Forget Leclerc or Norris in the Red Bull, get Piastri in. He's going to eclipse both.
F1 2023 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Russell blocking Hamilton.
Piastri. 
well that was pretty boring .
Piastri is the real deal, I can see him winning a race before Norris
Unlucky Piastri.
Hes just annoyed that hes starting to get his arse kicked by hamilton.
Yeh so can i. Norris upto 93 GP and no wins. Piastri has 11 GP and no wins. He has 19 races left to win a GP and stay under the 30GP cutoff that i think all the multiple world champions have made.
Come on, he doesn't need to win 7WC to be amongst those two drivers. That's really silly. There is so much luck involved there that is out of the drivers' control. Sorry, but he really is amongst the greatest of all time. It's impossible to rank the ultimate, who's the best of the best, because it's so different. Look, I know this thread is the Lewis Hamilton appreciation thread and that's fine, there's a lot of British fans here so it makes perfect sense, but it's so silly to to deny that he's isn't among the greatest. The man has already proved himself. Come on.
As for the bold, I'm not sure what this means. He didn't have the best overall car when we won in 2021, so...
On certain tracks it was, and on certain tracks the Merc was. The Merc was a rocket ship. Bit random, but I was watching the 2021 season highlights the other week, and that Merc was a monster. And, yes, of course that RB was too, especially on certain tracks. But there's not way you can say that the RB was clearly the best car that year. That's just fantasy, as some may say.
Just a classic retort. Happens in the football forum, too. Don't agree with my opinion then you're in fantasy land and you know nothing about the sport. Max didn't have the best car in 2021. It was incredibly even. Certain tracks suited the Merc, others the RB. The Merc was a rocketship on certain weekends. It was such a great season because of this.
Really like Piastri. He's such a clam and mature driver and is keeping Lando on his toes. Could be a really special talent this one.
I never said he needed 7 WC, I said he has to carry on winning and I have never denied he is a great driver and I have never denied it will be one of the greats, IMO he is not there yet and it has feck all to do with Lewis.
Has for 2021 least said about that year the better, but you make a fair point about it.
I just don't want them both ending up in Ferrari and wasting their careers. One of them can surely replace Lewis at some point. The other will end up at RB I think. Not sure who goes where though.
Shame. He was looking like he was going to challenge for pole again.
Agreed. I've been really impressed by him. Definitely living up to the hype.
You said he has to be at the top for a minimum of five years to be even close, and also said he's nowhere near Lewis or Schumacher's records (7WC), implying that he has to get there before being regarded as a GOAT contender. Right? What am i reading wrong there. And I know you've never denied he's a great driver - I never even accused you of saying that! The debate was about whether he's a GOAT contender, which you don't think he is. Which is fine, of course, you can have your opinion on that, but i just find it a bit absurd that you can watch the way this guy drives and not come to that conclusion. After a certain while, the titles become irrelevant. Alonso is one of the GOATS, for me, and he's nowhere near it in terms of titles. It was clear that Hamilton was there before he even got close to 7WC.
Not sure what your comment "least said about that year, the better" means. Yes, I'm not going to be deliberately obtuse here and deny it didn't end in a controversial manner, but overall it was a fantastic season, with two phenomenal drivers (GOAT drivers, some may say!) and i do think the best driver won. Surprise, surprise, I'm a Max fan so i would say that, right. But i genuinely think he was the best driver overall that season, in a car that wasn't clearly the best.
Be a travesty if he went to Ferrari!
I've always thought that Lando would replace Hamilton at Merc. I've always rated Lando highly. Piastri and RB with Max? Not sure. Not sure if RB want someone like that there. Would be epic though.
Yeah, a bit naughty that. Clearly fecked Hamilton over there.
I would judge him in a few years time when hes driven for a different team, only because of what happen with vettel as a cautionary tale. 4 years at RB and 4 WDCs on the trot. Then moved to ferrari (away from newey and RB) and couldnt hit those heights again. Theres every chance max could end up in a shit car in 2026 or a non RB car and be stuck on 3 or 4 WDCs ala vettel.
