F1 2021 Season

The red flag was unnecessary I agree. But it would be the best for 'Masi TV' so I'm really surprised Masi didn't go for it. The safety car was absolutely necessary to remove the broken down car and bits in a dangerous part of the track, but what annoys everybody is that only partial safety car rules were followed because of 'Masi TV'

If the race had to finish under the safety car, so be it. It isn't the first or last race that this will happen and Lewis deserved victory anyway.

If Masi wanted racing after a safety car he should have left the back markers where they were. Max is still racing Lewis for that one lap, the back markers were obliged to get out of his way ASAP, and Max already was very lucky to have a 13 sec lead cut down to just a few secs in the final lap.

What you absolutely cannot do (without bringing the sport into disrepute) is the '5 cars only' thing. Ridiculous.

Correct. What really annoys me about this is how people can't see the difference between this blatant manipulation and marginal calls that have gone one way or another throughout the season.

Whether you are a Max fan, a Lewis fan or a F1 fan, the worst thing that can happen is that deliberate manipulation occurs, and that is clearly and demonstrably what we got yesterday. Unprecedented tactics utilised to guarantee a certain result and a spectacle for the TV cameras.
 
Really great interview about yesterday's race.

You know what else is great about yesterday's race?

Lewis goes home knowing he is the true world champion of this year.
Max goes home knowing Lewis completely outraced him in the final races, and he wins only on a technicality and hoax, with questions over whether he is a false champion.
 
That's pretty damning for him.

It's basically going to come down to yes he was wrong to make that decision but as per the rules he's allowed to make wrong decisions.
I'm not sure that regulation 15.3 allows him to make wrong decisions. It looks like he can make certain judgement calls but only within the regulations.
 
Really great interview about yesterday's race.

On a different note, Paul Di Resta has many reasons, which we all know, to be anti Hamilton.

But to be so blinkered on this obvious hoax makes me wonder if he is also in bed with Red Bull. :lol:

Is he a test driver for anyone?
 
Protests

I don't think for a second we'll see any change to the race result. What I do think we'll see if Mercedes and the FIA come to some agreement financially and behind closed doors, to soften the blow of the decision making in those last laps. I believe Masi will be moved on to a different role, and Mercedes will play a card of loss of earnings by not being able to market them winning drivers championship. They've got deep pockets (as have their sponsors) and them bringing a QC to the last race probably gave the biggest indication that they thought the interpretation of the regulations would have tested to the limit given that the stakes were so high. I think the FIA know that they're prepared to take this all the way, and they would probably lose if challenged in a court so they will look to get to a quick resolution. The unfortunate outcome in all of this is F1's reputation is at an all time low.

I think people are quick to forget that this goes far, far deeper than who the fans want to win, or believe deserved to have won. There are tens of millions of pounds at stake in commercial revenues and prize money. There may be sponsors and suppliers with clauses in their contracts based on winning. Staff that may have been in-line to receive bonuses based on winning.

Sport is big business now, hence why CAS exists. I would be shocked if Masi's implementation/interpretation of the rules held-up in a Court of Law, even with his 'God-clause' get-out
 
I think people are quick to forget that this goes far, far deeper than who the fans want to win, or believe deserved to have won. There are tens of millions of pounds at stake in commercial revenues and prize money. There may be sponsors and suppliers with clauses in their contracts based on winning.

Sport is big business now, hence why CAS exists. I would be shocked if Masi's interpretation of the rules held-up in a Court of Law, even with his 'God-clause' get-out
This, literally. Stop with this feeling bad for Max nonsense if the result is changed. Either decision now is unfair to the opposition, as neither of them did anything wrong, it's Masi who has messed up and he's the sole person to blame. Had he followed the rules and not made up his own, Lewis would be the champion and therefore in the (slim) event the decision is changed, it is the correct call.
 
I think people are quick to forget that this goes far, far deeper than who the fans want to win, or believe deserved to have won. There are tens of millions of pounds at stake in commercial revenues and prize money. There may be sponsors and suppliers with clauses in their contracts based on winning. Staff that may have been in-line to receive bonuses based on winning.

Sport is big business now, hence why CAS exists. I would be shocked if Masi's implementation/interpretation of the rules held-up in a Court of Law, even with his 'God-clause' get-out

Which is the real thing Merc's lawyer will be doing right now. His case he builds isn't for Cas, it's for the FIA so they can squeeze as much out of them in compensation.

The FIA will have to pay, in both monetary and likely other ways for Merc to "do what's best for the sport" and keep this away from a big and very public arbitration.

Sad thing is, the best thing for the future of F1 and fairness would actually be CAS stepping in a slapping them silly. But then the FIA, and it seems a lot of fans (at least the fairweather Netflix ones) would rather it go more into the sports entertainment business. Hey ho.
 
