Imagine the memes if Kane doesn't play and England win.
Final | Spain vs England
- Thread starter top1whoisman
- Start date
We want revenge from the 1996 robbery. It still hurts
False. Spain played 3 games with a starting 9 (Torres twice in the group stage and Negredo once in knockouts) and another 3 with Cesc upfront (the final among them). Spain played the same way we played the rest of the Championship.
Spain built with the ball all goals except the 3rd, from behind.
Spain "won" 6-1 in the group stage and 6-0 in the knockouts. "Little penetration".
You should revisit that championship because your clearly don't remember it very well.
be a little bit serious, you were winning literally one minute against netherlands and it was enough to see bellingham rolling like he was dead in a fault that merely touched him.
I guess it is due to historical reasons but Netherlands is the country that I see a higher ratio or hate/"good wishes" against Spain in any topic haha. Thank you.
It is interesting from a Spanish point of view because we don't feel any kind of rivalry with Netherlands. We would expect it from France/England specially, but you are like Congo to us in that sense, 100% neutral.
Seriously? You want to discuss Spanish unsporting behaviour vs English ones? Yes Bellingham is bad, guess where he picked that up from, because it certainly wasn't at Borussia Dortmund.
For the past two decades, Spain have had Busquets, Pedro, Villa, Gavi (doing a great job replacing Busquets in more ways than one), Ramos, Pique, Alba, Carjaval, Rodri, Pedri, Nacho, Albiol, Isco, Asensio, Fabregas, all whom on their own could be considered one of the most unsporting players in the world.
the only two players I didn't think were complete knobs whilst playing during the late peak Spain era was Alonso and Iniesta, and in the early era Marcos Senna.
Spanish players train in the dark arts as a fecking artform, and it's pretty egregious to deny this.
Agree. It's because Duque de Alba
The reason is both simple and petty. You beat us in 2010 and I will hate you forever for it
The whole 80 years war and independence thing doesn't even begin to make up for it.
Really looking forward to this. Spain will get joy down their flanks because Bellingham doesn't track back enough and that will leave Yamal 1v1 constantly against Shaw or Trippier, while Williams is a constant menace on the left.
I see Cucurella vs Saka as England's biggest avenue of potential. Nacho and Laporte will manage Kane but I think Watkins would trouble them more with his pace and running in the channels. Could be key for England again if they go into the last 10 mins level again / game goes to ET.
I see Cucurella vs Saka as England's biggest avenue of potential. Nacho and Laporte will manage Kane but I think Watkins would trouble them more with his pace and running in the channels. Could be key for England again if they go into the last 10 mins level again / game goes to ET.
Spain are massive favourites.
Win or lose we're gonna have a party.
I know a few people have already got Monday off
Win or lose we're gonna have a party.
I know a few people have already got Monday off
mmm. I remember Spain being rather dull in that Euro to be honest, and not particularly great either. Besides Ireland and the final against Italy, the rest of the tournament felt rather like they were playing with the handbrake on - and given they were outplayed by Croatia and Portugal and needed Iker to save them, coupled with 2014, I rather think the final was a swansong - that team had one great game in them and managed to save it for the final
Germany had already overtaken them as the best team in the world, they just run into a good Italy side and, well. History would not be denied
It's interesting that Spain are, for all intent and purposes, a better version of 2021 Italy. And in a similar vein, 2018 Croatia
spain are nothing more than colombian fans. england, the righteous fists of nunez.
I don’t think they’re massive favourites. Player for player it’s very equal, and England have far more big game experience including a few wins. The big threats for Spain are obviously Williams and Yamal, but I cannot think of 2 better full backs than Walker and Shaw, and a better system than England’s 5-2-2-1 to stop them.
Think we desperately need a performance from Kane in this final, think most other areas it’s fairly even except Spain look far more cohesive.
Just realised that Kane is on the brink of his first every trophy.
I reckon you’ve got your name on the trophy. England haven’t been great but have had a good amount of luck and steadily improved as the tournament has progressed. Most teams who win tournaments do this. Spain have been brilliant but they’ve faced zero hardship aside from the Germany game and zero drop offs in their level. It feels like a struggle is coming.
not for the first time though - he had some meaningful finals already, right? Euro 2020 and that dreadful Champions League final are all I can think of.
