Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed

[Redfrog]

That's the reality - the League season is over. Its just a case of whether we finish top half or not. Sure we might win a cup, but the league' gone. And I'm not talking about top four here. Seventh is realistically the highest we'll finish with EtH at the helm. But even that would require a drastic upturn in form.

I a not denying the fact we will not be in top 4 even if we sack him. But we are the worst we have ever been,

Breaking news. Man works after being back from vacation.

A great question to which I don't know the answer, but I do have a few theories.

Fear of the unknown. Part of the fanbase is worried about starting from scratch with a new manager. This is not an unreasonable concern. It is probable that whoever we were to bring in would require 2-3 years to rebuild the squad as he wishes and because we've just been through that, with disastrous results, many of us are concerned that it could all play out as woefully under this manager as it has under the current manager.

Patience is deemed to be a virtue. Part of the fanbase sees something in ETH that warrants hope. I don't share that hope but I do not view those who hold out hope for ETH as being irrational. We have the Arteta experience to look to and we have the Ferguson experience to look to as well.

The players are the problem. This isn't much of argument as ETH has chosen the players, but the argument can be made that the players have let ETH down, not ETH letting the players down.

Arteta’s argument doesn’t hold. They have been in constant progress since he is at Arsenal. We have been worse and worse since 20 months in the league. Finishing 3rd then 8th and now on course to do even worse.
Can someone see progress in our games, in our style of play ?
If that’s not the case, after spending so much and 2 seasons, it’s hope and nothing else.

Patience is a virtue right, but without context it means nothing.
Do you wait a train that is already gone ? Would it be a virtue or just deluded ?

« Players having let down the manager » is just always the same argument. Most of the players are ETH buys. If they see something is not working, they lose the belief, it’s only human. And after 20 months of the same inept tactics, they are probably mentally rinsed.
Maybe ETH have let the players down by trying to playing his tactics no matter what instead of adapting to the league and to the strengths of our players.

 

[Yagami]

Including Jon Snow?

Never forget that Jon Snow is a United fan. He has the clubs best interests at heart.

 

[julianfr]

Fully agree. That's what we are all hoping. If it does, can't wait to see the posts on this thread! ha

There is no "sudden click". It's a process. It's naive to think it's as simple as flipping a switch.

More importantly ETH said "trust the process" not "trust the click". That alone is all I need to know that it's gradual.

 

[Sarni]

I a not denying the fact we will not be in top 4 even if we sack him. But we are the worst we have ever been,
Arteta’s argument doesn’t hold. They have been in constant progress since he is at Arsenal. We have been worse and worse since 20 months in the league. Finishing 3rd then 8th and now on course to do even worse.
Can someone see progress in our games, in our style of play ?
If that’s not the case, after spending so much and 2 seasons, it’s hope and nothing else.

Patience is a virtue right, but without context it means nothing.
Do you wait a train that is already gone ? Would it be a virtue or just deluded ?

« Players having let down the manager » is just always the same argument. Most of the players are ETH buys. If they see something is not working, they lose the belief, it’s only human. And after 20 months of the same inept tactics, they are probably mentally rinsed.
Maybe ETH have let the players down by trying to playing his tactics no matter what instead of adapting to the league and to the strengths of our players.

Arteta comparison has really become annoying by now (Klopp comparison was tedious from day one as he was great at Liverpool from the beginning). Even if we admit that the process was quite slow under Arteta, there was year on year improvement in most aspects of play - their defence got good in first season, attack improved in second season to a point where both of them combined could carry them to 5th and very close to CL qualification, and third full season already resulted in title challenge.

There has been no improvement at United since ETH's arrival. The average performance now if anything is worse than the average performance in 22-23 was, and by quite a margin as well. We might start showing some improvement from here but that's mainly because we've sunk so low that even becoming a steadfast mid-table team would represent a marked improvement.

 

[Cloud7]

Utter nonsense to say the season is over league wise in the middle of October. This fanbase is broken and weird.

See that's the thing. The season is far from being over, if we made a change now that can positively influence things. If ETH stays it's not unreasonable to say the league is over, because it's hard to see it getting much better

 

[stevoc]

What would be a satisfactory “turn around” for you guys?

It’s the guy’s 3rd year and the amount of time and money invested - we should be hovering around 3rd/4th whilst playing something. The type of turn around he’d need to make that happen from now til end of the season would have to be incredible. At best, this will be another 6th/7th placed season and that’s being super optimistic - there are some really good teams in the league - you just need to decide if you’d be happy with that

What any United fan would ideally want and what would constitute a turn around from the abject shite Ten Hag's served up for the last 14 months aren't necessarily the same thing. If he managed to finish 6th from the perspective of where we've started it would be an objective improvement but it's still no where near good enough.

I believe the club shold get rid of him at the first opportunity, I was hoping that would have been this break. But I've had a feeling for weeks they won't pull the trigger until November/December.

 

[Leftback99]

Utter nonsense to say the season is over league wise in the middle of October. This fanbase is broken and weird.

If they are sticking with Ten Hag it's almost certainly over top 4 wise.

You'll find very few examples of a manager performing like a bottom 3rd side for over a year and turning it round to be a top 4 side mid season.

 

[stevoc]

There is no "sudden click". It's a process. It's naive to think it's as simple as flipping a switch.

More importantly ETH said "trust the process" not "trust the click". That alone is all I need to know that it's gradual.

To be fair you are bang on here, good observation.

We have indeed got gradualy worse over the course of Ten Hag's time here.

 

[sepulturite]

Some of you guys would have had Fergie hung drawn and quartered back in the day. 85% of the season left but if can't get us a trophy or CL football this season he can be relieved of his duties but until then give the man a break.

