F1 2021 Season

VorZakone said:
By the way, what made Red Bull pit Verstappen again after Latifi's crash? I feel like I'm missing some game theory here. Verstappen 'could' have remained stuck behind the 5 other cars, right?
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Yeah Lewis team planned by the letter of the rules, those rules were bent and they removed only the five cars between them and so intentionally put Max on the tail of Hamilton on fresh tyres before letting them race the last lap.

Hamilton and his teams race plan in those past laps were totally undermined by the race director.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Should they though? F1 seems like pretty decent commercial value for the teams involved.


I mean, I'm sure they're sad, but in the end the heads of Mercedes like money more than they like Lewis Hamilton and I doubt Toto Wolff is the one making that call.
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Strategically though formula e I'd probably the place to be anyway and f1 can't go electric due to formula e having an exclusive licence for electric racing... so strategically now could be the time to draw a line ... almost certainly gonna happen in the next ten years anyway
 
sun_tzu said:
Strategically though formula e I'd probably the place to be anyway and f1 can't go electric due to formula e having an exclusive licence for electric racing... so strategically now could be the time to draw a line ... almost certainly gonna happen in the next ten years anyway
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they might be able to run an f1 car on the power generated by max fans huffing their own farts.
 
dinostar77 said:
Ola kallenius (ceo of damiler) has wanted to pull out for a while and have Mercedes go back to being an engine supplier only. Stuff like today may push them towards the exit or not.
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sun_tzu said:
Strategically though formula e I'd probably the place to be anyway and f1 can't go electric due to formula e having an exclusive licence for electric racing... so strategically now could be the time to draw a line ... almost certainly gonna happen in the next ten years anyway
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Ah I see, I guess the E part makes it more attractieve PR wise as well.
 
Mercedes beef is with FIA who also run Formula E so it makes no sense to jump to a new form of racing.

FOM would probably sue the crap out Mercedes anyway if they pulled out.
 
sun_tzu said:
Can't agree the new rule changes without merc and that would stop audi coming in

And merc supply 40% of the engines now

So yes 100% they could cripple f1 and jump.into formula e
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My driver lost so burn the whole thing down.

Nah, most of us (including Hamilton) are looking forward to next season
 
Lewis to Formula E makes so much sense for his brand image in the twilight of his career, and for the sport as well.
 
spiriticon said:
F1 changes its rules all the time when a champion is winning too much. It's in the history of the sport.

This is the first time they changed the rules in the middle of a race though, which I think crossed the line.

Max will win another 5 titles or so and then the tide will be against him. It's in the history.
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Well yeah - they deliberately nerfed Mercedes this year due to their dominance plus the party mode rule change last year. Thank God they did as it made a fantastic season. This decision wasn’t designed to feck Mercedes - that was just the byproduct - it was made to give a climatic end. The fact it was manufactured, against their own rules and total bollocks wasn’t considered at the time.
 
KirkDuyt said:
Should they though? F1 seems like pretty decent commercial value for the teams involved.


I mean, I'm sure they're sad, but in the end the heads of Mercedes like money more than they like Lewis Hamilton and I doubt Toto Wolff is the one making that call.
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Toto had to beg Daimler to stay in a few years back. If he gets disillusioned they are out.
 
hobbers said:
Not really, it has a fraction of the viewership of F1 and a tiny fraction of the gate receipts.

Going from F1 to Fe would be like United leaving the Premier League to join the Netherlands second division.
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But with Lewis and a fully invested Mercedes would it stay that way? I doubt it.
 
hobbers said:
Not really, it has a fraction of the viewership of F1 and a tiny fraction of the gate receipts.

Going from F1 to Fe would be like United leaving the Premier League to join the Netherlands second division.

Obviously as a side investment for big manufacturers it's a good thing to be involved in. But not at the expense of being in F1.
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The Keuken Kampioen division is fantastic and I won't have you shit on it!

I'd just enter both if I were Merc.
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
Haha they are insufferable aren’t they.
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i really don’t get it.

hobbers said:
Not really, it has a fraction of the viewership of F1 and a tiny fraction of the gate receipts.

Going from F1 to Fe would be like United leaving the Premier League to join the Netherlands second division.

