Which is why it's totally against precedent and why merc are going to appeal
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Christ.
I did think Masi went too far when he had Hamilton's family killed
Your posts are full of shit. They stink of inaccuracy and bias.
apparently when they killed his kid he squealed like a horner.
Wow, just wow. Took me until now, and tens of pages in this thread to read through, to write what I ultimately think of today. In terms of what I could have written, there are about 3 ways I was going to opionate this, but after all the drama I thought breaking it all down in factors made sense (probably too long so appreciate few people would read this):
WDC
Either driver being on the top wouldn't be undeserved, if you looked at the overall season. Remove the controversies that came through this season, you can't argue that Max 100% deserved it over Lewis, nor if it were the other way. Max was a superb driver and he contributed heavily to creating by far the best season of F1 in my lifetime. The duels were phenomenal at times between these two to the point they may as well have just stopped the cars and settled with fisticuffs. Were every corner overtake clean and justified from both sides? Hell no, Lewis had some dodgy moments, most notably silverstone, that makes neither 100% a saint. But this is a sport that drives the biggest winners to win at all costs, and Max brought out the Shumacher in him to win against Lewis at times when he couldnt do with clean racing. Hence why I believe he is easily like to reach Vettel's WC record at least.
Abu Dhabi race in general
This race for me in general was always going to be based on strategy and external factors, rather than the two drivers outright if I am honest. Although Max started P1, I was always certain Hamilton would lead the race after 10 laps. The 1st lap incident I was shocked he didnt give it back. If the communication was made by FIA to give it back, then it would have been given swiftly given the debacle in SA, and more cleanly as the track is far wider to do so.
After this, it was almost a procession. Mercedes were going to be faster overall and be able to keep them at bay, and so it was going to rely on a botch stop or a safety car or two to disrupt the norm. This season RB have been better at making the bold decisions on pit stop strategies during SC situations, and although the 1st one looked like it may work (VSC one which isnt quite the same), the 2nd one certainly did. If life was normal at the back of the track, with the drivers who are not fighting to be last just keep going and not get reckless, and absolutely nothing to fight for, this result would have obviously have been different. However this has happened many times before and cant pinpoint Latifi as the sole reason it happened. To me its a butterfly effect-situation.
FIA
To me, the real enemies for any Hamilton fans, or even neutrals that wanted a final to be finished purely on racing ability. I'm not sure where I can even begin with this because I am looking at this as if I was not a Hamilton fan and purely at how this was handled today.
There was a clear motive from the FIA to penalise Verstappen, were he to try and do any dirty work to take Hamilton out so as to cause a Senna/Schumacher-Style WDC. It was a good way of saying they wanted this finale to end in true racing style. They didnt want to face the endless drama of Hamilton and Verstappen crashing into each other in the first few laps (which nearly happened), and having to face the endless backlash afterwards.
What they have done in turn is openly questioned the integrity of F1 rules by how they handled those final laps. Not once have I ever seen only a handful of cars unlap themselves to allow the 2 lead cars to then race. It was a baffling decision to make not less than a lap after Masi was adamant the cars should not overlap. I do question the sudden decision making, of which was communicated to only a select amount of cars. I think the worst part of the communication was at these two key points (ad libbing a bit):
Masi to Horner: safety comes first
Masi to Wolff: we want modern racing
He basically changed his tune in th3 space of 5 minutes. If any poster does read my TDLR and pickpockets my reconstructed Masi statements, then I will bother to watch the clips again and quote exaclty what he said, but to me it felt like the heat of the moment in terms of making a proper decision, and they wanted the race to end as a "race" and didnt care which car had supposed advantage.
End of that long view from me, Max deserves the win, he put in a lot of cracking races and wins, and pushed Hamilton hard on the ones he didnt. In the future, if this sport is going to keep the fans as well as bring more in, it needs to sort out how its fecking ruled, as those last 5 laps felt the equivalent of a ref giving a red to a player, not sure what to do so lets the player stay on for 5 more minutes before agreeing hes off. Rules arent clear.