True but this could be the monkey of his (and England’s of course). I actually sort of forgot about him which tells you how poor he’s been I guess.
Some surprising underrating of both teams when it comes to saying one will clearly win. Spain have beaten every single team they've played against in this tournament including the host nation and the French, requiring extra time only once, and have played the best football. They have an absolutely dominant midfield (as usual) and a good defence with two of their best defenders coming back after the France game. The only concerns are up front and squad depth but that didn't stop Italy winning the Euros in 2021. Also Rodri look injured and was signalling to come off against France at the end which looked worrying for them but that could be nothing.
England on the other hand have easily the best squad depth in the tournament, they find a way to win even when not at their best and have repeatedly come back to win games when conceding first which shows a real resilience. You also wouldn't bet against any team beating them at penalties after that performance against Switzerland in the shootout. I don't think it's wrong or being critical to say that luck can play a big part in tournament wins and everything does seem to be falling very nicely for them. The only real concern is that they call fall into some bad habits and drop deep and try to hang on when playing for another goal is the better strategy, and maybe Harry Kane's fitness. They have also played more minutes than Spain I believe.
I do have a feeling England will do it. The Spanish are a side you never quite feel confident against though.
England on the other hand have easily the best squad depth in the tournament, they find a way to win even when not at their best and have repeatedly come back to win games when conceding first which shows a real resilience. You also wouldn't bet against any team beating them at penalties after that performance against Switzerland in the shootout. I don't think it's wrong or being critical to say that luck can play a big part in tournament wins and everything does seem to be falling very nicely for them. The only real concern is that they call fall into some bad habits and drop deep and try to hang on when playing for another goal is the better strategy, and maybe Harry Kane's fitness. They have also played more minutes than Spain I believe.
I do have a feeling England will do it. The Spanish are a side you never quite feel confident against though.
Interesting watch
55/60% for Spain to me. I honestly don't think the favouritism is very different to that
And advantage for Spain is that I think that we played a wider range of teams, but England hasn't played against any high pressure/high energy team. Im curious how they will cop it. Long balls? more short passes? will England be able to easily break that pressure?
No, I don't want to discuss that, as I don't want to discuss flat Earth. So this will be my last post regarding that topic.
You are just ultra biased. Bellingham is bad, because Spain, of course... haha. And I don't know... Kane, why he dives? maybe his summers in Ibiza? that must be it. What else could be? You just have your story in your head and that's it. You just watch a game with a Spanish player and if he is fouled and not injured for 5 months.... "ohh he is diving, he is play acting!!!". You simply are not as interested if the fouled is not Spanish. My god, you were even protesting for the Germany game where a Spanish player was injured for months (Pedri) in the 3rth minute and Kroos wasn't even booked!
Then you start listing a random list of Spanish players. Albiol... why not? let's add him there! I can help you if you need to add some other random players to the list, I know many!
I actually googled real quick (biggest divers of the world and similar searches) and your list is far, far, very far away from what I see. So... what?
"Diving" is generally a (bigger) problem from:
- Teams who keep the ball (more passes, more time with the ball = more tackles = more fouls = more diving/play acting/you just fall to the ground because.... they fouled you?)
- Teams who are usually winning/closer to their objective (if you need a goal you will try to get playing faster... if you are winning 1 minute in a game you just have one chance to dive, ring a bell?)
- Technically gifted players (on the ball, dribbling...): harder for the opposition to recover the ball and they are just fouled more often. Sometimes you just have butchers that only thing they can do is a horrible tackle.
And it is used as an excuse for losers, usually teams that weren't winning, with worse players, teams that cannot hold the ball... frustration. If you win it is easier to forget robberies/dives from the less technical/worse team that lost to you, because you spend time celebrating, not crying and making up excuses. That is why dominant/good teams are generally talked as favored by refs, luck, etc., it might be true or not, but the echo chamber plays a huge role in downsizing success of these teams and giving credit to losers using these types of excuses.
VAR has a few things to improve but diving is much better, and of course, in general crystal clear penalties and off sides.
If there is any difference in diving/play acting between countries / teams, is not the massive difference you see and it is actually very similar, so using that to insult countries is just meh...