I don't understand whats happening here. I don't know what angle the Max fans are coming from. Your guy won. He did nothing wrong.

But the way he won tarnished his win (not through his fault) and the rules were broken. Whats the argument here?
 
I don't understand whats happening here. I don't know what angle the Max fans are coming from. Your guy won. He did nothing wrong.

But the way he won tarnished his win (not through his fault) and the rules were broken. Whats the argument here?

They aren't content. They seem to want him to have been the plucky underdog in a shite car getting the ultimate win through grit and ability.

It melts their tiny little minds that the biggest cheat up in sports entertainment since the Montreal screwjob (one for the wwe fans there :lol:) handed Max the belt.
 
Yeah, I am sure Latifi is on it too the bastard. Wonder how deep it goes.
To be fair I'm just happy that a driver who was in Mercedes powered car crashed and not for example one if Alpha Tauri's. Imagine the outrage.
Mercedes fans would probably say that Mercedes and Lewis should leave FIA competitions all together and focus on cycling because it will improve Lewis's image as cycling is the greenest way of transportation.
 
To be honest I'm really only in this thread to get potential updates on Michael Masi.

If I'm to continue watching next year and believe in it, I need to know he is absolutely gone and disgraced.
 
I don't understand whats happening here. I don't know what angle the Max fans are coming from. Your guy won. He did nothing wrong.

But the way he won tarnished his win (not through his fault) and the rules were broken. Whats the argument here?
To be quite honest, there are some Max fans on here who are arguing it only because they don’t want there to be a mark against his win. That’s why you get arguments constantly from them about “RB also had decisions against them throughout the season” or “Max clearly had the slower car” or “win some lose some” or “FIA have favoured Mercedes with rule changes for years” or x y and z.

I wanted Hamilton to win, but if I’m trying to be as objective as I can, I would draw the key points that:

- Max has been very good throughout the year. Just because Masi stitched everyone up in the last race doesn’t mean his work over the season should be completely ignored. He is deserving on balance because he was right up there with Hamilton all year.
- Unfortunately that doesn’t change the fact that if the rules had been applied, or that he didn’t receive a significant amount of luck with the safety car happening in the first place, he would not be world champion.
- The key issue here is sporting integrity. New precedents were set outside of normal practice and potentially outside the rule book to create a last lap spectacle. This isn’t right. You don’t reset goals in a CL final if one team is winning it “bigly” just to create drama.
- Linking to the above, it’s fundamentally a flawed decision what he did. Forget Hamilton vs Max, why does Sainz for example not get a shot at 2nd or even 1st by being stuck behind lapped cars, but the same hinderance isn’t applied to Max who gets a free run? It’s inconsistency not only with rules and past precedent, but inconsistent treatment to different racers in the same race. I really feel this is significant because it completely against fair competition, which must be the overriding principal of sport. Every driver should have an equal chance to win a race, regardless of where they are in the standings or how much money their team has or how good their car is. That principal was fundamentally lost yesterday.
- If the safety car rules were followed properly, and that last lap existed in the rules, then yeah I’d be annoyed at the bad luck but that’s what it would be. Just bad luck. Legal (and perhaps rules should be considered if it’s really fair), and bad luck. I think then the complaint would be about the rules in the first place which sees leads wiped out by safety cars (whichever race, whichever cars impacted) than a breach of them. But you could only complain about that. Not the integrity of the result.
- If roles had reversed and Hamilton had won the title like this, of course I’d be happy but I wouldn’t (I think, like some fans on here) be in denial about what happened. That luck gave my man the title. And not just luck, unfair sports. Illegal sports. I’d accept that, and frankly whilst being happy I’d still be annoyed that the title was won that way and still have serious questions about the FIA.
- Masi needs to be removed. I can accept mistakes (and all fans on all sides have had to accept mistakes all year). But only to a limit. There has simply been far too many this year. Questionable decisions in Jeddah on penalties. Poor communication in Jeddah leading to the confusion and the brake test. Questionable decision yesterday when Hamilton kept the lead running wide. That’s just in the last 3 races. So that’s not acceptable. What’s also not acceptable at all, is rewriting rules and setting new precedent for entertainment.
 
To be honest I'm really only in this thread to get potential updates on Michael Masi.

If I'm to continue watching next year and believe in it, I need to know he is absolutely gone and disgraced.

we’re at a dangerous point here. i think we all need to take a step back and breathe. at the end of the day masi is a human being. a human being with feelings. a human being with emotions. a human being that can make mistakes. a human being with a family that his job likely supports. a human being with a family of equally spineless, worm like creatures that would leave their grandmother outside in the snow for christmas just to have something exciting to talk about over the festive period other than their utter contempt for each other. we’re in need of some perspective.
 
we’re at a dangerous point here. i think we all need to take a step back and breathe. at the end of the day masi is a human being. a human being with feelings. a human being with emotions. a human being that can make mistakes. a human being with a family that his job likely supports. a human being with a family of equally spineless, worm like creatures that would leave their grandmother outside in the snow for christmas just to have something exciting to talk about over the festive period other than their utter contempt for each other. we’re in need of some perspective.
:lol: Why’s it the grandmother who brings bad chat to the partay?
 
