European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .
If Fifa stick to the statement that any player who is in this can't play for their country its dead before it starts,

Yes, money is important, but missing out on world cups and so on, will have a major effect.
 
The fact that UEFA , FIFA, Premier league, FA and all these other football institutes are trying to take the morale high ground is nauseating,

Trying to use the greater good of football as a way to show why this is terrible whereby in reality they are just shit scared at the prospect of money being taken out of there fat pockets and but into someone else’s,

I am 100% against this btw and think it’s a travesty but it’s a bloody joke that these proven corrupt corporations are pretending like they haven’t been doing the same things for years, footballs principles and foundations died a long time ago and as usual the fans will pay the price for this greed.
 
Salus Populi Suprema Lex said:
It's Bayern, Dortmund and PSG who declined to get involved.
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For now....?

If this goes ahead and works, they've already said they'll invite teams. What's to stop them inviting a few teams each year and changing the format and ending up with a league system, just a European one (with founder members obviously exempt... you've got to have some perks for being one of the Judas 12).

That could end up with leagues (The Euro All-stars and the Euro Challengers). Could have one up, one down (caveated by original ones being exempt).

Sounds awful.



The Glazers will probably do it
 
dinostar77 said:
There are no consequences, there is no relegation. There is continuous membership forever. You don't have to earn anything.
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Exactly, that is what I was getting at. The relegation battles are riveting stuff, the Championship playoff are riveting. Instead if you aren't in the playoffs you might as well just give up.
 
Brightonian said:
Jesus, if you wanted a pat on the back because Manchester United has achieved things in the past I'm sure they could have come up with some kind of lifetime achievement trophy. Competitions have value because you have to win games to get into them and you have to win games to stay in them. Life is no fun if everything just gets handed to you on a plate.
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The entitlement in his posts is something else. Let's throw out at all forms of meritocracy and competitiveness principles to please these 15 founding clubs, shall we? :lol:
 
Mickeza said:
What? So fans around the world watch United play Burnley but won’t watch United against Madrid because they played Barcelona 4 weeks earlier and we can’t possibly watch another big game. There’s so much potentially wrong with the ESL but the idea it isn’t going to be watched is shite.
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When Inter have finished bottom of this crap League 3 seasons in a row and are still in it then no, I don't think fans will really give a shit when United-Inter rolls around. These fixtures will not continue to have the same appeal as they do now with no relegation, with poor teams always having a spot. You'll have a couple of teams that excel and the rest of the games will be making up the numbers and have no real consequence to them.
 
Adisa said:
It's a glorified friendly.
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From what I understand so far, this is what seems like the biggest issue.

Football does need a shakeup. An elite league competition does sound interesting.

However, having these 12(15?) Teams be there every year as founders with no risk of failing to qualify makes the whole thing sound like a bunch of friendlies.

How do you keep the desire to do well alive? What happens to the point of competition in domestic leagues?
 
balaks said:
It's possible they won't be - would you still be happy then?
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We all know that won't happen. FIFA and the EPL will lose more than half their money if United, Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool and Shitty will be kicked out.

There are other worries that I didn't think of:
- after a while, yeah, it gets kinda tiring seeing the same teams playing against each other (let's be honest, it's the same with the UCL) -- if they'll come up with some invitation system to also have a few small and medium sized clubs in there, it won't be that bad
- it should spread for quite a large period during the season because it will be quite awkward for fans to choose what game they watch if you have 3-4 of them in the same time (same issue the UCL now has)

In terms of morals, the big clubs organizing the ESL is the same shit as Uefa organizing the UCL, just that people are too reluctant to change, which is strange, considering the times we live in.
People need to sometimes just realize that UEFA pockets 500-600 mil yearly only from the Champions League. Of course any smart club owner would want UEFA to earn less or him to take it all.

I really don't know why people are surprised by such a proposition. We live in an age where even the most simple thing like taking a photo has been monetized.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
If Fifa stick to the statement that any player who is in this can't play for their country its dead before it starts,

Yes, money is important, but missing out on world cups and so on, will have a major effect.
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I personally think that but what if the new generation of players want the money over the international caps?

