Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[NK86]

Of course the likes of Ashworth aren't reading the hysteria on here.

I'm not asking much, just for some thoughts beyond "sack ETH". What are yours? Say we sack him tomorrow, what should we do then to prevent the season being wasted?

I don’t know, get a good caretaker in. Have a list of managers ready to take it on immediately.

Your position is not “what next”, rather “who next”. That is simply using fans’ lack of knowledge of the current managerial situations around the world as another excuse to keep ETH.

The question should rather be, with ETH kept on, why are we committing to another year of poor performances, results and no growth?

 

[The Hilton]

Let Ruud run the team until the end of the season and stop the cycle of insane decisions with idiotic excuses such as "I am more successful than anybody except Pep because I won two stupid cups, nevermind finishing 8th"

And what makes you think Ruud running things until the end of the season would improve things for us?

I'm not even disagreeing, I'm simply curious if there's a reason beyond him not being Ten Hag.

 

[NK86]

crazy looking at the fixtures and realising we were the only prem team not to score this weekend. tough opposition, sure. but at some point the lack of entertainment value will start affecting the club

We are at -3 GD already, and 6 points behind our rivals by the third round.

 

[Skills]

crazy looking at the fixtures and realising we were the only prem team not to score this weekend. tough opposition, sure. but at some point the lack of entertainment value will start affecting the club

Over the last decade, we've scored more than 70 goals once in the league. That was with a meek 73 goals under the great entertainer OGS.

Just last season the following clubs managed more than 70:

Man City (96), Arsenal (91), Liverpool (86), Aston Villa (77), Spurs (74), Chelsea (77), Newcastle (85)

 

[NK86]

And what makes you think Ruud running things until the end of the season would improve things for us?

I'm not even disagreeing, I'm simply curious if there's a reason beyond him not being Ten Hag.

Have you worked with Rudd to offer an opinion on this beyond asking that question yourself? At this point, you are just wumming.

 

[Vidooq]

The only thing worse than his tactics are his statements.

Someone needs to tell him to stop with those "we won 2 trophies, the most after City" shit statements, because FA Cup and Carling Cup are not what United should be proud of winning.

It will take months to integrate Ugarte? Really? Months? My team did not gave up today, I'm proud of them. Yeah, kuddos for not conceding 5. Jesus Christ man, someone get a grip of him.

Why are you saying things that will be made quotes and piss people off.

 

[pocco]

Why isn't there a discussion thread for his replacement, slim pickings... other than Tuchel who else is available?

I thought we should have took De Zerbi and I'll stand by that. We won't get anyone top drawer during the season, but they don't need to be top drawer too improve on ETH, even in a temporary basis. They'd need to be not handed a squad that is already driven into the ground and at rock bottom, like Rangnick was.

 

[The Hilton]

I don’t know, get a good caretaker in. Have a list of managers ready to take it on immediately.

Your position is not “what next”, rather “who next”. That is simply using fans’ lack of knowledge of the current managerial situations around the world as another excuse to keep ETH.

The question should rather be, with ETH kept on, why are we committing to another year of poor performances, results and no growth?

Cool, who's the good caretaker? Who's on the list?

I don't want to commit to another season of poor performances, results, and no growth. Give me the name of a replacement and why they'll prevent that and I'll join you in calling for the change.

 

[Sanchez7]

Since February 24, 2024. Game against Fulham which we lost 2-1.

We have played 16 games in the league.

We have accumulated 16 points in that time period.

13 points in 13 games to the end of last season.
3 points in 3 games this new season.

Absolutely carbon copy of results .

ETH needs help, how and from who I don't know. But Ineos should either help him or relieve him of his duties. It's damaging.

Even, today's game, you would tell psychologically we are done. The damage is deep.

Since the 7-0 in Anfield ( 5th March 2023 ), we've won only 48% of our league games. Got only 54% points.

13 games from the day 7-0 to end of the season. We had 26 points.
38 games of last season 60 points.
3 games this season 3 points

• So, in 54 games, since Carabao Cup Final, we have accumulated 89 points. For comparison. City had 91 points last season in 38 games. Arsenal had 89 points in 38 games.

So even if we played 54 games, we wouldn't have won the league last season against a 38 game City team. In short, we need One Full season and half of it, (18 games) to equal City numbers. Biggest indictment to ETH.