Obviously as a side investment for big manufacturers it's a good thing to be involved in. But not at the expense of being in F1.
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yeah, it’s a numbers game and i don’t think they are walking away from money.
 
spiriticon said:
Lewis to Formula E makes so much sense for his brand image in the twilight of his career, and for the sport as well.
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Merc can spin this into a positive pr move and really hurt f1 with
1. Not approving riles on december15th
2. Pulling out if next season as a team
3.pulling out of supplying engines or supply a Honda level engine of a few years ago
4. Move into formula e with Hamilton and Russell and make a massive pr push about the co2 footprint of f1 being unsustainable
5.cas case showing f1 broke their own rules
 
Mickeza said:
Well yeah - they deliberately nerfed m Mercedes this year due to their dominance plus the party mode rule change last year. Thank God they did as it made a fantastic season. This decision wasn’t designed to feck Mercedes - that was just the byproduct - it was made to give a climatic end. The fact it was manufactured, against their own rules and total bollocks wasn’t considered at the time.
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Whatever the motivation was, there were a few fair options to end that race and Masi picked the one which disadvantaged Lewis the most. It's pretty obvious.

You want racing? Red Flag and let them sprint to the end from a standing start. It's unfair on Lewis as he built up a huge lead but hey, that I can accept as unfortunate.

But to pick THAT decision? Not for me thanks. And I say this with full respect to Max for his abilities through the season, even if I feel he was over the line a few times.
 
sewey89 said:
There are some diabolical posts in this thread. Max’s fans seem to still be angry despite him winning :lol:.

I’ve not seen any posts criticising Max for today, or for winning the WC, and rightly so. But some shouts of karma etc are just ridiculous.

It’s absolutely fair enough to be happy max won, to be happy Lewis didn’t, to think max deserved it etc.. But surely nobody can watch what happened in those last 5 laps and say without any doubt that it was absolutely fair. Masi decided that Max was going to win the WC. And that doesn’t sit right with me. I’d feel exactly the same if this was reversed by the way. Masi should go, but I don’t think Mercedes get anywhere with their appeal.
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Nah, it's the "British fans" and Hamilton fanboys who are the problem apparently. I might be wrong, but I've not seen a single post saying Max isn't a great champion or deserves it. Most of the posts, rightfully so too, are questioning how something like a last minute rule change could be allowed in a so-called "sport" to suit the cameras.

Some proper knuckle-dragging going on here, especially at the thought they would ever be classy themselves :lol:


hobbers said:
Not really, it has a fraction of the viewership of F1 and a tiny fraction of the gate receipts.

Going from F1 to Fe would be like United leaving the Premier League to join the Eredivisie.
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Fixed for you.
 
hobbers said:
If Mercedes tried to destroy F1 it would torpedo their brand image. Also worth noting the FIA govern Formula E as well, the idea Merc quitting Formula 1 out of spite to join a parallel competition overseen by the same body is hilarious.

Lewis going to Formula E after he retires from F1 would be a good move though, for him and for the sport.
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This is it.

No idea why people want them to jump to Formula E when it's still the FIA. The FIA are just as bad, if not actually worse than Fifa.
 
So Toto didn’t even speak to the media then I presume.

Also Formula E? Merc literally just pulled out of that.
 
hobbers said:
If Mercedes tried to destroy F1 it would torpedo their brand image. Also worth noting the FIA govern Formula E as well, the idea Merc quitting Formula 1 out of spite to join a parallel competition overseen by the same body is hilarious.

Lewis going to Formula E after he retires from F1 would be a good move though, for him and for the sport.
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If it’s true what others have said and the CEO has discussed it before (leaving F1 as a team), it’s not unimaginable to think it could happen at some point in the next few years. Saying it is one thing though.

If United lost the CL final because the ref changed the rules I wouldn’t want us to pull out, I’d want us to dominate it for the 10 years! If I was the Merc CEO I’d want to dominate F1 for the foreseeable now.
 
Redlambs said:
This is it.

No idea why people want them to jump to Formula E when it's still the FIA. The FIA are just as bad, if not actually worse than Fifa.
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The FIA are done with Hamilton as F1 champion though, that's why. It's obviously boring for them that Hamilton wins again. It's Max's turn to shine now.

However, with Hamilton as FE champion it would help them improve the visibility of the sport. Lewis gets tons of environmentally friendly plaudits. Win win win for all.
 
sewey89 said:
But surely nobody can watch what happened in those last 5 laps and say without any doubt that it was absolutely fair. Masi decided that Max was going to win the WC. And that doesn’t sit right with me. I’d feel exactly the same if this was reversed by the way. Masi should go, but I don’t think Mercedes get anywhere with their appeal.
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Totally agree with all of this.

Although if it goes to CAS it would be interesting.
 
spiriticon said:
The FIA are done with Hamilton as F1 champion though, that's why. It's obviously boring for them that Hamilton wins again. It's Max's turn to shine now.

However, with Hamilton as FE champion it would help them improve the visibility of the sport. Lewis gets tons of environmentally friendly plaudits. Win win win for all.
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That's Hamilton.