It's always been huge in our lifetimes bit ten years from now, what if the games in the shitwank ESL are what kids dream of?
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
For now....?

If this goes ahead and works, they've already said they'll invite teams. What's to stop them inviting a few teams each year and changing the format and ending up with a league system, just a European one (with founder members obviously exempt... you've got to have some perks for being one of the Judas 12).

That could end up with leagues (The Euro All-stars and the Euro Challengers). Could have one up, one down (caveated by original ones being exempt).

Sounds awful.



The Glazers will probably do it
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They will have an All Star game like the US sports. Can definitely see that.
 
Ixion said:
Because it's not every week. You might have a "big" game every 4-6 weeks at the moment. If it is literally every single week it will burn out, interest won't be as high, fans won't care about missing one.
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This is like saying Mr. Spock is better off than Captain Kirk because he has sex every 7 years (I'm not a Trekkie, so I forget the exact time span) while Kirk gets it on the regular.
 
crossy1686 said:
When the dust settles we'll have some requirement at some point. Like I said previously, if for some reason Southampton go on to become one of the most successful and most viewed PL teams over the next few years, you think they won't be extended an invitation?
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What makes you think this? Why would they not disclose right now that such a thing can happen from a PR perspective? So far there is 0 indication of this potentially happening.
 
Brightonian said:
Jesus, if you wanted a pat on the back because Manchester United has achieved things in the past I'm sure they could have come up with some kind of lifetime achievement trophy. Competitions have value because you have to win games to get into them and you have to win games to stay in them. Life is no fun if everything just gets handed to you on a plate.
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No, competitions have value because people want to win them, not because they're scared of not playing in them.
 
crossy1686 said:
Football hasn't been equal for decades, and if any of those clubs were going to become elite, they would have done so already. The CL has been going for decades, guess who keeps winning it?
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Pretty sure it's not Spurs, City and Arsenal.
 
I envisage these types of games will become pay per view world event where regular punters are completely priced out. They'll probably take it on the road as well playing in huge stadiums around the world.
The top sides in europe are basically now saying we've grown to big for simple domestic football. We're now global brands with a global market to try and appease.
 
This is going to end up being a league comprised of us, the soon-to-be Tampa Bay Bucaneers Soccer Sledgehammers, our new Aussie partner, and Spurs isn't it.
 
T
Tom Cato said:
It does happen. In the sense that clubs must qualify for the tournament to be eligible to actually enter. Today Arsenal and Tottenham have a god given right to participate every year despite league performance.

If the big money and prestige is in the Super League, it will affect the priority of the domestic league as a product. There are so many games with the suggested 10 team divisions + cup play that there won't be space for the domestic cups on top of the domestic league.

Financial disparities between the "big 12" and the leagues will be enormous.

It's not as simple as one competition replacing another.

This replaces tradition and a mode of competition through qualification that we've been used to since the inception of the game.

The truly upsetting thing is that no one asked for this. The fans didn't ask for this, and literally every official supporter group of the club has come out AGAINST this, strongly.

The driving forces behind this project are the American club owners that are introducing a American style of cup competition similar to the Stanley Cup and NBA playoffs.

Removing merit from competition ultimately renders the competition hollow.

Theatre of Dreams, just not the fan's dreams.
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Thats a very localised argument to England and the competitiveness for CL places though. The vast majority of the sides involved are more or less guarenteed CL football every year due to the hold they have over their leagues.
Is it a bad thing if Bayern does leave Germany, for example? Why is their hold over German football less dangerous than this?
Im in a weird spot, I dont want to see this happen but we are in a world that has the prime minister try to circumvent PL judgment and laws by handing Newcastle over to Saudi Arabia. With City being the financial monster that it is, we are basically living the Super league dooms day scenario. Our league is only kept alive by a top 4 race unless a non oil rival can suddenly reach 100 points seasons.
 
vidic blood & sand said:
I envisage these types of games will become pay per view world event where regular punters are completely priced out. They'll probably take it on the road as well playing in huge stadiums around the world.
The top sides in europe are basically now saying we've grown to big for simple domestic football. We're now global brands with a global market to try and appease.
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This is probably behind Sky's outrage. Any rights will surely go to Amazon/something similar.
 