PD: I want a clock like in basketball. 30 minutes each half. Clock stopped when not playing. You might think about "play acting", and you are right, but continuous fouling (the only way some team can try to stop better teams) is also a complete waste of time.
That makes total sense.
What a pity we cannot renew the subscription for that hate this Sunday... forever is not enough i would like a forever forever hate!!!!
I think playing Bundesliga for Bayern was putting on the brink already... haha
And advantage for Spain is that I think that we played a wider range of teams, but England hasn't played against any high pressure/high energy team. Im curious how they will cop it. Long balls? more short passes? will England be able to easily break that pressure?
No, I don't want to discuss that, as I don't want to discuss flat Earth. So this will be my last post regarding that topic.
You are just ultra biased. Bellingham is bad, because Spain, of course... haha. And I don't know... Kane, why he dives? maybe his summers in Ibiza? that must be it. What else could be? You just have your story in your head and that's it. You just watch a game with a Spanish player and if he is fouled and not injured for 5 months.... "ohh he is diving, he is play acting!!!". You simply are not as interested if the fouled is not Spanish. My god, you were even protesting for the Germany game where a Spanish player was injured for months (Pedri) in the 3rth minute and Kroos wasn't even booked!
Then you start listing a random list of Spanish players. Albiol... why not? let's add him there! I can help you if you need to add some other random players to the list, I know many!
I actually googled real quick (biggest divers of the world and similar searches) and your list is far, far, very far away from what I see. So... what?
"Diving" is generally a (bigger) problem from:
- Teams who keep the ball (more passes, more time with the ball = more tackles = more fouls = more diving/play acting/you just fall to the ground because.... they fouled you?)
- Teams who are usually winning/closer to their objective (if you need a goal you will try to get playing faster... if you are winning 1 minute in a game you just have one chance to dive, ring a bell?)
- Technically gifted players (on the ball, dribbling...): harder for the opposition to recover the ball and they are just fouled more often. Sometimes you just have butchers that only thing they can do is a horrible tackle.
And it is used as an excuse for losers, usually teams that weren't winning, with worse players, teams that cannot hold the ball... frustration. If you win it is easier to forget robberies/dives from the less technical/worse team that lost to you, because you spend time celebrating, not crying and making up excuses. That is why dominant/good teams are generally talked as favored by refs, luck, etc., it might be true or not, but the echo chamber plays a huge role in downsizing success of these teams and giving credit to losers using these types of excuses.
VAR has a few things to improve but diving is much better, and of course, in general crystal clear penalties and off sides.
If there is any difference in diving/play acting between countries / teams, is not the massive difference you see and it is actually very similar, so using that to insult countries is just meh...
PD: I want a clock like in basketball. 30 minutes each half. Clock stopped when not playing. You might think about "play acting", and you are right, but continuous fouling (the only way some team can try to stop better teams) is also a complete waste of time.
The reason is both simple and petty. You beat us in 2010 and I will hate you forever for it
The whole 80 years war and independence thing doesn't even begin to make up for it.
That makes total sense.
What a pity we cannot renew the subscription for that hate this Sunday... forever is not enough
i would like a forever forever hate!!!!I think playing Bundesliga for Bayern was putting on the brink already... haha
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Francis Drake time.
I will be there for that. If any other striker was in this tournament, I’d have wanted England to win. But I want Kane to be a Dan Marino of sorts. Greatest striker to never win a major title.
This is why Kane needs to be dropped in the final. Southgate shouldn't make the mistake Poch did in the UCL final against Pool.
Play Watkins or Toney and if you’re leading with 5-10 mins left, sub in Kane so he can say he played during the final.
At this point it’s about winning the final, not appeasing to fans or player’s feelings.
I’m sure Kane would rather win a Euro not playing in the final than lose playing all 90/120 mins.
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You sure about that? Kane has that "all about me" aura to him.
Kane is ronaldo of this England team, he needs to be dropped for Watkins as he offers a lot more to overall play, Kane can be subbed in, Toney has too big of an ego which doesn’t match his talent for him not to work hard
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...Nunez didn't manage to throw any punch, he got punched instead
This jammy English team will find a way to win. Pity.
