Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

Erik ten Hag

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ETH has literally no excuses now, get this squad performing or its curtains for him.

Which is fair enough imo.
 
This almost deserves its own thread. Shows the shocking levels of game management under Ten Hag. Triple the amount of last minute winners conceded in two years verses the previous 29 years. I mean what the actual feck?

Last minute equalisers conceded in PL History:
  • 98/99 - Tottenham 2-2 Man Utd (Sol Campbell 90th min - 12/12/98)
  • 98-99 - Liverpool 2-2 Man Utd (Paul Ince 90th min – 05/05/99)
  • 00/01 - West Ham 2-2 Man Utd (Davor Sucker 90th min – 26/08/00)
  • 07/08 – Arsenal 2-2 Man Utd (William Gallas 90+1 – 03/11/07)
  • 10/11 – Fulham 2-2 Man Utd (Brede Hangelaand 90th min – 22/08/10)
  • 10/11 – Everton 3-3 Man Utd (Mikel Arteta 90+2 – 11/09/10)
  • 10/11 – Birmingham 1-1 Man Utd (Lee Bowyer 90th min – 28/12/10)
  • 12/13 - Tottenham 1-1 Man Utd (Clint Dempsey 90+3 - 20/01/13)
  • 13/14 - Cardiff 2-2 Man Utd (Kim Bo-Kyung 90+1 - 24/11/13)
  • 15/16 - Newcastle 3-3 Man Utd (Peter Dummett 90th min - 12/01/16)
  • 15/16 - Chelsea 1-1 Man Utd (Diego Costa 90+1 - 07/02/16)
  • 17/18 - Leicester 2-2 Man Utd (Harry Maguire 90+4 - 23/12/17)
  • 18/19 - Chelsea 2-2 Man Utd (Ross Barkley 90+6 - 20/10/18)
  • 19/20 - Sheffield Utd 3-3 Man Utd (Oli McBurnie 90th min - 24/11/19)
  • 19/20 - Man Utd 2-2 Southampton (Michael Obafemi 90+6 - 13/07/20)
  • 20/21 - Man Utd 3-3 Everton (Dominic Calvert-Lewin 90+6 - 06/02/21)
TEN HAG ARRIVES:
  • 22/23 - Crystal Palace 1-1 Man Utd (Michael Olise 90+1 - 18/01/23)
  • 23/24 - Brentford 1-1 Man Utd (Kristoffer Ajer 90+9 - 30/03/24)
  • 23/24 - Chelsea 4-3 Man Utd (Cole Palmer 90+10 – 04/04/24)
Last minute winners conceded in PL History:
  • 06/07 – Arsenal 2-1 Man Utd (Thierry Henry 90+3 – 21/01/07)
  • 19/20 - Man Utd 1-2 Crystal Palace (Patrick van Aanholt 90+3 - 24/08/19)
TEN HAG ARRIVES:
  • 22/23 - Arsenal 3-2 Man Utd (Eddie Nketiah 90th min - 22/01/23)
  • 22/23 - Brighton 1-0 Man Utd (Alexix McAllister 90+9 - 04/05/23)
  • 23/24 - Arsenal 3-1 Man Utd (Declan Rice 90+6 - 03/11/23)
  • 23/24 - Man Utd 1-2 Fulham (Alex Iwobi 90+7 - 24/02/24)
  • 23/24 - Chelsea 4-3 Man Utd (Cole Palmer 90+11 – 04/04/24)
  • 24/25 - Brighton 2-1 Man Utd (Joao Pedro 90+5 - 24/08/24)
 
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hobbers said:
Probably not, but it's great to see Ashworth/Wilcox doing things ETH obviously wont agree with, or elect to do himself. First his staff get swapped out, now his go-to game-saver is sold.
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At some point when we lose to a team like Everton this season, he's going to mention that he didn't have the options off the bench to change the game and he'll elude to McTomminay's goals from last season.
 
Offside said:
This almost deserves its own thread. Shows the shocking levels of game management under Ten Hag. Triple the amount of last minute winners conceded in two years verses the previous 29 years. I mean what the actual feck?