Of all the founding members who should hang their head in shame, MUFC and Liverpool are certainly up there. Chelsea, City, I can understand. Inter and Milan are broke. Real Madrid and Barcelona have debts piling up.

MUFC and Liverpool have the PL's worldwide exposure and plenty of improvement needed to win the Champions League.

The current framework is good enough and the Superleague brings little added value as it stands. You lose the PL's local feeling of derbies played against neghbouring clubs. You also lose the UCL's elite feeling of being there only when you beat domestic competition.
 
VorZakone said:
What makes you think this? Why would they not disclose right now that such a thing can happen from a PR perspective? So far there is 0 indication of this potentially happening.
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The SL is basically founded on the premise that if you have a global following then you're entitled to play in a competition that taps into global funds. The more well followed the teams are in the competition, the wider reach the interest in the competition and therefore the more successful it becomes. It wouldn't last very long if the teams in it weren't hugely popular, and that also works for teams not in it
 


4 of these founder clubs have won 0 CL/European cups :lol:
 
VorZakone said:
You seem to be completely missing the point. These 15 clubs should not get to decide they're above the rest.

It is fundamentally unfair to all other clubs.
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I haven't missed the point at all. Champions league and Europa League would still exist and the likes of Everton and Southampton would actually qualify for that, at least some what regularly.

Those clubs would actually get European games. You may look down on the quality but that's a seperate point.

Everton vs Dortmund
West Ham vs Roma
Southampton vs Ajax

You telling me the fans of those clubs would boycott that because they've don't qualify for a different competition? Would they not receive more TV money and gate revenue as a result? Even if its less than what the cl currently pays, it's still more than those clubs currently recieve, is it not?

They may not play in the super league, but they will actually be playing European competition, with far, far more regularity than they ever have a chance to currently.

When did Everton last play in Europe? How many European nights has Goodison seen in the last 20 years? What if Everton now play in the champions league for 3 out of the next 4 years?
 
Might help German, Spanish and Italian football because their teams will get more coverage and thus the might be able to generate more income from an increased support. Can"t see how it will help the English clubs who have great global support and huge income already. The whole thing feels a bit American. I hope the ESL plans get squashed.
 
BeforeKeanetherewasRobson said:
For now....?

If this goes ahead and works, they've already said they'll invite teams. What's to stop them inviting a few teams each year and changing the format and ending up with a league system, just a European one (with founder members obviously exempt... you've got to have some perks for being one of the Judas 12).

That could end up with leagues (The Euro All-stars and the Euro Challengers). Could have one up, one down (caveated by original ones being exempt).

Sounds awful.



The Glazers will probably do it
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German clubs unlike us have fans that hold 51% stake in their clubs. This is the way it should be.
 
Nani Nana said:
Of all the founding members who should hang their head in shame, MUFC and Liverpool are certainly up there.

Chelsea, City, I can understand. Inter and Milan are broke. Real Madrid and Barcelona have debts piling up.
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Liverpool have lost a feck tonne of money over the pandemic and United fans wanted the Saudi Royal family to take over last year so we could be state owned rich and compete. That wasn't a problem but this is?
 
When Inter are 10th playing Arsenal in 12th, with neither team able to be relegated, both coasting in their domestic leagues because it doesn't matter, the games will be completely meaningless. No one will flood to watch that just because its Inter Milan vs Arsenal. It will be a completely nothing affair. Games against the biggest teams usually have something important on the line, this will ensure you get a bunch of pointless games and that is how you devalue something.
 
At the end of the day cash is king.

UEFA have diluted the champions league by being greedy fecks over the years and adding more crap teams just for more revenue.

