F1 2023 Season

Fully Fledged said:
I've said it many times recently. They are turning the sport into a farce. 1200 possible infractions and only something like 5 people penalised.
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I agree, complete farce. They need an alternative method for track limits which penalises the driver temporarily, and you can be sure they won't do it again. If they can detect when they're off the track and DRS, then they can impose something on the vehicles that exceed track limits.

I can guarantee you won't see any real punishments on track limits for the rest of the season, which makes this look like even more of a farcical process.
 
F-Red said:
I agree, complete farce. They need an alternative method for track limits which penalises the driver temporarily, and you can be sure they won't do it again. If they can detect when they're off the track and DRS, then they can impose something on the vehicles that exceed track limits.

I can guarantee you won't see any real punishments on track limits for the rest of the season, which makes this look like even more of a farcical process.
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I agree.
 
JJ12 said:
Are the F1 purists enjoying this Verstappen dominance or are you finding it tedious like a casual like me?
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Its dull, but so was hamitons domination. Unfortuntely dont see anyone catching RB till the new rule changes in 2026.
 
Widow said:
It's very boring tbh. Sure Max is a good driver but the car is just so much better than the rest.
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I can't watch it anymore.
Max is borderline likeable but he's got no competition. Boring. It's meant to be racing.
 
Stay within track limits...
Some drivers managed it, which suggests its possible. Even the guy in first was able to follow the rules.

Like they said in commentary, for Wimbledon this year, should we let them hit outside the lines
 
Funniest thing apart from Totto's "gerrunwithit" was the smooth intimidation of Seinz. Wonder if he still can't fall asleep out of fear?
 
Perez making a absolute meal of trying to pass sainz towards the end of the race shows why he'll never be a elite tier driver. Just not using any wit or racecraft going into T3. Just stay behind at activation line to get the DRS into T3.
 
Need to bring sausage kerbs in for next year, total joke of a sport.
 
JJ12 said:
Are the F1 purists enjoying this Verstappen dominance or are you finding it tedious like a casual like me?
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The fight for the WC is just as exciting as it's been pretty much every single season over the last 10-12 years bar a year or two, i.e not at all, so nothing's changed there.
The fight for place 2-20 both in qualifying and in races however is fantastic imo, even more so if Mclaren now can get in the mix with Perez, Ferrari, Aston and Merc as well. So if I take off my Ferrari hat I'm enjoying F1 more than I have in a long time, but I get if the casual viewers who might not care about who finishes where outside the top 3, or even outside top spot finds it more boring than ever seeing how far ahead Max is.
 
Igor Drefljak said:
Stay within track limits...
Some drivers managed it, which suggests its possible. Even the guy in first was able to follow the rules.

Like they said in commentary, for Wimbledon this year, should we let them hit outside the lines
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Just enforce it properly. These penalties are daft. The result had nothing to do with people cheating.
 
dinostar77 said:
Horner now getting max to push the RB line about the 2026 car. Drivers really should drive the cars and leave the politics to the team principals.

Rumour has it RB are struggling with their development of 2026 powertrain.

Cant see the rules being changed as the rules as they are is what attracted Honda, Audi and Ford.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/verstappen-launches-scathing-attack-on-f1s-2026-rules/
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Why has it taken Horner 11 months to pipe up about the 2026 rules? There's rumours that Honda are starting from scratch as all their key team who were working on the current RB engine have moved on to other projects within Honda.
 
F-Red said:
Why has it taken Horner 11 months to pipe up about the 2026 rules? There's rumours that Honda are starting from scratch as all their key team who were working on the current RB engine have moved on to other projects within Honda.
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Didn’t most of the key team members join RBR engine division
 
Urgh Stroll and Gasly being swapped has really fecked my prediction I had both in the right place til that

Re Max, it's the same as when Hamilton was dominant, but because he's a good driver you want to see him challenged - the first lap where he was racing Leclerc was fantastic, and when he caught them after his pit stop. Him just disappearing unchallenged feels hollow - same as when Lewis has had to come through the field you want to see him using his skill to overtake

The way some of them just got out Perez way because they knew his car was so much better than theirs just made a complete mockery of the sport - at least try. Sainz fought him and didn't let him just breeze past and was able to hold him up for a few laps.
 
F-Red said:
Why has it taken Horner 11 months to pipe up about the 2026 rules? There's rumours that Honda are starting from scratch as all their key team who were working on the current RB engine have moved on to other projects within Honda.
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Maybe it's taken them 11 months to run the simulations? To be honest the new regs sound utter wank.
 
For me if there’s 1.2k infractions then the track has to change. Something should be done, perhaps to the curb or something, to make it less desirable to go out wide I.E you lose time.
 
