I think there's something inherent in people that simply don't want mediocrity to be rewarded. Short-term mediocrity, sure; long-term mediocrity, no. People look at the sheer resources at his disposal, and then couple that with the fortuitous multi-tournament draws, and surmise that it's been an overreliance upon the talent of individuals to carry him.
Final | Spain vs England
- Thread starter top1whoisman
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I think there's something inherent in people that simply don't want mediocrity to be rewarded. Short-term mediocrity, sure; long-term mediocrity, no. People look at the sheer resources at his disposal, and then couple that with the fortuitous multi-tournament draws, and surmise that it's been an overreliance upon the talent of individuals to carry him.
Pretty much this. Two Euros now where England have had the gods in their favour propelling them along - last time round it was kind match ups and Wembley, this time its avoiding all the big boys until the final. And they've gotten there huffing and puffing, playing dour football and relying on dodgy calls to help them through. They were minutes away going out to the likes of footballing giants such as Slovakia and Switzerland, and made a meal against one of the worst Dutch sides in living memory. And this is despite having what I'd imagine is the most expensive squad in the tournament. Nothing against England personally, but I feel Spain are definitely the more deserved winners considering the football they play, and the teams they've had to overcome to get to the final.
Eh, if Kane squares it to Sterling it probably works against Croatia. Against Italy I think playing at Wembley played against them. Too rushed, not enough clarity to turn promising situations into chances. The goal was a rehearsed play, something trained specifically - coaching staff doesn't get the kudos it deserves for that btw - beyond that it was the end of covid season and players were more shattered tha usual. Southgate's one glaring flaw - his and his team's inability to adapt on the fly and find new solutions once the initial gameplan stops working - didn't help
Problem is, giorno, I would've blooded Gordon and Wharton earlier in the competition to see what they're made of and whether they were viable options for the final. I would've also explored the theory behind what I'd like to execute later in the competition, should such and such opponent emerge. Southgate's failing in that regard is that these two are now unknown entities who have no chance of suddenly featuring in a final.
Any hypothetical has to conclude with a basis of the reality Southgate has outlined throughout the competition. He's not dropping Kane. Foden will start and the rest of the team - sans Shaw - is set.
England have an eclectic squad that has the means to work the exploits of anyone they face. It was the trump card going into the competition, and even if it didn't work out, ultimately, it was always a major asset.
I think the game will be a lot more competitive than I initially thought, even via Southgate's method, England can legitimately get at Spain whilst remaining relatively defensively sound, and that counts for a lot.
I think this has a high probability of happening, but England have a really solid set of options off the bench, whilst Spain do not and if the game is tight and has gone into deeper waters, that has the potential to affect the game.
Spain are kryptonite to England if allowed to play their natural game, but the same is true of England to Spain if England get in behind them and make them work backward, they are really not cut out for that over a prolonged period of time.
He's a big concern for me. Either from ghosting or a long range screamer as well as set pieces, as you've said.
as good as Palmer is, he loses the ball more than either of them, which could be costly against Spain
This Sunday, Mainoo is comin' like
Ian Wright on the telly here saying Jordan Pickford would get in a combined England and Spain XI
Come on mate we all know Spain will pull out every trick in the book, any advantage that can be gained from writhing around on the floor in agony for 5 minutes will be milked to the absolute last drop. Las5 match you had Morata go down under a challenge that floored him for about 10 minutes, all the while clutching the other foot that didn’t even make contact in the tackle55/60% for Spain to me. I honestly don't think the favouritism is very different to that
And advantage for Spain is that I think that we played a wider range of teams, but England hasn't played against any high pressure/high energy team. Im curious how they will cop it. Long balls? more short passes? will England be able to easily break that pressure?
No, I don't want to discuss that, as I don't want to discuss flat Earth. So this will be my last post regarding that topic.