We were talking about Mercedes.
 
James Peril said:
Dumbest post in a while. Verstappen won’t care one single bit, he won the race with luck and a few months ago he punctured from a win - shit happens. Overall, he won the Championship over Hamilton. The latter has a faster car, you need luck to win. Let’s not put this on some referee put under huge stress, Verstappen won because Latifi crashed. Really difficult to see who is 12 and who is an adult in many of the posts above. What is incredibly certain is that the same people would flip upside down if Hamilton won today after Latifi crashed and Verstappen was screwed after leading.
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Awesome, thanks for the feedback.
 
Castia said:
It’s sport though you can’t just make it up as you go

Imagine watching a game of football and the ref had the same attitude ‘oh it would be much more exciting if I did x to spice things up‘

Absurd. Finishing behind the safety car in a race which he’s led and for the vast majority had a 13+ second lead Red Bull would have nothing to complain about.
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They'd have what happened in the first lap to complain about.
 
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Ollie Derbyshire said:
If it’s true what others have said and the CEO has discussed it before (leaving F1 as a team), it’s not unimaginable to think it could happen at some point in the next few years. Saying it is one thing though.

If United lost the CL final because the ref changed the rules I wouldn’t want us to pull out, I’d want us to dominate it for the 10 years! If I was the Merc CEO I’d want to dominate F1 for the foreseeable now.
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Mercedes have achieved all their objectives they set out to achieve when they became a works team. ICE is unfortunately a dead end short of synthetic fuels or hydrogen coming to the rescue. I dont think they will pull out anytime soon, but INEOS bought a large stake in Mercedes f1 at end of last season and the rumours are still there that if totto and hamilton bail then Damiler will sell up to INEOS entirely and leave F1.
 
ZIDANE said:
So Toto didn’t even speak to the media then I presume.

Also Formula E? Merc literally just pulled out of that.
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that would suggest they fully intend to go down the legal route.
 
Looks like Hobbers was wrong yet again...

All have the caveat that the race director can choose what to do "in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations". So not free reign.

"15.3 The clerk of the course shall work in permanent consultation with the Race Director. The Race
Director shall have overriding authority in the following matters and the clerk of the course may
give orders in respect of them only with his express agreement:
a) The control of practice and the race, adherence to the timetable and, if he deems it
necessary, the making of any proposal to the stewards to modify the timetable in
accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
b) The stopping of any car in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations.
c) The stopping of practice or suspension of the race in accordance with the Sporting
Regulations if he deems it unsafe to continue and ensuring that the correct restart
procedure is carried out.
d) The starting procedure.
e) The use of the safety car"
 
Ollie Derbyshire said:
If it’s true what others have said and the CEO has discussed it before (leaving F1 as a team), it’s not unimaginable to think it could happen at some point in the next few years. Saying it is one thing though.

If United lost the CL final because the ref changed the rules I wouldn’t want us to pull out, I’d want us to dominate it for the 10 years! If I was the Merc CEO I’d want to dominate F1 for the foreseeable now.
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Totally agree with all of this.

Although if it goes to CAS it would be interesting.
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Mercedes have probably already been sorted to not do either of these things.

No chance the FIA let this all change now and lose Mercedes nor allow CAS to change the outcome of this championship.


spiriticon said:
Hey it's a chance to develop their expertise on their electric engine! :lol:

Yeah I'm not sure about Mercedes, but for Hamilton it absolutely makes sense.
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They do both anyway. But yeah, for Hamilton. Though I reckon he has another season in F1 and gets plenty of decisions his way next year (what's new though!) before that.
 
Igor Drefljak said:
To be fair, the person who made that claim also says this result is because Hamilton is black and wears a rainbow helmet...
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my old ham’s a hamilton,
he wears a rainbow hat,
when he’s winning races
masi says “i can’t have that”
 
Redlambs said:
Mercedes have probably already been sorted to not do either of these things.

No chance the FIA let this all change now and lose Mercedes nor allow CAS to change the outcome of this championship.




They do both anyway. But yeah, for Hamilton. Though I reckon he has another season in F1 and gets plenty of decisions his way next year (what's new though!) before that.
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CAS are independent of FIA. They are independent of UEFA or FIFA etc. If they make a ruling, that's pretty much golden.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Looks like Hobbers was wrong yet again...

All have the caveat that the race director can choose what to do "in accordance with the Code or Sporting Regulations". So not free reign.
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Since apparently you can't read, parts d and e expressly do not have that caveat. They are (probably deliberately) vague.

You can clutch onto whatever you want, but don't be too surprised and upset if the CAS turn away any Merc appeal.
 
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