If I'm reading what I picked up from RBs comments on 26 correctly it seems very generally focused on three things:

aero will mean a lot less and pure engine power will once again be dominating the sport (and we know how that went before), the cars getting even heavier -not lighter, and even more of the engine power - up to 50% being pure battery power meaning recharging will become even more of a thing that it already has in the hybrid era.

The fact Max is jumping on that train now must mean he s seen the simulations. Rather than Toto and Horner getting into some kind of pissing match again, I would love to hear more about the new regs and whether there is some legitimate concern now that teams seemingly are getting an idea of what that time is going to look like. Raising issues with future regs a few years out seems a lot more kosher to me than complaining about regs we re a few seasons into now.
 
Redplane said:
If I'm reading what I picked up from RBs comments on 26 correctly it seems very generally focused on three things:

aero will mean a lot less and pure engine power will once again be dominating the sport (and we know how that went before), the cars getting even heavier -not lighter, and even more of the engine power - up to 50% being pure battery power meaning recharging will become even more of a thing that it already has in the hybrid era.

The fact Max is jumping on that train now must mean he s seen the simulations. Rather than Toto and Horner getting into some kind of pissing match again, I would love to hear more about the new regs and whether there is some legitimate concern now that teams seemingly are getting an idea of what that time is going to look like. Raising issues with future regs a few years out seems a lot more kosher to me than complaining about regs we re a few seasons into now.
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Problem for RB is that there was a 2026 car powertrain working group across all the manufacturers at which they were present.

They all agreed and signed up to the specifications required. To the point that Audi joined the sport and Honda re-joined. So i presume the manufacturers who make road cars think its achievable. RBPT have no road cars and are building their first PU, which must be daunting.

Give RBs current utter domination (perez imcompetence withstanding) of the sport, none of the other manufacturers are going to make concessions for them.
 
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Regarding the track limits I recall many times in the past where it was agreed certain corners were exempt and you could exceed the line as there was no real gain and the flow of the corner and car made it silly to enforce. Of course I'm not talking about cutting a chicane or taking a very wide angle.

You just widen the acceptance to not going beyond the red and white and making up your own circuit. Often riding too much curb will slow your car so cars aren't really trying to go very wide anyway. Seems we've got away from sense and become pedantic over the lines on every corner.

Fairly enjoyable race, was pleased Lando managed to hold the car position without any mishaps and keep the pace.
 
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dinostar77 said:
Problem for RB is that there was a 2026 car powertrain working group across all the manufacturers at which they were present.

They all agreed and signed up to the specifications required. To the point that Audi joined the sport and Honda re-joined. So i presume the manufacturers who make road cars think its achievable. RBPT have no road cars and are building their first PU, which must be daunting.

Give RBs current utter domination (perez imcompetence withstanding) of the sport, none of the other manufacturers are going to make concessions for them.
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it’s ok. luckily horner and helmet are such nice guys that the rest of the paddock will bend over backwards to help them.
 
Remember when the grass was the limits of the track? Might as well watch sim racing at this point. I skipped the race yesterday, watched gt4 at spa and couple of hours of 24 h of spa on youtube on Saturday and it's really telling how worse drivers in worse cars can result in actual racing while F1 became what it did. (This isn't a knock on any F1 driver, it's the organization).
 
Redplane said:
If I'm reading what I picked up from RBs comments on 26 correctly it seems very generally focused on three things:

aero will mean a lot less and pure engine power will once again be dominating the sport (and we know how that went before), the cars getting even heavier -not lighter, and even more of the engine power - up to 50% being pure battery power meaning recharging will become even more of a thing that it already has in the hybrid era.

The fact Max is jumping on that train now must mean he s seen the simulations. Rather than Toto and Horner getting into some kind of pissing match again, I would love to hear more about the new regs and whether there is some legitimate concern now that teams seemingly are getting an idea of what that time is going to look like. Raising issues with future regs a few years out seems a lot more kosher to me than complaining about regs we re a few seasons into now.
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Heavy, non aero dependent cars neutralise both of RBs massive current competitive advantages (Newey and Max wanting an aggressive pointy front end).

Add their powertrain problems and they could be in quite a bit of trouble for 2026.
 
Abizzz said:
Remember when the grass was the limits of the track? Might as well watch sim racing at this point. I skipped the race yesterday, watched gt4 at spa and couple of hours of 24 h of spa on youtube on Saturday and it's really telling how worse drivers in worse cars can result in actual racing while F1 became what it did. (This isn't a knock on any F1 driver, it's the organization).
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In fairness track limits has rarely been an issue anywhere other than Austria. Austrians in being knobheads shocker.
 
I see AM making new friends with this complain. Now all the teams will be waiting for AM to make a mistake.
 