WDC
Either driver being on the top wouldn't be undeserved, if you looked at the overall season. Remove the controversies that came through this season, you can't argue that Max 100% deserved it over Lewis, nor if it were the other way. Max was a superb driver and he contributed heavily to creating by far the best season of F1 in my lifetime. The duels were phenomenal at times between these two to the point they may as well have just stopped the cars and settled with fisticuffs. Were every corner overtake clean and justified from both sides? Hell no, Lewis had some dodgy moments, most notably silverstone, that makes neither 100% a saint. But this is a sport that drives the biggest winners to win at all costs, and Max brought out the Shumacher in him to win against Lewis at times when he couldnt do with clean racing. Hence why I believe he is easily like to reach Vettel's WC record at least.
Abu Dhabi race in general
This race for me in general was always going to be based on strategy and external factors, rather than the two drivers outright if I am honest. Although Max started P1, I was always certain Hamilton would lead the race after 10 laps. The 1st lap incident I was shocked he didnt give it back. If the communication was made by FIA to give it back, then it would have been given swiftly given the debacle in SA, and more cleanly as the track is far wider to do so.
After this, it was almost a procession. Mercedes were going to be faster overall and be able to keep them at bay, and so it was going to rely on a botch stop or a safety car or two to disrupt the norm. This season RB have been better at making the bold decisions on pit stop strategies during SC situations, and although the 1st one looked like it may work (VSC one which isnt quite the same), the 2nd one certainly did. If life was normal at the back of the track, with the drivers who are not fighting to be last just keep going and not get reckless, and absolutely nothing to fight for, this result would have obviously have been different. However this has happened many times before and cant pinpoint Latifi as the sole reason it happened. To me its a butterfly effect-situation.
FIA
To me, the real enemies for any Hamilton fans, or even neutrals that wanted a final to be finished purely on racing ability. I'm not sure where I can even begin with this because I am looking at this as if I was not a Hamilton fan and purely at how this was handled today.
There was a clear motive from the FIA to penalise Verstappen, were he to try and do any dirty work to take Hamilton out so as to cause a Senna/Schumacher-Style WDC. It was a good way of saying they wanted this finale to end in true racing style. They didnt want to face the endless drama of Hamilton and Verstappen crashing into each other in the first few laps (which nearly happened), and having to face the endless backlash afterwards.
What they have done in turn is openly questioned the integrity of F1 rules by how they handled those final laps. Not once have I ever seen only a handful of cars unlap themselves to allow the 2 lead cars to then race. It was a baffling decision to make not less than a lap after Masi was adamant the cars should not overlap. I do question the sudden decision making, of which was communicated to only a select amount of cars. I think the worst part of the communication was at these two key points (ad libbing a bit):
Masi to Horner: safety comes first
Masi to Wolff: we want modern racing
He basically changed his tune in th3 space of 5 minutes. If any poster does read my TDLR and pickpockets my reconstructed Masi statements, then I will bother to watch the clips again and quote exaclty what he said, but to me it felt like the heat of the moment in terms of making a proper decision, and they wanted the race to end as a "race" and didnt care which car had supposed advantage.
End of that long view from me, Max deserves the win, he put in a lot of cracking races and wins, and pushed Hamilton hard on the ones he didnt. In the future, if this sport is going to keep the fans as well as bring more in, it needs to sort out how its fecking ruled, as those last 5 laps felt the equivalent of a ref giving a red to a player, not sure what to do so lets the player stay on for 5 more minutes before agreeing hes off. Rules arent clear.
This thread is a mess. So much polarisation for both guys. The last two races one won by Hamilton & one by Max have both had incredible drama but I don’t think it’s put the people running the sport & team bosses in good light . The off season is a good chance for f1 to work on this or it will lose all the great new goodwill the sport has gained
I know nothing about f1 rules
Please can someone explain in 3-4 sentences what the issue is?
Sorry I am a lazy so and so
Please can someone explain in 3-4 sentences what the issue is?
Sorry I am a lazy so and so
The communication was specifically "Lapped cars 4 (Norris) - 14 - 31 - 16 - 5 to overtake safety car". The other 3 were not permitted.
Great balanced post to end the thread with. Well done.
PS some of the Verstappen fans on here have been nothing short of embarrassing. Rather than say the situations favoured him massively, they went on to insult the Hamilton fans without any acknowledgment of what Hamilton did to try win, without any "dirty tactics" this time. A poster beginning with H instantly springs to mind.