Sadly this has gone on in 3 distinct seasons. After 2 distinct transfer windows, after spending over €420m in those 2 windows.



Just to be honest, like a genuine man or human being. The 7-0 game effects have been psychologically massive. We have never recovered from it honestly. Probably the manager should have left after that. Now you understand why other top clubs after such a result fire their coach. Recovering from such a result is never easy.

We have just prolonged the inevitable since that day, sadly.

Thanks for this - It honestly doesn't feel like it was this bad. 16 pts from 16 league games is relegation form, how is any serious fan still backing this clown?

 

[pocco]

His response when asked if it might be his coaching and not the players, says it all. He's a bad mix of arrogance and incompetence. There's nothing worse really.

 

[Teja]

Cool, who's the good caretaker? Who's on the list?

I don't want to commit to another season of poor performances, results, and no growth. Give me the name of a replacement and why they'll prevent that and I'll join you in calling for the change.

Hake and Ruud clearly. They were brought in for a reason. This is INEOS setting up for if things go south this season.

 

[Shark]

Cool, who's the good caretaker? Who's on the list?

I don't want to commit to another season of poor performances, results, and no growth. Give me the name of a replacement and why they'll prevent that and I'll join you in calling for the change.

The club pays individuals quite a lot of money to identify these types of things. Many Liverpool fans barely knew who Arne Slot was when he was announced. Yet here they are.

 

[NK86]

Cool, who's the good caretaker? Who's on the list?

I don't want to commit to another season of poor performances, results, and no growth. Give me the name of a replacement and why they'll prevent that and I'll join you in calling for the change.

Do you even read the post before replying?

 

[Winrar]

Since February 24, 2024. Game against Fulham which we lost 2-1.

We have played 16 games in the league.

We have accumulated 16 points in that time period.

13 points in 13 games to the end of last season.
3 points in 3 games this new season.

Absolutely carbon copy of results .

ETH needs help, how and from who I don't know. But Ineos should either help him or relieve him of his duties. It's damaging.

Even, today's game, you would tell psychologically we are done. The damage is deep.

Since the 7-0 in Anfield ( 5th March 2023 ), we've won only 48% of our league games. Got only 54% points.

13 games from the day 7-0 to end of the season. We had 26 points.
38 games of last season 60 points.
3 games this season 3 points

• So, in 54 games, since Carabao Cup Final, we have accumulated 89 points. For comparison. City had 91 points last season in 38 games. Arsenal had 89 points in 38 games.

So even if we played 54 games, we wouldn't have won the league last season against a 38 game City team. In short, we need One Full season and half of it, (18 games) to equal City numbers. Biggest indictment to ETH.

Sadly this has gone on in 3 distinct seasons. After 2 distinct transfer windows, after spending over €420m in those 2 windows.



Just to be honest, like a genuine man or human being. The 7-0 game effects have been psychologically massive. We have never recovered from it honestly. Probably the manager should have left after that. Now you understand why other top clubs after such a result fire their coach. Recovering from such a result is never easy.

We have just prolonged the inevitable since that day, sadly.

Sadly the team was already used to hammerings like that. Even the 6-3 vs City that season was flattering to us.

 

[pocco]

Cool, who's the good caretaker? Who's on the list?

I don't want to commit to another season of poor performances, results, and no growth. Give me the name of a replacement and why they'll prevent that and I'll join you in calling for the change.

Christ, are you still running with this nonsense? You have a manager who has delivered very little by the way of performances, results or growth, yet has spent the GDP of a small country for the privilege. He's proven to be exactly what you want to avoid. Surely trying something new is actually the more logical way forward? If not now then very soon, if results and performances continue as they have the last 18 months.

 

[NK86]

His response when asked if it might be his coaching and not the players, says it all. He's a bad mix of arrogance and incompetence. There's nothing worse really.

What did he say?

 

[BorisManUtd]

Yep and it was a mental knee jerk reaction.

Agree. I was buzzing with cup win but never changed vote because we all saw last season and how poor we looked in most of the games. 7-10 days later winning the cup didn't matter that much anymore because you'd remembered we still finished 8th (and according to some stats should've finished even lower).

