Erik ten Hag | 2024/25

[ForeverRed1]

Premier League away record:
P41 - W17 - D7 - L17
GF52 - GA65

If you want that to look even more grim, without promoted sides:
P34 - W10 - D7 - L17
GF39 - GA62

It was always going to be grim and not pretty.

Getting to the root cause of problems always is. This season won’t be particularly pretty at times but we’ll start to see massive improvement on how we play, style of play and attitude.

January transfer window and next summer will see the last of the dead wood leave along with rashford/bruno. I predict next summer will see a totally fresh squad from when ETH took over with no OG players left (at worse one or two).

This season will be progress, far from perfection.

 

[Zumbi]

The debate between us was started after I said looking at the table after 5 games is utterly pointless. And then you seemed to argue otherwise, asking at what stage it should be looked at instead.

The debate branched off in to that sure, where I repeatedly said that both results and performances matter, and that bad enough results early in the season can still be detrimental to a team’s chances over the season. I stand by that.

But the original point that started it all was someone saying they expected us to beat Spurs. I replied by saying I didn’t think that was a sound expectation and thy I wouldn’t be surprised by a win, draw or loss against Spurs, specifically because both teams results have been very inconsistent so far this season, as evidenced by the league table.

 

[VP89]

The debate branched off in to that sure, where I repeatedly said that both results and performances matter, and that bad enough results early in the season can still be detrimental to a team’s chances over the season. I stand by that.

But the original point that started it all was someone saying they expected us to beat Spurs. I replied by saying I didn’t think that was a sound expectation and thy I wouldn’t be surprised by a win, draw or loss against Spurs, specifically because both teams results have been very inconsistent so far this season, as evidenced by the league table.

You know what my debate with you was about. It's silly to point to a league table 5 games in. If you agreed with that in the first place we didn't need so many exchanges.

 

[Zumbi]

You know what my debate with you was about. It's silly to point to a league table 5 games in. If you agreed with that in the first place we didn't need so many exchanges.

On the contrary, it’s silly to completely disregard results five games in as if they’re some sort of irrelevance. League tables are, after all, merely a formatted way of displaying results, and both performances and results are important in football no matter what stage of the season we’re in.

Besides, you know full well I wasn’t arguing the current table was conclusive of anything. I referenced it only when making a very specific point about an upcoming match against a team who we’re equal on points with. But as an earlier poster pointed out, you tend to drag things into the weeds in your attempts to deflect any criticism of Ten Hag.

 

[VP89]

On the contrary, it’s silly to completely disregard results five games in as if they’re some sort of irrelevance. League tables are, after all, merely a formatted way of displaying results, and both performances and results are important in football no matter what stage of the season we’re in.

Besides, you know full well I wasn’t arguing the current table was conclusive of anything. I referenced it only when making a very specific point about an upcoming match against a team who we’re equal on points with. But as an earlier poster pointed out, you tend to drag things into the weeds in your attempts to deflect any criticism of Ten Hag.

I didn't say it's irrelevant. Results aren't irrelevant. But relying on a league table when making a point 5 points in is quite silly, particularly when the teams are on even points.

 

[Superden]

For all our good play in the first half, he was outwitted by the oppositions managers changes in the second. Not for the first time. He just doesnt have that magic touch to inspire teams / is tactically astute enough on the fly.

 

[glazed]

If you don’t mean the things you write, then perhaps don’t write them.

I mean what I write and I explained what I mean. If you continue not to understand that's between you and your neurons and I can't help you.

 

[Zumbi]

I didn't say it's irrelevant. Results aren't irrelevant. But relying on a league table when making a point 5 points in is quite silly, particularly when the teams are on even points.

I wasn’t relying on it. It was just one piece of information I included amongst several others when making a point about one particular upcoming game. As for your “particularly when the teams are even on points”, congratulations! You accidentally, albeit belatedly found the point. Us having similarly inconsistent results to Spurs is exactly why I don’t share the other poster’s expectation that we will win that match. As I’ve said several times already, for me it’s a toss up that could go either way.