Last minute equalisers conceded in PL History:
  • 98/99 - Tottenham 2-2 Man Utd (Sol Campbell 90th min - 12/12/98)
  • 98-99 - Liverpool 2-2 Man Utd (Paul Ince 90th min – 05/05/99)
  • 00/01 - West Ham 2-2 Man Utd (Davor Sucker 90th min – 26/08/00)
  • 07/08 – Arsenal 2-2 Man Utd (William Gallas 90+1 – 03/11/07)
  • 10/11 – Fulham 2-2 Man Utd (Brede Hangelaand 90th min – 22/08/10)
  • 10/11 – Everton 3-3 Man Utd (Mikel Arteta 90+2 – 11/09/10)
  • 10/11 – Birmingham 1-1 Man Utd (Lee Bowyer 90th min – 28/12/10)
  • 12/13 - Tottenham 1-1 Man Utd (Clint Dempsey 90+3 - 20/01/13)
  • 13/14 - Cardiff 2-2 Man Utd (Kim Bo-Kyung 90+1 - 24/11/13)
  • 15/16 - Newcastle 3-3 Man Utd (Peter Dummett 90th min - 12/01/16)
  • 15/16 - Chelsea 1-1 Man Utd (Diego Costa 90+1 - 07/02/16)
  • 17/18 - Leicester 2-2 Man Utd (Harry Maguire 90+4 - 23/12/17)
  • 18/19 - Chelsea 2-2 Man Utd (Ross Barkley 90+6 - 20/10/18)
  • 19/20 - Sheffield Utd 3-3 Man Utd (Oli McBurnie 90th min - 24/11/19)
  • 19/20 - Man Utd 2-2 Southampton (Michael Obafemi 90+6 - 13/07/20)
  • 20/21 - Man Utd 3-3 Everton (Dominic Calvert-Lewin 90+6 - 06/02/21)
TEN HAG ARRIVES:
  • 22/23 - Crystal Palace 1-1 Man Utd (Michael Olise 90+1 - 18/01/23)
  • 23/24 - Brentford 1-1 Man Utd (Kristoffer Ajer 90+9 - 30/03/24)
  • 23/24 - Chelsea 4-3 Man Utd (Cole Palmer 90+10 – 04/04/24)
Last minute winners conceded in PL History:
  • 06/07 – Arsenal 2-1 Man Utd (Thierry Henry 90+3 – 21/01/07)
  • 19/20 - Man Utd 1-2 Crystal Palace (Patrick van Aanholt 90+3 - 24/08/19)
TEN HAG ARRIVES:
  • 22/23 - Arsenal 3-2 Man Utd (Eddie Nketiah 90th min - 22/01/23)
  • 22/23 - Brighton 1-0 Man Utd (Alexix McAllister 90+9 - 04/05/23)
  • 23/24 - Arsenal 3-1 Man Utd (Declan Rice 90+6 - 03/11/23)
  • 23/24 - Man Utd 1-2 Fulham (Alex Iwobi 90+7 - 24/02/24)
  • 23/24 - Chelsea 4-3 Man Utd (Cole Palmer 90+11 – 04/04/24)
  • 24/25 - Brighton 2-1 Man Utd (Joao Pedro 90+5 - 24/08/24)
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Interestingly, I'd like to see if it is a similar trend for other teams because of the increased stoppage time.

Either way, it's shocking reading.
 
hobbers said:
But according to the football experts on Stretford Paddock it can never be the manager's fault when their team routinely concede late goals, so there's no point talking about it.
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The lengths they’ll go to in order to prop up Ten Hag made me block them off YouTube. Are there any balanced fan channels?
 
crossy1686 said:
At some point when we lose to a team like Everton this season, he's going to mention that he didn't have the options off the bench to change the game and he'll elude to McTomminay's goals from last season.
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This will 100% happen, you're bang on.

Grim.
 
Over £600m on players now Erik no excuses not even the incoming we have lost Scott's league goals which no doubt he will use soon enough.
 
doubleohseven said:
I don't know who would be stupid enough to argue EtH is the worst post-Fergie manager, especially over David Moyes, who inherited Fergie's champions and took them to seventh.

The idea he has 'largely avoided scrutiny' is a frankly insane statement to make. Bonkers, even with relationship to his predecessors.

The 'anti-EtH' think along the same lines as ABUs. A few examples:
  • Whenever EtH wins a trophy, or even a match, it's because he is lucky. When he loses it's 'reality'.
  • The trophy we have won is not good enough. Top four should be our priority. If top four is secured, it's not good enough, we should be winning trophies. When top four and a trophy is secured, next season will determine if we truly deserved it.
  • Losing by more than two goals is remembered years later, as 'proof', no matter the context.
  • If players are injured, it's no excuse or even a reason. He has to 'deal with it' no matter the volume. Besides, it's his coaching staff which is to blame, anyway, even though 'every club gets them'.
  • The previous manager, who, at the time was hounded and ridiculed, is to be re-evaluated as 'building something'.
  • There is no 'clear football plan', even though what such a term actually means is completely arbitrary.
  • Past successes are the 'real way' of doing things. We just got lucky this time. Even though those past successes were, at the time, considered inferior to the 'real' successes of their past.
  • When a player is at United, he has it 'coached out of him'. Whenever they leave and string two passes together, they've suddenly improved immeasurably, and we should never have let them go.
  • Those demanding the manager sacked will not offer the name of the next candidate, but will detail 'what is needed' without advising what candidate can or will fulfil the criteria.
Ad infinitum.