I'll never get this tbh. Did one game really matter that much for so many people, even if they had an opinion on Ten Hag before? And going further, have those people already changed their minds after next 3 games we played since the final?

Think it's couple of factors: we beat City in the final after they won another title; played quite good and tactically smart; and Iirc had few players back (Varane, Martinez) so the narrative was - This is what we can do when our top players aren't injured. It was more the case of wishful thinking than objective analysis. Don't think INEOS were buying that and that's why it took them so long to make a decision but in the end went with safe option - give him 1 year extension and give him another preseason after the trophy. I don't think it's huge damage done if they sack him soon and potentially save the season.

 

[NewGlory]

And what makes you think Ruud running things until the end of the season would improve things for us?

I'm not even disagreeing, I'm simply curious if there's a reason beyond him not being Ten Hag.

Because Ruud is not the crazy motherfecker with lit up matches trying to burn the house down, screaming "I am still the second best"

FFS, at this point even Ole may do a better job (this last sentence is a joke!)

 

[Woziak]

Thanks for this - It honestly doesn't feel like it was this bad. 16 pts from 16 league games is relegation form, how is any serious fan still backing this clown?

When you barely score 1-1.5 goals per game, relegation battle is inevitable, give him till end of October but with the caveat that a change will be made unless he manages at least 12 points from next 6 EPL games which is 2 points per game average and the club start scoring more goals.

 

[saik]

Hake and Ruud clearly. They were brought in for a reason. This is INEOS setting up for if things go south this season.

Ruud maybe. Hake isn't. He has lesser credentials than even ETH had when we hired him. I don't think even Ruud is an option but he can probably do a job considering he's a legend here and done more for the club than any of the players out there on the pitch.

 

[Hoof the ball]

That interview post game with Slot. Dissected EtH in a second.

We push FB's so high, then Casemiro drops back between the CB's and the three Liverpool forwards just stay high and make it 3-on-3 every single time.

It's just so bad hearing Hank give everyone the blueprint to beat United this season.

 

[NK86]

That interview post game with Slot. Dissected EtH in a second.

We push FB's so high, then Casemiro drops back between the CB's and the three Liverpool forwards just stay high and make it 3-on-3 every single time.

It's just so bad hearing Hank give everyone the blueprint to beat United this season.

just need Heisenburg in there now

 

[noodlehair]

Not even focusing on Colyer's positioning - why is Dalot 10-15 yards ahead of his attacker (it is his attacker that scored btw)? Like, have we ever reaped enough benefits from this set-up to justify it?

I mean, here's Slot explicitly saying this is something they exploited:

This is what I've been trying to get through to people elsewhere on this forum. This is how ETH WANTS the players to set up. Everyone except the DM and CBs push ahead of the ball constantly and press from the front.

Except of course it doesn't work because you can't press from the front when most of the opposition team is behind you and you leave an ocean of space for them to both stand in and for their back line to play the ball into.

Opponents don't even need to pass the ball well to get through our system. It just has to go past our front line press (which inevitably tires after 20 minutes) and vaguely in the direction of one of their players. If the pass is loose it doesn't really matter because we only have one midfielder to mop it up so chances are one of their own players will either get to it first or get a challenge in anyway. Either that or just play round the side of our forwards ad run the ball up the pitch.

I'm completely fed up and. frankly, bored of watching us get tactically outplayed by our own system week after week, never doing a thing to recognise or address it. Then having to read all the crap and stick the players get for it on here. I mean yes there are players who definitely should be doing better, but they've been sent out to drown every game for a year by this rubbish. If you send a boxer out to fight with one hand tied every fight, they are never going to look like, and eventually think they are, a crap boxer.

 

[AshRK]

Since February 24, 2024. Game against Fulham which we lost 2-1.

We have played 16 games in the league.

We have accumulated 16 points in that time period.

13 points in 13 games to the end of last season.
3 points in 3 games this new season.

Absolutely carbon copy of results .

ETH needs help, how and from who I don't know. But Ineos should either help him or relieve him of his duties. It's damaging.

Even, today's game, you would tell psychologically we are done. The damage is deep.

Since the 7-0 in Anfield ( 5th March 2023 ), we've won only 48% of our league games. Got only 54% points.