 

[Sarni]

I don't understand why he's still here, I really don't.

We are not a sacking club. We stand by our manager.

I think INEOS simply ended up giving in to fans pressure in the Summer. After we won the cup, overwhelming majority of our fans wanted ETH to stay. I think that is also why we won’t sack him anytime soon as outside this forum he seems to still be hugely supported by our fans, and I get the same feeling from matchgoing fans as well (he got huge applause during his speech after Newcastle game before we even beat City). I think barring an absolute disaster he will have fans behind him as long as he’s here so at one point INEOS might have to act against it. But it won’t be for a while.

I actually think we will do well this year and finish 5th - 6th, which will earn him a 2-3 year extension. The signs so far this year indicate that we are capable of getting to 5th with a bit of luck.

 

[Zumbi]

I mean what I write and I explained what I mean. If you continue not to understand that's between you and your neurons and I can't help you.

Literally no one was taking about RvN when you decided to suggest we start directing our ire at him. An absolutely laughable take from someone that’s repeatedly pleaded for patience with Ten Hag.

We can all read that you decided to write that, no matter how much you deny it. It’s there in black and white. .

 

[glazed]

Literally no one was taking about RvN when you decided to suggest we start directing our ire at him. An absolutely laughable take from someone that’s repeatedly pleaded for patience with Ten Hag.

We can all read that you decided to write that, no matter how much you deny it. It’s there in black and white. .

Doubtless intelligent people will understand the point that you cannot. Which is that it makes more sense to criticise RvP than ETH for the goal scoring performance of the strikers. But neither makes much sense since one striker is settling in and the other is coming back from injury.

You can continue to suggest I said something else but the only person who will get laughed at is you.

And yes, ETH needs patience. Judge him in the new year.

 

[VP89]

I wasn’t relying on it. It was just one piece of information I included amongst several others when making a point about one particular upcoming game. As for your “particularly when the teams are even on points”, congratulations! You accidentally, albeit belatedly found the point. Us having similarly inconsistent results to Spurs is exactly why I don’t share the other poster’s expectation that we will win that match. As I’ve said several times already, for me it’s a toss up that could go either way.

I think you need to differentiate between what I posted and what you were debating with the other poster. Go back and revisit my first post, and your subsequent reply. You even asked when one should look at the league table if not 5 games in which shows you were reliant on it for making a point. I think unless we are on an atrocious start to the season, 5 games in doesn't give much information.

 

[Zumbi]

Doubtless intelligent people will understand the point that you cannot. Which is that it makes more sense to criticise RvP than ETH for the goal scoring performance of the strikers. But neither makes much sense since one striker is settling in and the other is coming back from injury.

You can continue to suggest I said something else but the only person who will get laughed at is you.

And yes, ETH needs patience. Judge him in the new year.

Ten Hag has had several seasons to work with our attacking players. RvN had only been here a few weeks. Given your history of pleading for patience, why would you criticize the guy that only just got here and not the guy that’s been working with them for years?

Please, take us less intelligent folk through that genius thought process?

If blaming neither of them makes sense, then why did you suggest we blame anyone?

 

[stevoc]

We are not a sacking club. We stand by our manager.

I think INEOS simply ended up giving in to fans pressure in the Summer. After we won the cup, overwhelming majority of our fans wanted ETH to stay. I think that is also why we won’t sack him anytime soon as outside this forum he seems to still be hugely supported by our fans, and I get the same feeling from matchgoing fans as well (he got huge applause during his speech after Newcastle game before we even beat City). I think barring an absolute disaster he will have fans behind him as long as he’s here so at one point INEOS might have to act against it. But it won’t be for a while.

I actually think we will do well this year and finish 5th - 6th, which will earn him a 2-3 year extension. The signs so far this year indicate that we are capable of getting to 5th with a bit of luck.

We don't need luck, if we finish 5th it'll be because Erik dragged us up there. And after such a dizzingly high finish it would need to be more than a 2-3 year extension. More like 4-5, give him another 5 years and another billion to spend and who knows where he can take us.

