F1 2021 Season

From May 2021. Spanish GP. Christian Horner.

"Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well,” said Horner after the Spanish GP. “He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence,” he added."

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-says-his-drivers.2lU7c1wC1oSYZOMLMy9ijd.html
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
From May 2021. Spanish GP. Christian Horner.

"Turn 1 was mega. I mean Max, that was full Max Verstappen – he was just going for it – and he positioned the car fantastically well,” said Horner after the Spanish GP. “He tucked in, he got a little bit of a tow and a bit of momentum. And yeah he just braked later and ran the car wide. Thankfully Lewis had got out of it because otherwise he would have ended up in the fence,” he added."

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...-says-his-drivers.2lU7c1wC1oSYZOMLMy9ijd.html
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Horner is an idiot but its obvious hes going to be biased
 
It was their Senna and Prost moment. Verstappen knew he would be squeezing Hamilton, Hamilton knew the gap was going to disappear, and neither of them was going to back out the way a lesser driver would. They were testing each other and got too close.

It probably was a penalty simply because Hamilton ran wide and it's not possible to know if that was intentional or not. Not much in it though. In football terms giving/not giving a penalty would not be a clear and obvious error.
 
rpitroda said:
Horner is a dick head. I don’t think that’s up for debate. Even Max fans would acknowledge that!
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nah. they’re too busy with their fantasies of turning up in milton keynes and being greeted by horner and max in togas. a procession of rb staff walk by them, whipping them with palm leaves. tiki flames lick at them as they are ushered into one of the marketing suites at rb f1 hq. max silently gestures for them to sit on the floor. they gladly comply. max and horner slide their togas to one side and begin pissing on them. their golden arches of salvation splashing against their grateful faces. they come to at their desk at work, confused co-workers look on in horror “why were you chanting “max horn, max horn” and why have you pissed yourself?”

“it‘s rb racing, you wouldn’t understand.”
 
hobbers said:
In a thread full of ignorant rabid fanboys I do, yeh. That's what being a fan of racing rather than of one particularly driver or team gets you.

Since you apparently don't know, Aston Martin are a satellite team for all intents and purposes. As far as F1 politics goes they are Mercedes.
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You're exactly the kind of rabid fan boy you're calling out, at least in an anti Hamilton sense, and yet try to call yourself "a fan of racing over one team". It's hilarious.

At least the other "fanboys" you point out in the thread are honest enough to admit their bias.
 
Add to that the comments from Horner about Albon’s penalty at Silverstone last year. Different corner and different speeds of course, but the move is effectively the same.
 
mariachi-19 said:
it should have been a 10 second stop and go, not a 10 second penalty.

This “let’s just add seconds to their race” is horse shit, especially if you drive a red bull or Mercedes as those cars are more often than not, nearly one second per lap faster than the next fastest car.

If you decide that Lewis is at fault and therefore destroying Max’s race, his race should be heavily affected as well. A 10 second penalty does not accurately reflect the overall damage the incident caused.

I do wonder if social factors (especially considering last week) didn’t play on the mind of the Stewards in determining the severity of the penalty?

If we look back over time Schumacher got similarly fecked over at Silverstone 94 which inevitably assisted Damon Hill into putting an undeserved title fight together.
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It isn't supposed to, you penalise the incident, not the outcome.

It's the job of the stewards to coldly apply the rules and to ignore whatever happened outside of the incident (crashes, explosions, etc).

It's the same in football, if a player commits a foul, the punishment isn't decided by how badly injured the opposition is, its decided by the actions of the player.
 
Would be nice to see Red Bull/Horner and Verstappen put out a statement on the racist abuse Hamilton has faced...
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Poor response from Max. He is young, he is hot headed and his management team at Red Bull are not setting a good example
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They definitely seem to enable his more childish tendencies, doesn't help when you have Horner setting the example for the entire team with his embarrassing interview after the race.

Max really needs some tough love to force him to grow up a bit, a bit like Lewis was forced to do, but he won't get anything other than smoke blown up his backside at RB.
 