13 games from the day 7-0 to end of the season. We had 26 points.
38 games of last season 60 points.
3 games this season 3 points

• So, in 54 games, since Carabao Cup Final, we have accumulated 89 points. For comparison. City had 91 points last season in 38 games. Arsenal had 89 points in 38 games.

So even if we played 54 games, we wouldn't have won the league last season against a 38 game City team. In short, we need One Full season and half of it, (18 games) to equal City numbers. Biggest indictment to ETH.

Sadly this has gone on in 3 distinct seasons. After 2 distinct transfer windows, after spending over €420m in those 2 windows.



Just to be honest, like a genuine man or human being. The 7-0 game effects have been psychologically massive. We have never recovered from it honestly. Probably the manager should have left after that. Now you understand why other top clubs after such a result fire their coach. Recovering from such a result is never easy.

We have just prolonged the inevitable since that day, sadly.

This is a fair point. I feel the whole morale went down since then. Eth also lost some self belief after that and so did the players.

 

[Shark]

When you barely score 1-1.5 goals per game, relegation battle is inevitable, give him till end of October but with the caveat that a change will be made unless he manages at least 12 points from next 6 EPL games which is 2 points per game average and the club start scoring more goals.

Why would you give him until the end of October when he's been serving this rubbish since we won the league cup in his first season. I just don't understand why United fans want to constantly give failed managers more time. For what? Have you not seen enough?

 

[El Zoido]

Utd match going fans are probably the mot patient supporter base of any of the big clubs in World football , but you can sense that even that patient is starting to wear very thin now..

Embarrassing defeat after defeat to your biggest rivals would wear the patience of even the most loyal supporters , it just can't go on. And the honeymoon is over for INEOS too. This is now happening under their watch.

I was in the Stretford end today and it was grim. Everyone is completely beat down by this, it’s happening over and over again.

 

[Teja]

Ok I know it was a bad result and the sight of Ten Hag irritates me but it's not a throw your toys out and sack the manager on GW3 type performance for me. Voted to keep for now. The individual errors that lead to the goals, not much needs to be said.

Build up: They generally looked reasonably competent. Mostly played it short and worked it up to the half way line without shitting the bed and kicking it long. They of course got it wrong twice leading to two goals (one Mainoo and one Casemiro error).

Pressing: Mediocre to bad. They got into quite a few dangerous situations where they had attackers running at our defence quite easily. The Mainoo error early-on leading to the TAA goal (which was ruled out for offside) was a let-off. We also forced them to go long a reasonable amount of time.

Attack: Mostly bad through poor individual quality. Zirkzee and Garnacho were rubbish. Rashford slightly better than rubbish but still pretty crap. Bruno did Bruno things. Amad was lively and should've done more with his runs.

Overall: deserved loss but a more even game than the scoreline suggests.

 

[BorisManUtd]

4-0 at Brentford
6-3 at City
7-0 at Liverpool
3-0 vs City at OT
3-0 vs Newcastle in Carabao at OT
3-0 vs Bournemouth at OT
Finishing 4th in CL group behind Copenhagen and Galatasaray
4-0 at Palace
3-0 vs Liverpool at OT

That's just 8 really bad results and a CL group campaign mentioned but there were so many other appaling performances last season. And many of our wins were either 1-0 or 2-1.

He got 3 preseasons. As many as Mourinho and more than Ole (no preseason in 2020 due to Covid) and van Gaal. Either results and performances improve after the break or INEOS are hopefully smart enough to sack him at some point during September/October.

 

[saik]

Why would you give him until the end of October when he's been serving this rubbish since we won the league cup in his first season. I just don't understand why United fans want to constantly give failed managers more time. For what? Have you not seen enough?

The new leadership team put some faith in him considering they didn't sack him in the summer, backed him by buying players and changing the coaching setup behind him. We are 3 games in, they might want to see if there would be any improvement before making that decision. So in that context, few more games is fair.

If he still sucks, then he's a goner. Don't think they are the kind to put up with it any longer if their credentials are anything to go by.