Who would have thought alonso would be stuck on 2 WDCs? As you said theres alot of luck involved in getting to 7 WDCs. Max is amongst the best of his generation no doubt. Just as Alonso and Hamilton are the best of their generation.
For me whats really lacking with verstappen is two things; 1. (which isnt his fault) is the lack of proper championship battles other than 2021. Schmacher had hakkinen and Villenvue (cant spell). Hamilton had alonso, rosberg, vettel (17/18 at ferrari) and verstappen 2021.
Senna had Prost and vice versa. They also had piquet and mansell as well.
Who did vettel have for his 4 wdc? 2 x of those were won by over 135points. So no-one. His first one was a fluke because ferrari threw the WDC away getting alonso stuck behind the renault of some russian dude. He had 1 season against Alonso where it was close and then the two seasons against hamilton at ferrari.
Im hopefully we can get a real close championship battle with vestappen against hamilton or alonso before they retire. Otherwise it looks like it could be leclerc or piastri (yeh im going with the hypetrain). But we all want to see max pushed to the edge to see what he can and cant do.
2. Verstappen moving away from RB and building a team around him to win the WDC. Hamilton did that as did schmacher. But thats post 2026.
Dude, cant be asked going over 2021 season. Anything else but 2021.
No wonder Alpine fired so much management. They had piastri and they let him slip through their fingers.
I think its a delicate season for lando, he really cant afford to be shown up by piastri, it will affect his future opportunites. It wouldnt suprise me if one of them went to ferrari and the other to RedBull by 2026 (piastri to replace verstappen at RB?).
I think leclerc will replace hamilton at Mercedes (just my opinion).
2021 was a fantastic season and yes I do think Lewis was robbed, looking over it again it was a very even season and Max winning would not have bothered me one bit, if it was won fair and square in the last last, but it was not. Did Max deserved to win, I would be an idiot to say no.
The bolded bit, I do think he is a GOAT contender, just not there yet, 3 WC on the bounce and maybe a 4th and yes he is there.
You being a Max fan , makes no difference to me, I give credit where it is due, and I give out criticism equally where it is due.
Maybe I was too harsh over Max and I can accept that. 2021 Lewis did have the better car.
Yeah, look, i think some of the points you make here are fair enough. No doubt. He's hasn't had any competition this season. None. However, as you said, he certainly did in 2021 (again, in a car that wasn't clearly the best) and he won it by being the best driver overall. Of course you can disagree, but that's my opinion on it. The reason i bring it up, is because he's clearly shown that he can do it when under pressure and when it matters. He's not just simply a driver who can look good when he got nobody behind him and an empty track in front. Don't think you're necessarily saying that, but just wanted to make that point.
Last season he did have Leclerc for a bit before both he and Ferrari shit the bed. I'm not going to say it was a nail biter, but it was there...for a bit! Anyway, I'm saying all this, again, to highlight that he has had competition and he comes out on top, while also agreeing that i would love to see him have more, becuase i genuinely think it would push him on even further. We've seen it a few times this season in Quali. The times when he really needed to pull it out of the bag, or when he's angry, he fecking nails it.
And, yeah, the final point, is that a lot of what you mention, there's so much luck involved that has nothing (or very little) to do with the driver. A lot of this stuff is out of their hands. He wins three in a row (which he obviously will do) then RB shit the bed for whatever reason and struggle. He moves to a team, but they also struggle, similar to what happened to Alonso, then that's really not on him. I really do consider Alonso a GOAT, and he's nowhere near the titles of some of the other GOAT contenders. But just watch the man race. Ultimately, much like when we talk about football players and argue about "well he hasn't won this trophy, etc." Yeah, but just watch him, man! It's there. He's a GOAT, for me. Not the GOAT becuase that's simply impossible to rank. But he's there. His race craft is exceptional.