Did Hamilton ever dominate like this? I always seem to remember he has at least his team mate as a rival, but usually always at least one other. Massa, Vettel, Rosberg etc have all ran him close or won titles. This Red Bull is so far ahead it's ridiculous.

Plus, the dominance is one thing, but I don't ever remember there being such a bad vibe around the pits. Red Bull the worst for the whining, despite the winning, and have been for many years. Made all the more bizarre when they have clearly benefited from some very favourable decisions recently, and then the whole budget thing, which was just a farce.

I know some people just like to race, but the smaller teams must be p!ssed off with what happens in the "top" teams. Or maybe they just ignore it since they aren't really challenging. If I ever do watch a race now it is only when one of the less fancied teams has done well in quali and looks like they have a chance to perform, when it is Red Bull or Mercedes dominance I just cannot bring myself to watch.
 
whitbyviking said:
Did Hamilton ever dominate like this? I always seem to remember he has at least his team mate as a rival, but usually always at least one other. Massa, Vettel, Rosberg etc have all ran him close or won titles. This Red Bull is so far ahead it's ridiculous.
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Did you forget the 5 years where Hamilton had Bottas as teammate who is now getting crushed by Zhou? Main difference was that Bottas was good in Q, so he could start from the front and ease his way the podium. While Perez is worse in Q and therefore have it less easy in races. Mercedes had the most dominant car ever by far for 8 years. Red Bull in on year 1.5 now so we have to wait another 6.5 season of this before its equal to what Hamilton and Mercedes in terms of cruising at the top!

If Bottas were in Max seat with Perez as teammate we might have 4-5 different drivers duking it out for the title this season.

We are at year 1,5 of this now and people are going crazy. Imagine at year 4, holy smokes!
 
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McGrathsipan said:
I can't watch it anymore.
Max is borderline likeable but he's got no competition. Boring. It's meant to be racing.
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Quite so.
And I am still surprised that the other teams have not yet understood how to make their cars close the massive gap to RB. because Max is obviously driving well within his and the car limits.
But the racing lower down the field is interesting.
 
Buster15 said:
Quite so.
And I am still surprised that the other teams have not yet understood how to make their cars close the massive gap to RB. because Max is obviously driving well within his and the car limits.
But the racing lower down the field is interesting.
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I think they understand but can’t get there without a new chassis, which they can’t afford under the cost cap.

If I were Mercedes/ Ferrari, Id be tempted to overspend, take a wind tunnel penalty and get a seasons worth of data on a winning concept like RB did.
 
Lightbringer said:
Did you forget the 5 years where Hamilton had Bottas as teammate who is now getting crushed by Zhou? Main difference was that Bottas was good in Q, so he could start from the front and ease his way the podium. While Perez is worse in Q and therefore have it less easy in races. Mercedes had the most dominant car ever by far for 8 years. Red Bull in on year 1.5 now so we have to wait another 6.5 season of this before its equal to what Hamilton and Mercedes in terms of cruising at the top!

If Bottas were in Max seat with Perez as teammate we might have 4-5 different drivers duking it out for the title this season.

We are at year 1,5 of this now and people are going crazy. Imagine at year 4, holy smokes!
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Hamilton dominated 2018, 19, 20, but only started from pole around half the time, making it slightly more palatable. Although still being pretty boring. Mercedes we’re also prone to a f**k up or two.

This season, you’ve got Max able to pull a second a lap on anyone on track and always clinch pole, a rocket ship DRS that make his passes inevitable so people barely even bother defending and RB are pretty flawless too.
 
whitbyviking said:
Did Hamilton ever dominate like this? I always seem to remember he has at least his team mate as a rival, but usually always at least one other. Massa, Vettel, Rosberg etc have all ran him close or won titles. This Red Bull is so far ahead it's ridiculous.

Plus, the dominance is one thing, but I don't ever remember there being such a bad vibe around the pits. Red Bull the worst for the whining, despite the winning, and have been for many years. Made all the more bizarre when they have clearly benefited from some very favourable decisions recently, and then the whole budget thing, which was just a farce.

I know some people just like to race, but the smaller teams must be p!ssed off with what happens in the "top" teams. Or maybe they just ignore it since they aren't really challenging. If I ever do watch a race now it is only when one of the less fancied teams has done well in quali and looks like they have a chance to perform, when it is Red Bull or Mercedes dominance I just cannot bring myself to watch.
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Yes and no, Mercedes created the illusion of a battle in say 19 and 20 but that was fairly easy for Hamilton. As a team they have never been anywhere near as slick as Red Bull and lost out some wins to strategy, "fairness", reliability etc.

