Exactly.
Erik ten Hag | 2024/25
- Thread starter Cheimoon
- Start date
The tactic is clear on both maps; kick it to Amad and let him cook. Mount to his credit dues excellent off the ball work and offers himself as an outlet to everyone. Kicking it to Rashy is another one we try repeatedly.
I disagree. There have way more interplay in the games so far this season than just kicking it out wide to our wingers.
What exactly is ETH style? GK and CB drawing opponents forward to create space, short passing to each others so stats shows that we have more control and less shots at goals. Wingers only taking on defenders occasionally. Few and far in between ball over the top? FB doesn't overlap? No forward in the box so therefore no crosses? As fas as I am concern, he has no idea on how to win a football game. Other coaches already knows how to deal with United but he doesn't know how to deal with them. The first thing that Ineos has done wrongly is to give him a 3 years contract. What on earth does he deserve that??? One FA is 3 years contract so if he wins the Europa League, is Ineos giving him a 5 years contract? What a stupid decision? They should have waited till Christmas or Jan before deciding.
They only took up the option of extending his current contract by 12 months. Unless I've missed something? in which case, we're probably cooked for the foreseeable.
Problem is not winning the game, problem is that we are not able to play our style against teams like Brighton when we had complete squad.
Players clearly dont know the style yet (if ETH has any), nor how to interact with each other on the field. They try to play possession football but the ball is always in our box and I dont feel our defense has much confidence in that style nor I feel our defense seem comfortable with ball in that position. And at the end, results is always same , one of the defensive players will hoof the ball to attacker.
And we see as soon as the match start, non-stop pressing from our attackers , which will exactly last 20 mins. Is it only me or does every one see our attackers(bar Bruno) are already exhausted after first 20 mins ?
If we are close to challenging trophies, we should not be seeing above issues which we have been evident in last season as well.
Except Martinez, I still dont feel any of the players bought by ETH are better than the players they are replacing.
Err, that's exactly what Dalot is told to do. Dalot almost always covers the back post from corners from either side, and until the ball is properly cleared players should continue defending in the positions that they take for the corner.
The fact that all the players who were covering the near post ran out of position (Garnacho straight up the field, Casemiro out and across, Mazraoui across to the right, and to a lesser extent McTominay into the centre) was the issue. And that kind of defensive organisation from a set piece is exactly the kind of thing that the coaching staff should be drilling into the players. Either the players decided to do their own thing, the coaching staff didn't do enough work on it, or if we give the benefit of the doubt then maybe we changed how we defend corners from last season and some players got confused this early in the season.
Rashford did play well in 19/20. It wasn't just goals, his all-round game was very good. It's the one time in his career where he looked on the verge of stepping up to being world class. Even when he returned from the back injury after the Covid shutdown, he wasn't as good on the individual level but his passing and creativity improved to somewhat compensate for it.
Other than that though I do agree. He scored a good amount of goals in 20/21, but his general play was largely shit. Same again in 22/23. It's why it annoys me when people try to say 22/23 was his best season purely because he scored the most goals. It downplays how good he actually was in 19/20.
If not for the FA cup final win, we wouldn't need to have this discussion.
He is lucky and we have given him a chance to prove himself.
To be fair to him, our biggest issue last year was Midfield and so far, there has been no change in personnel, so I don't expect miracles.
Let's see if we can add two quality MF else, I don't think he will last beyond Christmas.
He is lucky and we have given him a chance to prove himself.
To be fair to him, our biggest issue last year was Midfield and so far, there has been no change in personnel, so I don't expect miracles.
Let's see if we can add two quality MF else, I don't think he will last beyond Christmas.
I personally think that his tactics are good. When executed well enough the result was the disallowed goal against Brighton.
His biggest weakness is still his in game management. It's 3 years in and he's still awful at it. He still doesn't understand how to see out a match, or grasp that the league is a marathon, not a sprint. When your team is still finding its feet, still building its confidence, you can be forgiven to play it safe in the last 15 minutes to gain a point.