Probably 3rd.

 

[Tyrion]

I'm amazed that some fans want him to stay. Seems pretty obvious the club wasn't sure who to replace him with so just left him in place. I'd be surprised if he's still there by the end of the season.

 

[Zumbi]

I think you need to differentiate between what I posted and what you were debating with the other poster. Go back and revisit my first post, and your subsequent reply. You even asked when one should look at the league table if not 5 games in which shows you were reliant on it for making a point. I think unless we are on an atrocious start to the season, 5 games in doesn't give much information.

You were the one that jumped into that debate with a reply, so you can’t now try and wash your hands of what that debate was originally about as if it’s some sort of irrelevance.

You originally replied with “I think anyone looking at a table 5 games in has a wider problem with their analysis of the game”.

To which I replied “Only if that’s their only method of analyzing the game. If, however, it’s used as one piece of information in amongst various other pieces of information (such as watching matches), then it’s an absolutely valid reference point. Are you trying to say the league table should just be disregarded? How many games in does the league table become relevant?”

So I very specifically noted from the outset in my back and forth with you that it was not something I was solely relying on. You continuing to suggest that I am relying on it, rather than taking it into account along with other things like I explicitly said, is just dishonest.

As you just mentioned above, we are equal on points with Spurs. Which is one (just one) of the reasons why I don’t think it makes sense to expect a win against them. Because both our results and performances have been very inconsistent, as have theirs, and so I think that match is a toss up.

 

[Redstain]

Premier League away record:
P41 - W17 - D7 - L17
GF52 - GA65

If you want that to look even more grim, without promoted sides:
P34 - W10 - D7 - L17
GF39 - GA62

An absolute disgrace, it's the spending power of United that has elevated Erik's position with respect to certain results, tactically he's a mid-table level manager who's being over-compensated by a club with vast resources.

INEOS will have United at the top if they get the next managerial appointment correct, club can't move forward under the present coach.

 

[redNATION]

Premier League away record:
P41 - W17 - D7 - L17
GF52 - GA65

If you want that to look even more grim, without promoted sides:
P34 - W10 - D7 - L17
GF39 - GA62

I am staggered Ineos ran a review process and decided keeping Eth was the best outcome. In the modern game long term trends are telling, he’s been poor so long he’s not going to turn it around like Fergie in the 80s/90s. We’ll keep lumbering along with odd win here and there but nothing will impress until the manager is replaced.

 

[Leftback99]

Premier League away record:
P41 - W17 - D7 - L17
GF52 - GA65

If you want that to look even more grim, without promoted sides:
P34 - W10 - D7 - L17
GF39 - GA62

For teams that finished in the top half I think it's:

P18 - W2 - D2 - L14
GF17 - GA49

Counting Palace and Brighton this season:

P20 - W2 - D3 - L15

 

[TrueRed79]

At what point do we sack? Are we waiting until Christmas?

If he loses against Spurs and Villa then I can see him getting sacked. And deservedly as well.

 

[VP89]

You were the one that jumped into that debate with a reply, so you can’t now try and wash your hands of what that debate was originally about as if it’s some sort of irrelevance.

You originally replied with “I think anyone looking at a table 5 games in has a wider problem with their analysis of the game”.

To which I replied “Only if that’s their only method of analyzing the game. If, however, it’s used as one piece of information in amongst various other pieces of information (such as watching matches), then it’s an absolutely valid reference point. Are you trying to say the league table should just be disregarded? How many games in does the league table become relevant?”

So I very specifically noted from the outset in my back and forth with you that it was not something I was solely relying on. You continuing to suggest that I am relying on it, rather than taking it into account along with other things like I explicitly said, is just dishonest.

As you just mentioned above, we are equal on points with Spurs. Which is one (just one) of the reasons why I don’t think it makes sense to expect a win against them. Because both our results and performances have been very inconsistent, as have theirs, and so I think that match is a toss up.

So going to your broader point in that case, you think we should NOT expect to beat Spurs at Old Trafford?