I agree he'll be clipped if there's no trophies or significant improvement in league position.

My concern is the summer pursuit of a new manager. Some of the names considered were between farcical and underwhelming.

There has been zero improvement in candidate, has there? No plausible replacement has emerged since the aborted process.

We could be looking at Potter, or even worse a pliant Southgate type 'positive vibes' eejit whose qualification extends to 'mates with Dan'.
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Moyes inherited the most poisoned of poisoned chalices, expected to challenge for the title (not top four!) with a team that was crumbling all around him after years of spending restrictions and Glazer neglect. He also had to deal with Woodward as his "DoF" (not in title but in action). His sole summer signing was Fellaini. He was 7th when he was sacked.

EtH has now overseen the spending of £600m on signings. Our football is dire. We finished 8th last season - maybe you didn't notice? We rarely win away, we rarely win convincingly, we often lose to teams with half our resources and quality and once every couple of months we get absolutely embarrassing spanked by someone.

All of the other arguments aren't worth addressing because they're all strawman arguments or arguments other people have made. I'll only address arguments I have made, and my argument is he's spent the most money and achieved the worst results overall in the league (which is where I'll judge United managers) and so for those simple reasons, he's the worst for me.

In fact....I could take ALL of that IF the football was half-decent and there were signs of some kind of structure or system being implemented (see Arteta at Arsenal), but we still look incredibly poorly coached.

So he doesn't pass the eye-test, he doesn't get results...what has he done to deserve folk defending him so doggedly?
 
Lentwood said:
Moyes inherited the most poisoned of poisoned chalices, expected to challenge for the title (not top four!) with a team that was crumbling all around him after years of spending restrictions and Glazer neglect. He also had to deal with Woodward as his "DoF" (not in title but in action). His sole summer signing was Fellaini. He was 7th when he was sacked.

EtH has now overseen the spending of £600m on signings. Our football is dire. We finished 8th last season - maybe you didn't notice? We rarely win away, we rarely win convincingly, we often lose to teams with half our resources and quality and once every couple of months we get absolutely embarrassing spanked by someone.

All of the other arguments aren't worth addressing because they're all strawman arguments or arguments other people have made. I'll only address arguments I have made, and my argument is he's spent the most money and achieved the worst results overall in the league (which is where I'll judge United managers) and so for those simple reasons, he's the worst for me.

In fact....I could take ALL of that IF the football was half-decent and there were signs of some kind of structure or system being implemented (see Arteta at Arsenal), but we still look incredibly poorly coached.

So he doesn't pass the eye-test, he doesn't get results...what has he done to deserve folk defending him so doggedly?
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Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
 
Lentwood said:
Moyes inherited the most poisoned of poisoned chalices, expected to challenge for the title (not top four!) with a team that was crumbling all around him after years of spending restrictions and Glazer neglect. He also had to deal with Woodward as his "DoF" (not in title but in action). His sole summer signing was Fellaini. He was 7th when he was sacked.
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Moyes inherited a squad who had just won the Premier League and had an average age of 28.

There's no way EtH inherited a better set-up. No way, Jose, or Ole, or Ralf...

The bulletpoints you refer to are not as much 'strawmen' arguments as much as they are worn-out narratives posing as fact.

They're all in this thread, alone. Go see.

Desert Eagle said:
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
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Fair comment.

A two-season manager winning trophies over both seasons, one marred by injuries, really should keep a manager on at United, and failure to meet base objectives ought to see them gone if they're three seasons in.

However, we really need to assess who will replace him, lest we talk ourselves into a Company Plant who is granted too much time in which to fail upwards.
 
skc_18 said:
Problem is not winning the game, problem is that we are not able to play our style against teams like Brighton when we had complete squad.
Players clearly dont know the style yet (if ETH has any), nor how to interact with each other on the field. They try to play possession football but the ball is always in our box and I dont feel our defense has much confidence in that style nor I feel our defense seem comfortable with ball in that position. And at the end, results is always same , one of the defensive players will hoof the ball to attacker.