I think the 2014 Merc was even more dominant than this RB, it's just they had two team mates that could battle and they very clearly pegged the car back to not be stopped, Bahrain 2014 was genuinely ludicrous when they both went full attack after the SC and gapped the field at like 2 seconds a lap.

The current RB in race mode won't be touched I don't think, not in Max's hands, Quali they can obviously be beaten but in the race they aren't even stretching its legs.

The sport yet again is a victim of it's own ruleset, budget caps, restricted development time and innovation, dominant team that teams probably won't catch until the regs change again in 2026. The sport is ironically just going around in circles every single era. In my opinion Max hasn't had a team mate that can genuinely match up since he's had a consistent race winning car, Ric was a really good yardstick at the time but the names since then, Gasly, Albon, Perez....let's be honest, that is mid table fodder for someone like Max. I would love to see him go genuinely toe to toe with someone, we all would.
 
Leg-End said:
Yes and no, Mercedes created the illusion of a battle in say 19 and 20 but that was fairly easy for Hamilton. As a team they have never been anywhere near as slick as Red Bull and lost out some wins to strategy, "fairness", reliability etc.

I think the 2014 Merc was even more dominant than this RB, it's just they had two team mates that could battle and they very clearly pegged the car back to not be stopped, Bahrain 2014 was genuinely ludicrous when they both went full attack after the SC and gapped the field at like 2 seconds a lap.

The current RB in race mode won't be touched I don't think, not in Max's hands, Quali they can obviously be beaten but in the race they aren't even stretching its legs.

The sport yet again is a victim of it's own ruleset, budget caps, restricted development time and innovation, dominant team that teams probably won't catch until the regs change again in 2026. The sport is ironically just going around in circles every single era. In my opinion Max hasn't had a team mate that can genuinely match up since he's had a consistent race winning car, Ric was a really good yardstick at the time but the names since then, Gasly, Albon, Perez....let's be honest, that is mid table fodder for someone like Max. I would love to see him go genuinely toe to toe with someone, we all would.
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Charles could do it last year, but the team was and still is a mess. Also Leclerc himself was erring under pressure at times, but either way he looked the most capable for going toe to toe with Max. Him and Max in one team would be mint.
 
The Firestarter said:
Charles could do it last year, but the team was and still is a mess. Also Leclerc himself was erring under pressure at times, but either way he looked the most capable for going toe to toe with Max. Him and Max in one team would be mint.
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Agreed, he would be my choice if anyone could do it.
 
Red Bull pit crew are really impressive as well. With Max coming in and the team reluctant to pit for fastest lap, not worth the risk with pressure of a mistake losing the race they calmly do a 2.3 second stop.
 
redshaw said:
Red Bull pit crew are really impressive as well. With Max coming in and the team reluctant to pit for fastest lap, not worth the risk with pressure of a mistake losing the race they calmly do a 2.3 second stop.
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You could totally see Ferrari putting a wrong tyre in such situation.
 
image.png


@rpitroda crushing it
 
whitbyviking said:
Did Hamilton ever dominate like this? I always seem to remember he has at least his team mate as a rival, but usually always at least one other. Massa, Vettel, Rosberg etc have all ran him close or won titles. This Red Bull is so far ahead it's ridiculous.

Plus, the dominance is one thing, but I don't ever remember there being such a bad vibe around the pits. Red Bull the worst for the whining, despite the winning, and have been for many years. Made all the more bizarre when they have clearly benefited from some very favourable decisions recently, and then the whole budget thing, which was just a farce.

I know some people just like to race, but the smaller teams must be p!ssed off with what happens in the "top" teams. Or maybe they just ignore it since they aren't really challenging. If I ever do watch a race now it is only when one of the less fancied teams has done well in quali and looks like they have a chance to perform, when it is Red Bull or Mercedes dominance I just cannot bring myself to watch.
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Atmosphere between the drivers and teams was probably never better, IMO, and smaller teams were probably never more competitive. We are half in the season, and just two drivers are without points, and those two are simply two worst drivers on the grid( and we didn't even have surprise rainy weekends when surprises happens and smaller team win points based on that). I am watching F1 for more than 20 years and I can't remember if the battles were ever more interesting for 2-10th place. I mean, Albon in Williams won points in Canada last weeks simply because he was racing well and his car was competitive, and not because everyone else crashed.

In 2020 Hamilton won the same race with just 7 other drivers in the same lap, and two drivers were 2 laps behind. His teammate finished 13 seconds behind, and Verstappen 33 seconds behind.

In 2017 Bottas won with just 6 drivers in the same lap.

In 2016 Hamilton won with just 8 drivers in the same lap.

So yeah, it's just your nostalgia for "better times" when Hamilton was winning.
 
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