The Hilton said:
They definitely seem to enable his more childish tendencies, doesn't help when you have Horner setting the example for the entire team with his embarrassing interview after the race.

Max really needs some tough love to force him to grow up a bit, a bit like Lewis was forced to do, but he won't get anything other than smoke blown up his backside at RB.
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And also the team owner saying Hamilton should be banned from the next race. Ridiculous group of entitled idiots.
 
slyadams said:
Max lost that race in part because he made a poor decision. There’s been 9 or 10 incidents like this so far this season, including a few yesterday, and the first time Max is in that position they crash. I’m confident (and therefore I can state this as fact) that if Lewis was in Max’s position they wouldn’t have contacted. Max’s inexperience cost him today.
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Given the fact that Hamilton has been involved in more collisions than Verstappen in the last 2 years, your claim is truly baseless.

All this talk about what a dirty driver Verstappen is, and yet Hamilton is the one collecting penalties and penalty points. Amazing cognitive dissonance.
 
Leclerc continues to show is one of the best drivers in F1. Hamilton very fortunate to KO his rival and come away with 33 points. Good drive from him though.
 
Infordin said:
Given the fact that Hamilton has been involved in more collisions than Verstappen in the last 2 years, your claim is truly baseless.

All this talk about what a dirty driver Verstappen is, and yet Hamilton is the one collecting penalties and penalty points. Amazing cognitive dissonance.
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Why 2 years? And where are you getting your collision stats from? Can you share.

Looking here at retirements, so not exclusively collisions, Max is at 21.7%, Lewis is 9%.
https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-drivers/max-verstappen-information-statistics/
 
rpitroda said:
I’m sorry but within this race alone Hamilton overtook Norris and Le Clerc into that corner. So I fundamentally disagree with your argument.

Also, what if Verstappen hadn’t given Hamilton space? And just turned in on him? Would Hamilton still be responsible?

I have said in this thread many times, I can understand Hamilton’s penalty. Not because he was slightly behind. Not because he “shouldn’t have been there”. But because his mistake was he missed the apex of the corner. He didn’t mean to, it wasn’t malicious. But a
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Fluctuation0161 said:
Sums it up nicely. This should draw a line and answer the question.



It won't though.
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This really should be the end of all this debate. Everyone here has an opinion, most with bias and all of us have not raced close to this level. Two current drivers one ex double champion and one future one both said racing incident.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Why 2 years? And where are you getting your collision stats from? Can you share.

Looking here at retirements, so not exclusively collisions, Max is at 21.7%, Lewis is 9%.
https://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-drivers/max-verstappen-information-statistics/
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I am talking about penalty points.

Verstappen has been on 0 for the last 2 years now.

Hamilton, in the meantime, has collected 12 penalty points. He has 4 right now and about 8 have expired in the last few months.

Collision stats don’t mean anything. They don’t tell you which driver was at fault, nor do they count collisions that did not result in retirement.
 
Infordin said:
Given the fact that Hamilton has been involved in more collisions than Verstappen in the last 2 years, your claim is truly baseless.

All this talk about what a dirty driver Verstappen is, and yet Hamilton is the one collecting penalties and penalty points. Amazing cognitive dissonance.
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What total rubbish. Spanish GP turn 1:



Max takes that turn at a speed where he cannot hold his line, he runs wide and Lewis backs out to avoid the crash. If the positions were reversed there there's another shunt. I'm not saying that should have been a penalty, I'm saying Max is famous for his aggression in both attack and defense, this time is came back and bit him and and now he's complaining.

Missed Apex said this best: this was a crash both drivers consented to.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
And also the team owner saying Hamilton should be banned from the next race. Ridiculous group of entitled idiots.
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Yeah and it's gonna negatively impact Max in the long run, he's gonna get more and more spoiled and entitled which won't serve him well in title challenges.
 
slyadams said:
What total rubbish. Spanish GP turn 1:



Max takes that turn at a speed where he cannot hold his line, he runs wide and Lewis backs out to avoid the crash. If the positions were reversed there there's another shunt. I'm not saying that should have been a penalty, I'm saying Max is famous for his aggression in both attack and defense, this time is came back and bit him and and now he's complaining.