And we see as soon as the match start, non-stop pressing from our attackers , which will exactly last 20 mins. Is it only me or does every one see our attackers(bar Bruno) are already exhausted after first 20 mins ?

If we are close to challenging trophies, we should not be seeing above issues which we have been evident in last season as well.
Except Martinez, I still dont feel any of the players bought by ETH are better than the players they are replacing.
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Brighton's way of play, which has been a staple since even before Potter and has evolved with each successive manager with their own tweaks (i.e., continuity from manager to manager), forces teams to play a little more different than they want to get the result. Playing the ball around at the back and being patient knowing one or two passes bypass a high line and compact shape of Brighton - see Amad's goal - isn't a bad thing and the amount of offsides is indicative of that (playing into space behind the backline to break their shape).

The players cannot and do not press every single minute, but I do agree the off ball work does not fit all the players on the pitch where if one or two players aren't smart enough or physical enough, then it breaks down easier.

Onana is significantly better on the ball and passing it around than DDG. Lisandro, de Ligt, and Yoro are all better than Maguire and Lindelof (Varane was class at times but too crocked). Mazraoui is clearly better than AWB and Dalot at RB. Midfield is still a hole even with Ugarte because neither Mainoo or Casemiro have a viable back up and Casemiro is on his last legs at a high level.
 
No more excuses for the manager this season, time to deliver or give some else a go.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
Dwight Yorke wants him sacked.

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He rightly wants him sacked but that reasoning about “attracting the biggest players in the world” is just idiotic, we already attract the right caliber of players and signings of de Ligt and Yoro this summer only prove that. We need a consistent, offensive tactical approach and a right charismatic man in the dugout.
 
We've spent a massive amount of money this summer. Pressure is on for ETH to integrate them quickly and get us winning.

No more room for excuses anymore. We're pretty much covered for anything but the worst injury crises.
 
doubleohseven said:
Moyes inherited a squad who had just won the Premier League and had an average age of 28.

There's no way EtH inherited a better set-up. No way, Jose, or Ole, or Ralf...

The bulletpoints you refer to are not as much 'strawmen' arguments as much as they are worn-out narratives posing as fact.

They're all in this thread, alone. Go see.
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Yeah, but my point is, when I put forward an argument, I expect the poster to address that argument / those arguments and not list some things that other people have said (or supposedly said) and argue those points against me.

At this stage, I would say that folks who want to argue to keep EtH have to work harder to justify their position, because EtH is breaking all the wrong records left, right and centre and our performances are as bad as the stats
 
Desert Eagle said:
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
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He should be looking to win the Europa League this year, there is no reason we shouldnt win it given the squad we now have and the fact no Champions League sides will drop down.
 
Desert Eagle said:
Win two trophies in two years. That's literally what is keeping him in a job. If he ends the season trophyless and outside the top four he will be gone.
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Either we start seeing better performances or better results which keeps us in top 4-5 places going into November or he might be gone. If we are having a season like last, he won't be there till Christmas, forget trophyless season.
 
crossy1686 said:
At some point when we lose to a team like Everton this season, he's going to mention that he didn't have the options off the bench to change the game and he'll elude to McTomminay's goals from last season.
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Shark said:
This will 100% happen, you're bang on.

Grim.
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So true. I want us to get back to where we were but I just can't stand the smug pricky, sorry.
Personally I don't think there's any way he'll be our long term manager.
 
Wonder what will happen to the ajx old boys fc when the sacking eventually happens.
 
RedBanker said:
Wonder what will happen to the ajx old boys fc when the sacking eventually happens.
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I'm pretty sure 99% of managers would love to work with Onana, Mazraoui, de Ligt, and Martínez. Antony doesn't have a future at the club, no matter who the manager is, I think that's evident.
 
Thought I'd bring another stat in.

Of the 117 games Hag has been in charge of, we have scored 3 or more goals in just 30 games, so around 25%.

16 of the games in his first season, 14 in the second. Although I dont have the outright wins and losses, many of these 30 games include 4-3 defeats or wins against lower league teams in the cup games. Only 13 games in the 78 Premier league games have we scored 3 or more goals, around 16%.

For a guy that wants to play attacking football, there is literally zero evidence of this. The start to the season is absolutely pathetic. I feel another sacking is coming in November and that is why RVN has been nought in, to cover.
 
MrBest said:
Thought I'd bring another stat in.