You are just ultra biased. Bellingham is bad, because Spain, of course... haha. And I don't know... Kane, why he dives? maybe his summers in Ibiza? that must be it. What else could be? You just have your story in your head and that's it. You just watch a game with a Spanish player and if he is fouled and not injured for 5 months.... "ohh he is diving, he is play acting!!!". You simply are not as interested if the fouled is not Spanish. My god, you were even protesting for the Germany game where a Spanish player was injured for months (Pedri) in the 3rth minute and Kroos wasn't even booked!
Then you start listing a random list of Spanish players. Albiol... why not? let's add him there! I can help you if you need to add some other random players to the list, I know many!
I actually googled real quick (biggest divers of the world and similar searches) and your list is far, far, very far away from what I see. So... what?
"Diving" is generally a (bigger) problem from:
- Teams who keep the ball (more passes, more time with the ball = more tackles = more fouls = more diving/play acting/you just fall to the ground because.... they fouled you?)
- Teams who are usually winning/closer to their objective (if you need a goal you will try to get playing faster... if you are winning 1 minute in a game you just have one chance to dive, ring a bell?)
- Technically gifted players (on the ball, dribbling...): harder for the opposition to recover the ball and they are just fouled more often. Sometimes you just have butchers that only thing they can do is a horrible tackle.
And it is used as an excuse for losers, usually teams that weren't winning, with worse players, teams that cannot hold the ball... frustration. If you win it is easier to forget robberies/dives from the less technical/worse team that lost to you, because you spend time celebrating, not crying and making up excuses. That is why dominant/good teams are generally talked as favored by refs, luck, etc., it might be true or not, but the echo chamber plays a huge role in downsizing success of these teams and giving credit to losers using these types of excuses.
VAR has a few things to improve but diving is much better, and of course, in general crystal clear penalties and off sides.
If there is any difference in diving/play acting between countries / teams, is not the massive difference you see and it is actually very similar, so using that to insult countries is just meh...
PD: I want a clock like in basketball. 30 minutes each half. Clock stopped when not playing. You might think about "play acting", and you are right, but continuous fouling (the only way some team can try to stop better teams) is also a complete waste of time.
That makes total sense.
What a pity we cannot renew the subscription for that hate this Sunday... forever is not enoughi would like a forever forever hate!!!!
I think playing Bundesliga for Bayern was putting on the brink already... haha
I kind of admire the teams that do it. Ruthlessly effective. Fundamentally immoral and unsporting… well yeah, but hey it’s still your name on the trophy at the end. Fair play! Ok well not fair… but you get what I mean!
If England play like they did in the first half against Holland they have a chance. They have such a huge bench that could become a factor too.
However Spain play really composed football and have the best midfielder in the world, forget goalscorers. Metronomic midfielders are generational and they have one in Rodri. I can't really call it, but I'd fancy Spain. If it goes to penalties, it's England.
However Spain play really composed football and have the best midfielder in the world, forget goalscorers. Metronomic midfielders are generational and they have one in Rodri. I can't really call it, but I'd fancy Spain. If it goes to penalties, it's England.
Some England fans have lost their balls when it comes to this fixture. Sure Spain are favourites but it's nothing insane, 60% at most, in my mind it's a bit less but on performances in the tournament 60% is fair.
England have some trumps in the game. Yes Spain have the more technical midfield, they're in form, that's why they're favourites because on paper and pre tournament they wouldn't have been. So it's down to their play of course they deserve that status.
But if you look at the 1 v 1s England have enough compelling ones to cause Spain issues in their backline. I don't think individually the defenders of Spain are that fantastic to actually defend, Saka, Foden, Bellingham can worry them with their ability and athleticism. Then England from the bench have some great matchups too against tiring legs.
Also defensively as much as Spain won't be so worried about Kane at this time, Morata won't faze England and they will fancy Walker covering from the RCB position against one of Spain's main threats. The left side would be the main concern.
In my mind it's even closer than the bookies odds.