 

[El Zoido]

4-0 at Brentford
3-6 at City
7-0 at Liverpool
3-0 vs City at OT
3-0 vs Newcastle in Carabao at OT
3-0 vs Bournemouth at OT
Finishing 4th in CL group behind Copenhagen and Galatasaray
4-0 at Palace
3-0 vs Liverpool at OT

That's just 8 really bad results and a CL group campaign mentioned but there were so many other appaling performances last season. And many of our wins were either 1-0 or 2-1.

He got 3 preseasons. As many as Mourinho and more than Ole (no preseason in 2020 due to Covid) and van Gaal. Either results and performances improve after the break or INEOS are smart enough to sack him before at some point during September/October.

This won’t be the last result of this kind either. At this point it’s the norm.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Since February 24, 2024. Game against Fulham which we lost 2-1.

We have played 16 games in the league.

We have accumulated 16 points in that time period.

13 points in 13 games to the end of last season.
3 points in 3 games this new season.

Absolutely carbon copy of results .

ETH needs help, how and from who I don't know. But Ineos should either help him or relieve him of his duties. It's damaging.

Even, today's game, you would tell psychologically we are done. The damage is deep.

Since the 7-0 in Anfield ( 5th March 2023 ), we've won only 48% of our league games. Got only 54% points.

13 games from the day 7-0 to end of the season. We had 26 points.
38 games of last season 60 points.
3 games this season 3 points

• So, in 54 games, since Carabao Cup Final, we have accumulated 89 points. For comparison. City had 91 points last season in 38 games. Arsenal had 89 points in 38 games.

So even if we played 54 games, we wouldn't have won the league last season against a 38 game City team. In short, we need One Full season and half of it, (18 games) to equal City numbers. Biggest indictment to ETH.

Sadly this has gone on in 3 distinct seasons. After 2 distinct transfer windows, after spending over €420m in those 2 windows.



Just to be honest, like a genuine man or human being. The 7-0 game effects have been psychologically massive. We have never recovered from it honestly. Probably the manager should have left after that. Now you understand why other top clubs after such a result fire their coach. Recovering from such a result is never easy.

We have just prolonged the inevitable since that day, sadly.

Jeez all of us know that things are bad but then you see the numbers and it’s worse than I even imagined

 

[Shark]

The new leadership team put some faith in him considering they didn't sack him in the summer, backed him by buying players and changing the coaching setup behind him. We are 3 games in, they might want to see if there would be any improvement before making that decision. So in that context, few more games is fair.

If he still sucks, then he's a goner. Don't think they are the kind to put up with it any longer if their credentials are anything to go by.

This shouldn't be a fresh start though, and there is nothing to analyse anymore, we know what ETH is. I'd agree with you if this was a new manager of course, and we suffered this result. However as I said we've been suffering these kind of performances under ETH since he won the league cup. One Embarrassment after the other.

 

[TheLord]

We should absolutely fire ETH (should have done that last year) before he brings in more of "his boys" in the January window. If it were the other big clubs, ETH would have been sacked at least two times over by now.

This mess will require years to clean.

 

[BorisManUtd]

The new leadership team put some faith in him considering they didn't sack him in the summer, backed him by buying players and changing the coaching setup behind him. We are 3 games in, they might want to see if there would be any improvement before making that decision. So in that context, few more games is fair.

If he still sucks, then he's a goner. Don't think they are the kind to put up with it any longer if their credentials are anything to go by.

For me the best thing is they weren't the ones to choose ten Hag so won't have problem to get rid (like when Tuchel got sacked at Chelsea).

This won’t be the last result of this kind either. At this point it’s the norm.

Yeah. Historically most of our embarassing results came in October. Porto, Villa, Brentford, Fenerbahce and West Ham got the chance to have their turn. My money's on Villa.

 

[Adz_99]

This shouldn't be a fresh start though, and there is nothing to analyse anymore, we know what ETH is. I'd agree with you if this was a new manager of course, and we suffered this result. However as I said we've been suffering these kind of performances under ETH since he won the league cup. One Embarrassment after the other.

Yeah I'm fed up of giving him chances to redeem himself. The Palace game was the final straw for me, that was the one where I was convinced he was going. How the feck do you survive losing 4 nil to Crystal Palace!? At least the Brentford one he had the excuse of it being his second game.

I don't think he'll go tomorrow but I genuinely wish he would. Maybe INEOS will surprise us with some decisive action.

