year.

 

[SomeRandomPerson]

Perfect example for me there

How many players have Atletico sold to Real?

Truthfully, and weirdly, I can't even remember any of Atletico's players being linked with a move to Real. Falcao was briefly, but I strongly suspect Falcao's move to Monaco was a shady Jorge Mendes deal and not just about the money.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

For Bayern, the money is nowhere as big a concern as for BVB. As long as they continue winning titles by getting BVB's best player (even if they don't do well for Bayern, they weaken BVB massively) they are happy to give 40m euros to BVB each year.

It appears many are not quite understanding this. Bayern's strategy is to weaken Dortmund, has been since BVB's last title, they weaken their squad, team, brand... everything. And it's due to Bayern doing this that other good players don't want to stay at Dortmund, who would? Cause what chance do they have against Bayern when their own club keep strengthening them?

It's been such a successful strategy for Bayern.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Truthfully, and weirdly, I can't even remember any of Atletico's players being linked with a move to Real. Falcao was briefly, but I strongly suspect Falcao's move to Monaco was a shady Jorge Mendes deal and not just about the money.

Exactly, Madrid wanted both Falcao and Aguero... but it didn't even come up for discussion cause it's just never gonna happen. Atletico let their players know this in no uncertain terms and find them another buyer before they ever get into the final year and a risk situation with Real.

 

[Obiorahking_]

I don't mean to be nitpicky here but where are people getting the 20 assist in the Bundesliga from? It is 15.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I don't mean to be nitpicky here but where are people getting the 20 assist in the Bundesliga from? It is 15.

15? I have it as 45.

 

[King Kendrick]

Perfect example for me there

How many players have Atletico sold to Real?

Real and Atletico have a gentleman's agreement in place to not buy players off each other.

 

[Obiorahking_]

15? I have it as 45.

I knew it wasn't just me seeing this, and the funny thing is that people seem to be increasing his assist tally with every post to hype him up even more.

He dosen't need hype. He is a great player who would put us in a much more favorable position to win the league--granted our players are healthy.

Second of all, where are people getting the Mata comparisons from? They are getting a little bit ridiculous now considering that Mickey has proven he can play as a natural winger.

 

[U99ted]

Im not concerned with this signing. I'm with Jose for this signing. Mainly because I do think we need a no10 role. Just like Jose, Mata isn't favourable in my list. Mata has too many weakness and probably a player who is so limit and full of weakness I have ever known/watched in professional football and even Sir Alex used his weakness to beat Chelsea back then. If Jose thinks Mkhitaryan is the man for our no10 role then I'm with him. He's versatile. The price isn't high. The stats last season was mad. And his first season stats wasn't bad as well. So he's not exactly a one good season player.

Mata is the most limited player you've ever seen in football? Also we beat Chelsea twice when he was there, an incredibly open 3-1 game, and a 3-2 against 9 men (where Mata scored). Mata's weaknesses were hardly the source of those victories. We also lost to them, with Mata even scoring the winner.

About Mkhitaryan, I agree and would like him here. It makes no sense for people to turn up their noses at a Dortmund player who had a great season but demand we sign Leicester players for their freak seasons.

 

[Footyislife]

I don't mean to be nitpicky here but where are people getting the 20 assist in the Bundesliga from? It is 15.

Depends on where you look some places it says 14, 15, 16, or 20. Sometimes they don't give credit for an assist if there was a touch in between. If you watch though he has had 20 assists. Bundesliga site says 15, however, Transfermarkt which is much better statistically (also german) has him correctly at 20. If you want the statistics to correctly reflect the players skill then lets credit him for the whopping 23 goals and 32 assists he's had all season. Should have just led off with those impressive numbers instead of my "pitiful attempts at increasing his assist tally".

 

[United Pro]

I knew it wasn't just me seeing this, and the funny thing is that people seem to be increasing his assist tally with every post to hype him up even more.

He dosen't need hype. He is a great player who would put us in a much more favorable position to win the league--granted our players are healthy.

Second of all, where are people getting the Mata comparisons from? They are getting a little bit ridiculous now considering that Mickey has proven he can play as a natural winger.

Different websites have his assists as different amount. I was looking at transfermarkt which have him down as 20 assists.

 

[goin4glory]

People comparing Miki to Mata should give up on watching football.