His biggest weakness is still his in game management. It's 3 years in and he's still awful at it. He still doesn't understand how to see out a match, or grasp that the league is a marathon, not a sprint. When your team is still finding its feet, still building its confidence, you can be forgiven to play it safe in the last 15 minutes to gain a point.
What does the fact that he finished 8th with a negative GD mean then?
Anyone could have won that game. I highly doubt he coaches them to defend like they did in the last minutes when they scored. Dalot being the full back should have been close to that defender.
yeah, but this is happening too last season. If he doesn't coach them like that then whatever he's coaching them is not working
we lost a Ballon d'Or winner in the past, with Bebe class replacement, and still dominated the League and Champions League.
Now every season, it seems like the manager always need 1 more player to just make it to top 4.
Now every season, it seems like the manager always need 1 more player to just make it to top 4.
Last season we won 5 PL games by more than one goal....for a bit of context, Villa won 12.
Even when we win, we're scrappy and unconvincing.
I go back to a point I made several times last season...EtH has been in charge for 78 PL games...how many have been objectively "good" performances resulting in comfortable wins? I can't think of many at all, it's a 'fingers of one hands job to count them.
By contrast, how many times have we been humiliated? I can think of several right off the top of my head.
Even when we win, we're scrappy and unconvincing.
I go back to a point I made several times last season...EtH has been in charge for 78 PL games...how many have been objectively "good" performances resulting in comfortable wins? I can't think of many at all, it's a 'fingers of one hands job to count them.
By contrast, how many times have we been humiliated? I can think of several right off the top of my head.
This.
Even in his first season when we finished 3rd, we hardly had more than 5 games where we actually played fantastic football. Most of the wins were either scrappy, tight, or won by individual moments of brilliance.
Two of our best games in that first season were actually both draws. One against Spurs, and one against Barca. We played some really nice football in both those matches, yet only managed to draw.
And the less said about last season, the better.
Whenever 'winning top four' became a priority because of the need of 'CL money'. We then use this CL money to 'win top four' again. All other priorities disposable.
Want to be city or Liverpool? We need to challenge on all fronts to do so.
Not many glorious seasons had 'fantastic football over five matches'. Even the Treble season had scrappy one-nil matches away to mighty Charlton and Coventry.
Where we finish is important, sure, as is performance, but we should not disregard context. Last season was horrible but was in the midst of a desperate injury crisis and it ended with a trophy.
Results like the below should be once in a tenure results...i.e. they can happen once and we'll accept it as a freak...we now seem to accept them as "part of the process".
Brentford 0-4
Palace 0-4
City 6-3 (was 6-1 until final 2-mins)
Liverpool 0-7
Sevilla 0-3
Add to that the farcical late goals...
"Since 2022-23, United have lost more Premier League games thanks to goals scored in the 90th minute and beyond than any other side (6); they'd only lost two such games in the first 30 campaigns in the competition combined.
And that's just losses...doesn't count points tossed away to draws.
Lest we forget...we also tossed away a 3-0 lead vs a Championship side in the cup semi-final and if that CFs boots were a size smaller would have been dumped out in the final minute.
It's unacceptable, it really is. There's a strong argument to say EtH is our worst-ever PL manager and yet for some reason he's largely avoided the scrutiny OGS, Jose, LvG and Moyes faced, even though their situation RE : football structure was a million times worse under Woodward.
Ten Hag, in my opinion, has been kept on as the club goes through its football restructuring.
The things he has done well, such as bringing our youngsters up to standard will continue.
He has also done well in getting more out of players such as Maguire.
And with all the change going on around him, he's a constant
What he hasn't done well with is defence and attack as witnessed by goals scored and goals conceded.
The refresh in coaching staff is there to address this. As are the new playing recruits.
As far as I can see, he's been given all the support required to succeed and anything short of a successful season and he's gone
The things he has done well, such as bringing our youngsters up to standard will continue.
He has also done well in getting more out of players such as Maguire.
And with all the change going on around him, he's a constant
What he hasn't done well with is defence and attack as witnessed by goals scored and goals conceded.
The refresh in coaching staff is there to address this. As are the new playing recruits.
As far as I can see, he's been given all the support required to succeed and anything short of a successful season and he's gone
Agreed, wouldn't be surprised that the decision to keep it was just to get their sticks in a row.