I want to watch the elite play the elite, not watch filler games that include the dross of Lokomotiv Moscow, Olypiakos, Atlanta, Midjyland, Krasnodar, Rennes, Ferencvarosi (no offense). The champs league only gets going in the knockout stage and even then, there can be some dross left over.

This new league is exactly the elite level of teams I want to see play each other frequently, so I believe its a positive change!

Even if they broke away from the PL I would support it, I would rather watch United play any of the teams in the elite league than United vs Burnley (for example).

I know you guys have a massive passion for football in general and I understand your arguments, but for me football will be more entertaining with these changes.

As for the damage it will cause... what do you think the premier leagues formation did to the football league all those years ago... things change!

<3
 
devilish said:
The difference is that while very few know that Burnley exist Inter and Milan has huge fan bases. Inter has 55m and Milan has 95m. A game between Manchester United and Milan would attract thousands of fans world wide something both clubs would benefit from. They won't be piggy banking on our popularity to attract the ££££ needed for their club to thrive/survive.

I understand and in certain ways I share your concerns/anger. However I am also trying to see the other POV as well. When I started following United, the EPL was nowhere near as being the best league in the world. However it was certainly entertaining. Smaller sides would throw caution by the wind and play attractive football to keep football entertaining. By doing so they kept their side of the bargain. Can you say the same now? All these teams care about is that extra point needed to remain in the EPL or making it in the Europa league so that they can keep on piggybanking on the money the big guns generate. So if these clubs can be allowed to be greedy then what's so tragic in us doing the same?
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I'm not really buying it. Every league will have the same dynamic between the best and the rest. And the more money involved, the better the top teams will become, and the more likely the chances will be of teams playing defensive football in order to eek out points.

Let's fast forward 5 years. For argument's sake, City and Barcelona have dominated the league. Meanwhile, the likes of Arsenal and Spurs are struggling and "piggybanking on the money the big guns generate". All they care about is staying in the superleague. So what do we do then? Get rid of half the league that aren't contributing much and stinking the place out with their defensive style of play. Now we are left with 8 teams. And so on, the cycle never ends.

If we diagnose the problem here - lack of competitiveness within domestic leagues - it has actually gotten worse as the elite clubs have become richer. When you started watching the EPL in the 1990s, teams did not need 90-100 points to win the title. Teams had a go because the gap between them was not as wide. So the solution is to make that gap less wide, not make it as wide as possible through a separate superleague.
 
Ixion said:
When Inter are 10th playing Arsenal in 12th, with neither team able to be relegated, both coasting in their domestic leagues because it doesn't matter, the games will be completely meaningless. No one will flood to watch that just because its Inter Milan vs Arsenal. It will be a completely nothing affair. Games against the biggest teams usually have something important on the line, this will ensure you get a bunch of pointless games and that is how you devalue something.
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What's the basis for this happening? Because you want it to be true? Why would the players and manager not want to win the league anymore? Why doesn't this happen when teams qualify for the CL now? Where is this complete reduction of ambition coming from?
 
crossy1686 said:
Liverpool have lost a feck tonne of money over the pandemic and United fans wanted the Saudi Royal family to take over last year so we could be state owned rich and compete. That wasn't a problem but this is?
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Every single club lost money during the pandemic. The Superleague is twelve clubs taking money off the other clubs.
 
Will this go every single week or be similar to the CL and have a gap in between?
 
Ixion said:
When Inter are 10th playing Arsenal in 12th, with neither team able to be relegated, both coasting in their domestic leagues because it doesn't matter, the games will be completely meaningless. No one will flood to watch that just because its Inter Milan vs Arsenal. It will be a completely nothing affair. Games against the biggest teams usually have something important on the line, this will ensure you get a bunch of pointless games and that is how you devalue something.
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When is the last time any of the so called big teams in any of the leagues actually faced relegation? They all have too much money to fail... I don't get this argument at all because Real, Barca, ManUtd, City, Arsenal haven't been close to relegation anyway.
 
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