England have some trumps in the game. Yes Spain have the more technical midfield, they're in form, that's why they're favourites because on paper and pre tournament they wouldn't have been. So it's down to their play of course they deserve that status.
But if you look at the 1 v 1s England have enough compelling ones to cause Spain issues in their backline. I don't think individually the defenders of Spain are that fantastic to actually defend, Saka, Foden, Bellingham can worry them with their ability and athleticism. Then England from the bench have some great matchups too against tiring legs.
Also defensively as much as Spain won't be so worried about Kane at this time, Morata won't faze England and they will fancy Walker covering from the RCB position against one of Spain's main threats. The left side would be the main concern.
In my mind it's even closer than the bookies odds.
English or Spanish?
Heart says Spain, head also says Spain. I guess I'm supporting Spain.
how pathetic.Agreed - also in Finals so many other intangibles come into play that makes it hard to make one team strong favourites.
As an England fan, supported them since that friendly competition in 1997 with Brazil, France and Italy, I really hope they win come Sunday night, that loss against Italy in 2021 was too much but hopefully this is the one, let's go.
If it stays level longer, I think England have the advantage. They have more dangerous attacking options to bring on than Spain. They won’t want to see Watkins/Gordon/Palmer coming on at the hour mark. They don’t have anyone that you would really fear coming on for them.
It is a difficult situation, but my point was that Spain made it look simple because of how good they were. Maybe the final will be when they finally trip up, whereas England have tripped up in 5/6 of their games this tournament already. The intention of my post was absolutely not to discredit Spain’s unbelievable run, more to say that after England getting out of jail at least 3 times now, their name is on the trophy.
It’s similar to Real Madrid’s CL win in 2022 actually.
You make some good points regarding players/tactics, however I think a lot of the pessimism stems from football heritage. To me, this is a similar feeling as going into a CL final as an English team vs a Spanish team who have a history of winning finals. I heard the other day that Spanish teams have won their last 22 finals. That stat fills me with dread
In fairness, Holland have an unholy number of giants in the team. Your best defensive headers can only mark 2 or 3 of Van Dijk, De Vrij, Gakpo, Dumfries, Aké, Weghorst, Zirkzee etc etc. Against Spain there won't be the same number of threats on the pitch simultaneously.
Just can't look past Spain winning this and I think it'll be quite comfortable at the end.
Hopefully a good game and fingers crossed for an England win.
If they don’t make it though still an excellent achievement to reach back to back Euro finals, along with semis in the WC etc.
Many other countries could never dream of that, or the excitement going that deep in tournaments gives you, so just enjoy the ride and whatever will be will be!
If they don’t make it though still an excellent achievement to reach back to back Euro finals, along with semis in the WC etc.
Many other countries could never dream of that, or the excitement going that deep in tournaments gives you, so just enjoy the ride and whatever will be will be!
It has been great with some magic moments. Bellinghams overhead, winning a penalty shootout and Watkins goal was the best, last minute winners are feckin ace, it was like Amads goal. The early struggles and shit form makes it better in a funny kind of way and to reach the final is fantastic. It will be nervy as feck tomorrow.
Oh right, this dumb tournament no one cares about isn't done yet.
I care about it but it sucks that they didn't consider european audiences and the game happens at like 2 AM on a Monday -.-
England no doubt have some great talent that can cause Spain massive problems. The biggest question I have is will the team and Southgate play the game or the occasion? England haven't got over the line since the 60s. It's a Monkey to get off their back.
Agreed. Yamal and Williams will pin our fullbacks back and they will need help from those in front of them. Ruiz, Rodri and Olmo will be too much for us. We'll be beated by the 70% + possession Spain will have and tire and make mistakes.
Only way to win is to drag it out to penalties as Spain have a awful penalty shootout record.
You can read every post in here but we all know in the end it comes down to the Kane curse. So Spain to lift the trophy
I don't usually care too much about national team football because most teams play shitty defensive football like England or France. This time, however, I'm going to watch it with the hope Spain wins vs shitty defensive football.