I don't know who would be stupid enough to argue EtH is the worst post-Fergie manager, especially over David Moyes, who inherited Fergie's champions and took them to seventh.
The idea he has 'largely avoided scrutiny' is a frankly insane statement to make. Bonkers, even with relationship to his predecessors.
The 'anti-EtH' think along the same lines as ABUs. A few examples:
- Whenever EtH wins a trophy, or even a match, it's because he is lucky. When he loses it's 'reality'.
- The trophy we have won is not good enough. Top four should be our priority. If top four is secured, it's not good enough, we should be winning trophies. When top four and a trophy is secured, next season will determine if we truly deserved it.
- Losing by more than two goals is remembered years later, as 'proof', no matter the context.
- If players are injured, it's no excuse or even a reason. He has to 'deal with it' no matter the volume. Besides, it's his coaching staff which is to blame, anyway, even though 'every club gets them'.
- The previous manager, who, at the time was hounded and ridiculed, is to be re-evaluated as 'building something'.
- There is no 'clear football plan', even though what such a term actually means is completely arbitrary.
- Past successes are the 'real way' of doing things. We just got lucky this time. Even though those past successes were, at the time, considered inferior to the 'real' successes of their past.
- When a player is at United, he has it 'coached out of him'. Whenever they leave and string two passes together, they've suddenly improved immeasurably, and we should never have let them go.
- Those demanding the manager sacked will not offer the name of the next candidate, but will detail 'what is needed' without advising what candidate can or will fulfil the criteria.
I agree he'll be clipped if there's no trophies or significant improvement in league position.
My concern is the summer pursuit of a new manager. Some of the names considered were between farcical and underwhelming.
There has been zero improvement in candidate, has there? No plausible replacement has emerged since the aborted process.
We could be looking at Potter, or even worse a pliant Southgate type 'positive vibes' eejit whose qualification extends to 'mates with Dan'.
Last edited:
It`s a bit concerning that we seem to be having the same discussions as the start of last season, when the set up clearly wasn`t working.
Once again this season we have started with one set up and changed it at half time because it doesn`t work.
Third season in you would think we would have one solid set up/clear way of playing regardless of who the players are.
He needs to stop messing about changing CB`s and just pick who is going to play...and drop Rashford.
Once again this season we have started with one set up and changed it at half time because it doesn`t work.
Third season in you would think we would have one solid set up/clear way of playing regardless of who the players are.
He needs to stop messing about changing CB`s and just pick who is going to play...and drop Rashford.
With Ugarte coming, he has absolutely nothing left. Not a single excuse. All eyes on him now.
For those who couldn’t stop comparing his first two seasons with Klopp and Arteta’s records. Now we are in EtH’s third season and by that point those two managers were flying and created the exact team they wanted.
We are in EtH’s third season and he still seems to have no clue about his teams long term identity. For now we’re a pressing team with Bruno and Mount playing up top but will that stay the same once we inevitably bring our striker back into the team. Will we even have the stamina to do this all game and not tire after half time as usual.
The man has zero excuses this season. Inexplicably we even let him sign more ex-players and players with a Dutch background. The final version of his football will be seen this season and if it’s still shite then that is all he has to offer. There can be nothing about him needing one more year or needing to bring more players to suit his style, those were all excuses for year one and two.
Personally, I already know how it will end, he’s not good enough.
We are in EtH’s third season and he still seems to have no clue about his teams long term identity. For now we’re a pressing team with Bruno and Mount playing up top but will that stay the same once we inevitably bring our striker back into the team. Will we even have the stamina to do this all game and not tire after half time as usual.
The man has zero excuses this season. Inexplicably we even let him sign more ex-players and players with a Dutch background. The final version of his football will be seen this season and if it’s still shite then that is all he has to offer. There can be nothing about him needing one more year or needing to bring more players to suit his style, those were all excuses for year one and two.
Personally, I already know how it will end, he’s not good enough.
Quite a specialist player too.
I wonder if the next guy in charge would want him.