On a different note, Paul Di Resta has many reasons, which we all know, to be anti Hamilton.

But to be so blinkered on this obvious hoax makes me wonder if he is also in bed with Red Bull. :lol:

Is he a test driver for anyone?
He's currently test driver for Mclaren and used to race for Mercedes in DTM. I don't think he has any red bull allegiance but he certainly seems to be a bit on the "lets make a show of it" side.
 
Meh. F1 is as dirty as it comes anyway. I'll only bother watching any races if someone new comes in and challenges.
It is, but it’s usually fair. Fair doesn’t mean everyone gets the same amount of luck. But fair in how the rules are applied. Things like rules to nerf dominating cars, getting shafted by safety cars, red flags, or team orders - all lead to good luck and morally skeptical considerations but never unfair. If they change the regs, all teams have to still abide by them. If there is a safety car then one guy gets shafted this week but it could be the other next. This really was a new low yesterday. Manipulating the rules for drama is wholly unacceptable.
 
we’re at a dangerous point here. i think we all need to take a step back and breathe. at the end of the day masi is a human being. a human being with feelings. a human being with emotions. a human being that can make mistakes. a human being with a family that his job likely supports. a human being with a family of equally spineless, worm like creatures that would leave their grandmother outside in the snow for christmas just to have something exciting to talk about over the festive period other than their utter contempt for each other. we’re in need of some perspective.
:lol:
 
I wondered who of yourself and Jerch would first start this nonsense.
I'm not saying what happened was right or fair. I'm saying the rulebook is probably vague enough for Masi to get away with what he did. Don't believe for a second Mercedes would let this go "for the sake of F1". That's a load of crap.
 
I'm not saying what happened was right or fair. I'm saying the rulebook is probably vague enough for Masi to get away with what he did. Don't believe for a second Mercedes would let this go "for the sake of F1". That's a load of crap.

Then you don't understand any of the implications, or are very gullible. It's as simple as that.
 
It is, but it’s usually fair. Fair doesn’t mean everyone gets the same amount of luck. But fair in how the rules are applied. Things like rules to nerf dominating cars, getting shafted by safety cars, red flags, or team orders - all lead to good luck and morally skeptical considerations but never unfair. If they change the regs, all teams have to still abide by them. If there is a safety car then one guy gets shafted this week but it could be the other next. This really was a new low yesterday. Manipulating the rules for drama is wholly unacceptable.

See I always thought that was stupid. Great cars are just as memorable as great drivers in F1.

Rules that nerfed cars/engineering brilliance are always stupid in my opinion.
 
we’re at a dangerous point here. i think we all need to take a step back and breathe. at the end of the day masi is a human being. a human being with feelings. a human being with emotions. a human being that can make mistakes. a human being with a family that his job likely supports. a human being with a family of equally spineless, worm like creatures that would leave their grandmother outside in the snow for christmas just to have something exciting to talk about over the festive period other than their utter contempt for each other. we’re in need of some perspective.
Saint Masi?
 
Surely the decision going to court of some description would look that horrific for the sport it won't happen.

If they overturned it now it would probably be more farcical than what actually happened.
 
Then you don't understand any of the implications, or are very gullible. It's as simple as that.

mercedes are the bad guys. red bull are the good guys. there can be no other narrative. no other outcome.
 
I'm not saying what happened was right or fair. I'm saying the rulebook is probably vague enough for Masi to get away with what he did. Don't believe for a second Mercedes would let this go "for the sake of F1". That's a load of crap.
I agree, I'm not sure letting a sport get away with what happened yesterday is "for the good of the sport". There's a saying "light is the best disinfectant". If this gets swept under the carpet, everyone moves on, Masi is back next year and nothing really changes how can that be good for the sport. Either the FIA have to sort this out or someone has to force them to sort it out.

Imagine if Calciopoli had been discussed behind closed doors, swept away, all the clubs involved given a fine and everything carried on as before. That would have been the opposite of "good for the sport". Now to be clear, I'm not saying Masi was corrupt, i'm saying he was incompetant. The resultant action has to be the same though: clean it up.
 
Surely the decision going to court of some description would look that horrific for the sport it won't happen.

If they overturned it now it would probably be more farcical than what actually happened.
I don't think it'll happen, but how so? If it's overturned it would have to be on the basis that the race wasn't held to the regulations F1 gives itself... Hence correcting a made mistake.

If it does go to CAS I think that's the most likely outcome too. Max would keep his title but that race would be voided. However I think Mercedes has more to gain from wringing out concessions for not taking it there.