Missed Apex said this best: this was a crash both drivers consented to.
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Nothing wrong with that Spain move. It was an aggressive late on the brakes maneuver, but he got it done cleanly and was ahead on corner exit.

Hamilton hit Verstappen from behind, totally different scenario.
 
Infordin said:
Nothing wrong with that Spain move. It was an aggressive late on the brakes maneuver, but he got it done cleanly and was ahead on corner exit.

Hamilton hit Verstappen from behind, totally different scenario.
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Because you want it to be. Max was ahead BECAUSE Lewis backed out to avoid a crash as Max had gone in too hot.
 
mariachi-19 said:
it should have been a 10 second stop and go, not a 10 second penalty.

This “let’s just add seconds to their race” is horse shit, especially if you drive a red bull or Mercedes as those cars are more often than not, nearly one second per lap faster than the next fastest car.

If you decide that Lewis is at fault and therefore destroying Max’s race, his race should be heavily affected as well. A 10 second penalty does not accurately reflect the overall damage the incident caused.

I do wonder if social factors (especially considering last week) didn’t play on the mind of the Stewards in determining the severity of the penalty?

If we look back over time Schumacher got similarly fecked over at Silverstone 94 which inevitably assisted Damon Hill into putting an undeserved title fight together.
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What do you mean?
 
Infordin said:
I am talking about penalty points.

Verstappen has been on 0 for the last 2 years now.

Hamilton, in the meantime, has collected 12 penalty points. He has 4 right now and about 8 have expired in the last few months.

Collision stats don’t mean anything. They don’t tell you which driver was at fault, nor do they count collisions that did not result in retirement.
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Strange choice of time frame. Why choose 2 years? If we look at the current state. Hamilton is currently one of the drivers with the least amount of penalty points on 2.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...what-did-they-get.3rFAlHELKARrdjzveVONuC.html
 
mariachi-19 said:
it should have been a 10 second stop and go, not a 10 second penalty.

This “let’s just add seconds to their race” is horse shit, especially if you drive a red bull or Mercedes as those cars are more often than not, nearly one second per lap faster than the next fastest car.

If you decide that Lewis is at fault and therefore destroying Max’s race, his race should be heavily affected as well. A 10 second penalty does not accurately reflect the overall damage the incident caused.

I do wonder if social factors (especially considering last week) didn’t play on the mind of the Stewards in determining the severity of the penalty?

If we look back over time Schumacher got similarly fecked over at Silverstone 94 which inevitably assisted Damon Hill into putting an undeserved title fight together.
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You wonder do you? What exactly are you wondering?
 
The Hilton said:
Yeah and it's gonna negatively impact Max in the long run, he's gonna get more and more spoiled and entitled which won't serve him well in title challenges.
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He is going to cause much more dangerous collisions than yesterday if he is not managed correctly. Not blaming him for yesterday but he did contribute. He has form over the last few years.

Ask Raikonnen (Spa move was dangerous) or Vettel.
 
For my tuppence Hamilton overcooked the corner, was good value for his penalty and drove a fantastic race to claw back the victory. Similar could've happened in Spain with roles reversed though.
 
mariachi-19 said:
That they don’t want another mass riot on their hands with looting like your deranged fans carried on with at Wembley because they didn’t get their own way.
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The Wembley aggro was caused by ticketless fans trying to storm into the stadium. To suggest that has any relevance to the stewards' decision yesterday is a new low even for this thread.
 
Two of the most respected drivers on the grid;

Leclerc: "It is a racing incident. It is quite difficult to put the blame on one or the other. There was space on the inside. Maybe Lewis was not completely at the apex but it is also true Max was quite aggressive on the outside. Things happen. The most important today is Max is unharmed and is fine."

Alonso: "Lewis had more than half a car alongside Max, so in a way Lewis could not disappear from that inside line. You can't vanish. So it was an unfortunate moment but nothing intentional and nothing that any of the two drivers did wrong."
 
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