His 13th player. Add Mainoo, Garnacho, Collyer and Amad who I would say are 'his' players. Dalot, Shaw, Bruno and Rashford some of his best players. That's 21 players.
The squad is yours now, third year no excuses.
The squad is yours now, third year no excuses.
Does the 13 include loans? Like Weghorst and Amrabat?
No. Martinez, Casemiro, Malacia, Eriksen, Antony, Onana, Hojlund, Mount, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Zirzkee, Ugarte. I guess would be 14 with Evans.
Last edited:
Everyone makes mistake. 38 matches are not big enough of a sample size. Also he did well in the first 38 matches. And he won 2 trophies. You dont think at least that evens things out? Hasnt he earned enough credit to last until Christmas? And did he have any say in any of the transfers this and the previous window, with the exception of Onana?
Still not really sure what the long term plan is for our shape. Mount, Zirkzee, Ugarte, Hojlund are his big investments (we all know Antony is a dud) but getting them on the pitch with Mainoo, Bruno, Garna and 1 of Amad/Rashford doesn't seem an obvious shape
I presume we're going to continue with the box/diamond in the middle but don't feel that gets enough of our forwards on the pitch, and utd without proper width just feels wrong to my old arse
I hope he has it figured out - still want him to succeed
I presume we're going to continue with the box/diamond in the middle but don't feel that gets enough of our forwards on the pitch, and utd without proper width just feels wrong to my old arse
I hope he has it figured out - still want him to succeed
It’s been hard to judge because we usually have no discernible style, but based on what we’ve seen, how defensive / attacking a coach do you all think ETH is? Usually with attacking coaches from what I see, their tactical setup is extremely obvious to the naked eye - Ange, Bielsa, possibly Maresca already, whereas with the more defensive or cautious ones, the changes are harder to spot. ETH strikes me as part of the latter.
Generally when a new manager comes in, I always think they should have around 3 summer windows to rebuild - if a team is in need of rebuild of course. I think Erik has been fairly backed now, and its time to deliver or part ways. I want him to deliver obviously, I like him, but no more excuses now.
Onana, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Martinez, Casemiro, Ugarte, Mount, Antony, Zirkzee, Hojlund.
Thats a starting xi of just ten hag players, then you can add academy players who emerged like garnacho and mainoo, and you almost have an entire squad of 'ten hag' players.
It's time now, without excuses.
Onana, Mazraoui, De Ligt, Yoro, Martinez, Casemiro, Ugarte, Mount, Antony, Zirkzee, Hojlund.
Thats a starting xi of just ten hag players, then you can add academy players who emerged like garnacho and mainoo, and you almost have an entire squad of 'ten hag' players.
It's time now, without excuses.
I rate our squad now. I think the last two seasons the squad and injuries hurt us. No excuses now. Failure is on him.
It's difficult to figure out who we were looking at officially and who the press said we were interested in this summer - bar a few candidates
Next summer, we should know by April whether we stick or twist and can get the cogs moving ahead of time
It's a decent summer of transfers, but only if we start seeing improvement on the pitch. Zirkzee, Ugarte, De Ligt and Mazraoui aren't exactly transfers of the absolute highest profile, but hopefully they're smart enough for us to progress under this manager in his third season now. This is the final throw of the dice for him and his coaching staff.
I think after the initial 3/4 games we will revert to a 4231 with Ugarte mainoo and Bruno being the midfield 3 mainly
If we really wanted to fit as many of them in as possible only a 3 back would really work:
‐--------------Onana
De Light-Maguire-Martinez
Maz-Casemiro-Ugarte-Dalot
----------------Bruno
--------Hojlund-Zirkzee
For the big games with Yoro replacing Maguire/De Light moving centrally, Shaw replacing Dalot.
For the smaller games we should use the 4-2-3-1 but with underperformers it is hard to pick a fluid team without seeing Ten Hags preferred style of play
He has been backed way more than any other manager since Fergie now. We have bought better players in than we have let go of. He now needs to coach and direct the team how to play better than ever. It’s all on him and he needs to cut the bullshit explanations out after games when it doesn’t work.
He won’t drop Mainoo. Casemiro will be the one dropped, considering they wanted him to leave