 

[Irwin99]

This should never have been a mitigating factor though. A manager’s job is to manage and make the most out of the availability tools. Ten Hag has received considerably more backing in terms of recruitment than most managers ever get or dream of. Managers seldom have squads that are fully or mostly comprised of players they have signed unless it’s an outlier situation like Ferguson, Wenger or now Pep - managers that stay at the same club for +5 years. That’s not a regular thing.

In terms of the Newcastle game, when those 8 players have consistently failed under other managers and you see where they eventually end up in their careers, I can't help but give a manager a little bit of leeway, especially when the target for a United manager is to challenge for the major trophies. No manager is winning leagues with that lot, not Pep, not anyone. What Klopp and Arteta did was pretty a rebuild from the ground up, which is what I was interested in seeing when EtH came in. However, this season is far more EtH's team, he's been backed, had two seasons now and I personally don't feel his style of football is going to work here. "Best transition team in the world" just looks a million miles away and I question why there is so much emphasis on counter attack and directness and so little on control. He was supposed to fix one of Ole and Jose's biggest problems, not build on it.

 

[Sanchez7]

Cool, who's the good caretaker? Who's on the list?

I don't want to commit to another season of poor performances, results, and no growth. Give me the name of a replacement and why they'll prevent that and I'll join you in calling for the change.

More than half of the current premier league managers have more than 16 pts in last 15 games, so I would say any of them would be an upgade.

Everton have 26 pts v/s EtH's 16 pts in last 16 league games. They are currently sitting on 0 pts after 3 games.

 

[NK86]

Ok I know it was a bad result and the sight of Ten Hag irritates me but it's not a throw your toys out and sack the manager on GW3 type performance for me. Voted to keep for now. The individual errors that lead to the goals, not much needs to be said.

Build up: They generally looked reasonably competent. Mostly played it short and worked it up to the half way line without shitting the bed and kicking it long. They of course got it wrong twice leading to two goals (one Mainoo and one Casemiro error).

Pressing: Mediocre to bad. They got into quite a few dangerous situations where they had attackers running at our defence quite easily. The Mainoo error early-on leading to the TAA goal (which was ruled out for offside) was a let-off. We also forced them to go long a reasonable amount of time.

Attack: Mostly bad through poor individual quality. Zirkzee and Garnacho were rubbish. Rashford slightly better than rubbish but still pretty crap. Bruno did Bruno things. Amad was lively and should've done more with his runs.

Overall: deserved loss but a more even game than the scoreline suggests.

It’s not knee-jerk though. It’s a consistent run of poor performances for more than a season. You don’t get a reset every time a new season begins.

Ineos should have sacked him at the end of the season. They flinched and now we are here again. 3 games in, similar issues all over. At this point we are all just waiting for the inevitable. Sometimes it’s better to just rip off the bandaid.

 

[El Zoido]

Ok I know it was a bad result and the sight of Ten Hag irritates me but it's not a throw your toys out and sack the manager on GW3 type performance for me. Voted to keep for now. The individual errors that lead to the goals, not much needs to be said.

Build up: They generally looked reasonably competent. Mostly played it short and worked it up to the half way line without shitting the bed and kicking it long. They of course got it wrong twice leading to two goals (one Mainoo and one Casemiro error).

Pressing: Mediocre to bad. They got into quite a few dangerous situations where they had attackers running at our defence quite easily. The Mainoo error early-on leading to the TAA goal (which was ruled out for offside) was a let-off. We also forced them to go long a reasonable amount of time.

Attack: Mostly bad through poor individual quality. Zirkzee and Garnacho were rubbish. Rashford slightly better than rubbish but still pretty crap. Bruno did Bruno things. Amad was lively and should've done more with his runs.

Overall: deserved loss but a more even game than the scoreline suggests.

It wasn’t an even game at all, Liverpool only went up as many gears as they needed to win. Which wasn’t many. This could’ve been another 7-0 on another day.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I thought we should have took De Zerbi and I'll stand by that. We won't get anyone top drawer during the season, but they don't need to be top drawer too improve on ETH, even in a temporary basis. They'd need to be not handed a squad that is already driven into the ground and at rock bottom, like Rangnick was.

Tuchel is available.

I'm pretty sure he'd have us comfortably in the top 4 if we hired him quick enough.