English or Spanish?
Because of Mainoo I want England to win. Here in Austria/Germany it seems everyone is talking about Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Kane, Yamal, Williams etc. while Mainoo does not get mentioned.
While Yamal and Williams are great players and Barcelona has a lot to look forward to with these two boys on the wings I believe it is much more impressive to play in the centre as young lad in that calme and determined way Mainoo has been doing on the big stage.
While Yamal and Williams are great players and Barcelona has a lot to look forward to with these two boys on the wings I believe it is much more impressive to play in the centre as young lad in that calme and determined way Mainoo has been doing on the big stage.
I genuinely think that’s how we have a chance. He’ll never be dropped though.
Southgate has accidentally stumbled onto a superior formula with the 3-4-2-1 setup in my opinion, and Saka has been key to that. Saka has been very, very good in the last two matches. He's been as defensively good as a top tier right back while also being as threatening as a top tier right winger. Trippier has been pretty crap but if you put Shaw in that position it looks much better on that side as well. Mainoo has been a big difference maker as well, as he's the one player they've been able to count on to constantly get the ball moving forward. Foden's workrate has been insane. Any team that is attacking is coming up against approximately 8 players defending and pressing them, which has been England's biggest strength thus far in my opinion. They seem to be really hard to score against. Kane has been absolutely awful, and Bellingham has not been very good either but he can still come up with a moment out of nothing, which is generally what England's attack has relied on, these moments.
England are really hard to score against, and they have enough quality to only need a half chance to score a goal.
England are really hard to score against, and they have enough quality to only need a half chance to score a goal.
That is what should happen. Kane has been terrible. There's no doubt that Watkins or Toney would add more to the team than Kane. The only thing he's better at than them in this tourmanet is going down in the box like he's been shot.
It's a squad game. Watkins coming on in the 70th minute could devastate the Spanish defence.
Good post.
The players you mentioned do the more eye catching things, especially scoring.
Wheres, Mainoo is operating in the engine room for England.
But hopefully he will become a much better known player if England win in Berlin.
If England start the as they have for most of the tournament, they will struggle and get frustrated. If Spain play the game and not the occasion, they win.
Doesn't matter what happens after the 70th minute if the game is gone by then. People massively underestimate how much of a team sport football is and how much your setup dictates the oppositions ability to play. Without pace in our forward line Spain can play much higher up the pitch. Stifle us and win the midfield battle. This is a single wrong player can cause such problems in a team when there are 10 other guys around him.
People also underestimate how much of a squad game football is. The likes of saka, walker Shaw can get in behind, even Bellingham. Watkins off the bench has more of an impact and can change a game than kane IMO.
England seem to be getting better as the tournament progresses and a different player has shone each match. If Foden or Kane step up I think we can do it as although their strengths are the 2 wingers, we've arguably got 2 of the best full backs in the world (Walker only on the defensive side) at the moment to try and deal with them. Whilst if Kane shines, they don't have a stand out CB to absolute tie him down.
I don't get this whole "let's not get carried away" mood dampening on Twitter. Why not?
What's the point of getting to a final if you can't enjoy it and dream?
Let's not let ourselves enjoy getting to final, let's be nervous throughout the match and then upset if we don't win?
What a crap way to look at it. England fans should be letting themselves get carried away and dreaming of winning
What's the point of getting to a final if you can't enjoy it and dream?
Let's not let ourselves enjoy getting to final, let's be nervous throughout the match and then upset if we don't win?
What a crap way to look at it. England fans should be letting themselves get carried away and dreaming of winning
To be fair, it's a very English approach.
England conceded in each of their KO games, and while the dutch were gash, both Slovakia and Switzerland were good for their goals. Slovakia could have scored more at that
England have not been hard to score against
You're not wrong per se but you're making pretty wild assumptions here and jumping to conclusions. People underestimate how football is a low scoring sport and how much randomness, a single passage of play, can influence the entire game
Yes agreed, the general mood this tournament has been confusingly low. We're not allowed to sing its coming home even now because it's apparently arrogant.
All they talk about in the media is the criticism and their response to that etc. Only the Spanish are allowed to enjoy it because they create lots of chances etc