Under a safety car, the rules state that either all cars unlap themselves or none do. Once all lapped cars have unlapped themselves and caught up, the safety car comes in at the end of the following lap.
On this occasion, they allowed a select few to go past the safety car so that max was right behind Lewis and the SC came in immediately
Thank you KD. I was ready to post straight after the race with outrage, as I felt that wasnt the best way to end the best season, but rather give it some time and let it all out in a more balanced view.
Glad someone spent the time to read it
If it was done like that and the 5 were specifically picked out to go with the other 3 not permitted then I really don`t see how anyone can argue it was anything other than giving a selected advantage to the 2nd placed car and obstacles were put in the way of 3rd place to prevent them racing and attacking 2nd.
Agreed - great post.
The counter argument might be that the other 3 were so far back, it would have taken them too long to overtake the safety car. Personally I feel that's a pretty weak argument as letting them all past is the only fair (and usually the normal!) way to handle this.
After a crash, there's a safety car to slow the others down whilst they clear the track.
When the safety car can go away and the race restart, cars that have been overlapped are told to regain position or keep current and it's never happened any other way.
In this race, with 2mins to go, the race director decided to change the rules and allow only 4 cars to do so, putting the 2 title contenders in a final lap race.
One of those contenders, having been well and truly beaten all race, happened to have fresh tires and was allowed an easy win.
Good post . I think no one can say that based on the whole season max is not a worthy champion but this crazy madness left a bad taste . Masi could have made it better by explaining his point of view rather than saying stupid shit like this is motor racing
The bar keeps getting lowered.
I'm unaware of a single race where this has happened before. I think this is a bizarre first.
Of course it is because as soon as the 5 were allowed to go Max got right on top of Lewis where had the other 3 been allowed to go as well then surely Sainz would have been all over Max too.
Just scrub the title out this year. Would be the fairest solution.
The irony of him saying that... it's anything but motor racing, it was engineered drama (with a pretty predictable outcome - but I'm trying my best to suppress any cynical thoughts!)
That is the reason he did it but it’s completely against the rules. There were two options as dictated by the rules - everyone unlaps themselves and the race ends under the safety car or nobody unlaps themselves and Hamilton wins. It’s an utter farce. Ferrari and Mclaren should have joined the protest.
I appreciate what played out was an absolute farce, but as a casual F1 viewer without any real allegiance to either Max or Lewis, that last lap was utterly exhilarating.
I didn’t find it exhilarating at all. It was inevitable max was going to pass. The only unknown was whether Lewis would try taking him out.
If they had the same tyres and had a standing start, it would been the mother of all exhilarating endings.
But no, that would have been a bit too fair for Michael Masi.
No, it was made up on the spot.
There won't be a title change or anything like that though, and probably rightly so as Max did nothing wrong. It'll likely be swept under the rug and Mercedes pretty much paid off to let it die down. There's no other outcome in this farcical world of F1.
Yep.
1) you let all the cars go - the likely outcome being the race finishes under SC and Lewis wins
2) you don't let any cars go - the same outcome.
They chose to go down a route (correct me if I'm wrong) I don't ever recall seeing in 20-odd years of watching F1 and 'engineer an exciting finish'.
It was but incredibly unfair.
Cheers buddy. Its silly to discredit for what Max has done; I genuinely think he has accomplished a racing feat greater than anyone over the past decade at least. He has overcome the most dominant team in the sport ever. We cannot take that away from him.
Has he done it in a purely sporting manner? Hell no. Rosberg didnt win his title on pure, clean racing.
Not only is Hamilton one of the best drivers on track, he simply had the best car all round. Max went above and beyond to get the title. Hes a winner.
I'm sure he wont ever see it this way, but many F1 hardcore fans wont see his finale race as a fully deserved title win because it was ruined by the FIA. If it was done on the track with no SC malarkey, then I dont see many Hamilton fans saying he didnt deserve it. This will be criticised for little while yet, then next March will be a clean slate and we will see how these new regulations (and hopefully new directors with some actual decisiveness) kicks in.
It’ll certainly rumble on I expect.. but I think the rules are vague enough for this not to come to anything. It’s a complete mess and tarnishes what has been the best season for a long long time
Why would Lewis try to take him out?
Because worst case neither finish - best case he comes off better and stays ahead. He was never keeping max behind him with no contact.