Of the 117 games Hag has been in charge of, we have scored 3 or more goals in just 30 games, so around 25%.

16 of the games in his first season, 14 in the second. Although I dont have the outright wins and losses, many of these 30 games include 4-3 defeats or wins against lower league teams in the cup games. Only 13 games in the 78 Premier league games have we scored 3 or more goals, around 16%.

For a guy that wants to play attacking football, there is literally zero evidence of this. The start to the season is absolutely pathetic. I feel another sacking is coming in November and that is why RVN has been nought in, to cover.
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Who said he wants to play attacking football?

ETH comes with a lot of credit and assumption of being a "good coach", because we wanted to believe he's a modern, attacking-football-style oriented manager. But that doesn't seem to be the case, he's just like any other manager out there - his team beats weaker opponents (as expected), and if you get him better players he will get better results. It's all about the players, not coaching by Ten Hag.
 
Lentwood said:
Yeah, but my point is, when I put forward an argument, I expect the poster to address that argument / those arguments and not list some things that other people have said (or supposedly said) and argue those points against me.

At this stage, I would say that folks who want to argue to keep EtH have to work harder to justify their position, because EtH is breaking all the wrong records left, right and centre and our performances are as bad as the stats
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If they're applicable, they're applicable and not 'strawmen'.

Lentwood said:
At this stage, I would say that folks who want to argue to keep EtH have to work harder to justify their position, because EtH is breaking all the wrong records left, right and centre and our performances are as bad as the stats
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Yes, that's fair.

Can see him being clipped around October.

The usual mid-season sacking period.
RedRocket9908 said:
He should be looking to win the Europa League
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We ought to have won the EL in his first season but we wasted umpteen chances to bury Sevilla at OT. Second leg was an error strewn disasterclass.

I don't think we will win it during this season, either, even though Spanish Kryptonite FC have not qualified for their personal tournament.

Can see us eliminated to the first side to put it up to us.
 
Borys said:
Who said he wants to play attacking football?

ETH comes with a lot of credit and assumption of being a "good coach", because we wanted to believe he's a modern, attacking-football-style oriented manager. But that doesn't seem to be the case, he's just like any other manager out there - his team beats weaker opponents (as expected), and if you get him better players he will get better results. It's all about the players, not coaching by Ten Hag.
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He often states in post match reviews how he wants to play attacking football. That comment was less about what I want, which of course would total football.

You mention better players, including this season, I think I read he has now spent 600m on new players. I think it is safe to safe that after 2 full seasons and a third window, this is now his team. The excuse of new players is diminishing fast as they have come, many at his request. Also, plenty of outgoings have happened too.
 
He’s clearly lacking in any coaching acumen and has the charisma of an awkward middle aged man who plays dungeons and dragons whilst still living with his mum. He’s no excuse now and, because of this, I fully expect him to be replaced by Ruud come October.
 
Onana, Bayindir, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Martinez, Evans, Malacia, Ugarte, Casemiro, Eriksen, Antony, Mount, Hojlund and Zirkzee are all his signings (bought in his era for around 650 mil euros).
That is 15 players of 25. Add to that Mainoo, Amad and Garnacho who he promoted (so can be counted as his players). On top of that he inherited Bruno, Rashford and Shaw who are (at least) very good players.
He has completely "his squad" now and any excuses and lowering expectations should be out of door from now.

I read here how top 4 would be success. No, it wouldn't. This team should and must be easily in top 4 with preparing for title challenge next year.
 
He has his squad, so this season we should look a hell of a lot better.

We are only two games in, but we do look more solid.

One problem that remains is scoring, another unnecessary defensive errors.

The ones who say Ten Hag will be gone by Xmas: that’s a bit mental and premature.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
He should be looking to win the Europa League this year, there is no reason we shouldnt win it given the squad we now have and the fact no Champions League sides will drop down.
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Didn't know that. Hadn't paid much attention to the new structure as yet. He should absolutely be looking to win it.
 
Think he'll be gone soon, our play looks a bit better yes.

But since pre season, we've faced ; Arsenal, Liverpool, City, Brighton and lost all. This team is just used to losing, not dominating, not being comfortable, not scoring. Sure it's only pre season, but same thing from last season. I fear he doesn't have it in him to really turn things around here, job just too big.

If Slot does well at Liverpool, the most interesting manager might be Peter Bosz out there. Would quite love him here.

Dan Ashworth for me has 3 major points per 1 september, World Class LB, World Class CM and life after Erik ten Hag.
 
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