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It's all good man. You're a very fair poster, to be honest. I also try to be "objective" but we all have biases. Of course, I want Max to win many titles, but i also want a really good championship battle. Becuase, as i've said many times, i think that would push him even further and bring out even more in him. Just like any of the best drivers of the sport over the years. Get Piastri or Leclerc at RB and let's go!
His race craft is fantastic which is why i want him to be truly pushed for a few more championship battles. It will be a shame for any F1 fans not to see him really pushed and have to drive to his utter limits.
One question for any max fan on here, do you think he has or will eventually (with age and maturity) have the ability to bring WDCs to ferrari i.e. do a schmacher and bring ferrari back to the top?
Cheers I appreciate that.
Piasrti has shocked me this season, he was not even on my radar, since his got got the upgrades he and Norris have been very good.
Piastri / Leclerc, I can see one of them taken over from Lewis when he does hang his driving gloves up
Can someone explain these sprint races? Is it just about Championship points, but unrelated to starting position on the Sunday? So Friday and Sunday are linked in their own bubble, but you can get extra points from the Saturday sprint?
Agreed on the first point.
Second question: no. Simply because i don't see him sticking around for that long. Think his contract is until 2028?? But there's more than a few people saying they can see him leaving in 2026. Also, just listening to how he speaks, I don't think F1 is everything to him. Think he may leave and try other race disciplines. I just get the sense that for him it was all about getting that WC. And he did it. Everything else is a bonus, and i don't think he cares too much about getting the 7 or 8 WC.
Now, he could very well go and dip his toes into other race disciplines and come back to the sport. That would be cool. He's young enough.
The sprint race is just for more racing, instead off FP.
More exciting for the fans, FIA views not mine.
There is WC points on offer yes.
Just saw the post sprint quali interview with Lewis. Guy is (rightfully) raging about George inside but biting his tongue hard.
He has the consistency and speed. Does he have the engineering knowhow and presence to drive a team to build a title winning car from scratch? Nobody knows yet. Just staying with RB and winning x championships in a row from here won't add anything to his legacy from this point forward though.
Two ways to enter the GOAT conversation in motorsport. Win multiple titles with different cars, building those cars up and developing them into winners. Like Schumacher and Senna. Or win in multiple disciplines. Like Hill and Alonso.
The original Sprint start time of 3:30pm has been pushed back to 4:05pm
Could see rain at 16:40 and again around 17:00, apparently.
I bet it's going to rain and they're going to delay it even further.
Did you mean schmacher and hamilton as senna only won his titles with mclaren (before his death).
Dunno why people are pretending max isn't a class driver. He obviously is.
Win in multiple disciplines like Nigel fecking mansell. Back to back with horrendous injuries to his foot and back.
Heres a stat that will probably never be matched or bettered. Fangio has 4 teams. Mental. No one is on three. Did anyone come close with a third team?
Drivers to have won WDC with more than one constructor:
Michael Schumacher (Benetton and Ferarri)
Jackie Stewart (Matra and Tyrell)
Graham Hill (Lotus and BRM)
Alain Prost (Williams and McLaren)
Nelson Piquet (Williams and Brabham)
Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren and Lotus)
Niki Lauda (McLaren and Ferarri)
Jack Brabham (Brabham and Cooper)
Juan Manuel Fangio (Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferarri, Mercedes)
Lewis Hamilton (McLaren and Mercedes)
Drivers to have won WDC with more than one constructor:
Michael Schumacher (Benetton and Ferarri)
Jackie Stewart (Matra and Tyrell)
Graham Hill (Lotus and BRM)
Alain Prost (Williams and McLaren)
Nelson Piquet (Williams and Brabham)
Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren and Lotus)
Niki Lauda (McLaren and Ferarri)
Jack Brabham (Brabham and Cooper)
Juan Manuel Fangio (Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Ferarri, Mercedes)
Lewis Hamilton (McLaren and Mercedes)
No-one said that.
Senna is a special case. He was insane with his attention to detail in developing the car.
I also think he would have won in 1994. He'd been on pole in every race, once Williams got the quirks ironed out Damon Hill of all people was 1 point off. Senna would have stormed it.