Oh Frank don't you have an electrical fuse box you need to be grabbing right about now??

 

[romufc]

If they are sticking with Ten Hag it's almost certainly over top 4 wise.

You'll find very few examples of a manager performing like a bottom 3rd side for over a year and turning it round to be a top 4 side mid season.

The league is where it counts, the cup runs are good but lets be honest, as fans you want to see a good league campaign. At least where you go into games with confidence, looking forward to football matches on the weekend.

We are not writing the season of in terms of trophies because we may still be in the run in for one, but under Ten Hag, does anyone look forward to games?

I mean we can barely say with confidence we will beat Brentford. When we go into games against the top half, we think this team will get battered, let alone the top 4.

Ten Hag is the reason for such doom and gloom and the next few games is when INEOS will realise they should have pulled the trigger.

V Spurs down to 10 men the crowd tried to help the team in the 2nd half by supporting, chanting, then we had 2 away games so there was no way of fans showing their discourse. I can guarantee, if the Brentford performance is anything like the last 5, there will be a massive change in match going fans reactions.

 

[Skills]

The league is where it counts, the cup runs are good but lets be honest, as fans you want to see a good league campaign. At least where you go into games with confidence, looking forward to football matches on the weekend.

We are not writing the season of in terms of trophies because we may still be in the run in for one, but under Ten Hag, does anyone look forward to games?

I mean we can barely say with confidence we will beat Brentford. When we go into games against the top half, we think this team will get battered, let alone the top 4.

Ten Hag is the reason for such doom and gloom and the next few games is when INEOS will realise they should have pulled the trigger.

V Spurs down to 10 men the crowd tried to help the team in the 2nd half by supporting, chanting, then we had 2 away games so there was no way of fans showing their discourse. I can guarantee, if the Brentford performance is anything like the last 5, there will be a massive change in match going fans reactions.

You have more chance of teaching a dog calculus.

Our fanbase is a lost cause.

 

[Judas]

If they are sticking with Ten Hag it's almost certainly over top 4 wise.

You'll find very few examples of a manager performing like a bottom 3rd side for over a year and turning it round to be a top 4 side mid season.

See that's the thing. The season is far from being over, if we made a change now that can positively influence things. If ETH stays it's not unreasonable to say the league is over, because it's hard to see it getting much better

Well yes if we stick with Ten Hag for another few months we will have a lot less to play for in the league, because we're going nowhere under him. Get rid of him in the next month though, plenty of time to rescue the season somewhat.

 

[Leftback99]

Well yes if we stick with Ten Hag for another few months we will have a lot less to play for in the league, because we're going nowhere under him. Get rid of him in the next month though, plenty of time to rescue the season somewhat.

I think there will be far too much ground to make up by the next break.

 

[troylocker]

Any news or leaks yet?

I don't know if I can manage another 3-4 weeks of watching us setting roots at bottom half of the table.

 

[AarhusUnited]

The league is where it counts, the cup runs are good but lets be honest, as fans you want to see a good league campaign. At least where you go into games with confidence, looking forward to football matches on the weekend.

We are not writing the season of in terms of trophies because we may still be in the run in for one, but under Ten Hag, does anyone look forward to games?

I mean we can barely say with confidence we will beat Brentford. When we go into games against the top half, we think this team will get battered, let alone the top 4.

Ten Hag is the reason for such doom and gloom and the next few games is when INEOS will realise they should have pulled the trigger.

V Spurs down to 10 men the crowd tried to help the team in the 2nd half by supporting, chanting, then we had 2 away games so there was no way of fans showing their discourse. I can guarantee, if the Brentford performance is anything like the last 5, there will be a massive change in match going fans reactions.

Yes i always look forward to United games, not to watch ETH or any of the players, but to watch United and the hope that today is the day it all turn good.. I know it wont happend, but i live for the hope.. I hope the days with ETH is soon over, so i can hope for something better

 

[laughtersassassin]

When you really have time to think about it it's insane he is still here.

Basically a public statement saying draws are considered a great result for us.

 

[Dec9003]

I see that enough time has passed since the latest disasters, for the apologists to creep back in with the ' trust the process' and 'best of a bad bunch' posts.

This happens every international break. It's a great opportunity for the club to wait out pressure, especially since we didn't lose either of our last matches. It's expected that with players back and time with the new signings a style of play, and better results will develop. The problem for most of us is that we can remember how poor last season was as well, so to most the start of this season is more proof that last season wasn't an anomaly but our true level with this manager. It's incredibly frustrating, especially seeing all the negative records under ETH.

 

[Leftback99]

So they've sacked SAF instead.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

It’s looking like he can get 6th or 7th and still keep his job

 

[Remember the geese]

It’s looking like he can get 6th or 7th and still keep his job

I don't think that is the case at all.

 

[romufc]

It’s looking like he can get 6th or 7th and still keep his job

Aiming for 7th for Ten Hag is the same as Newcastle or Chelsea aiming for the title. Only in his wildest dream he can achieve that. I cannot see how we finish in the top half with Ten Hag in charge.

 

[Robbie Boy]

This whole situation is utterly bizarre.

 

[AneRu]

I dunno mate. I guess that I believe the organization has to endure. The mentality that SAF set was uncompromising. Rio had talked about that. SAF brought in players like Keano and Stam and others who amplified that message. I just can’t see how wasting time by allowing the substandard elements to remain is a path to a major trophy. How can you allow a shit manager to stay, when shit performances get your top players benched??? It sends the wrong message. We are Manchester fecking United. Top 4 is the bare minimum, and you need a trophy to boot. We spend more than almost any club, on average, I just don’t see how anything less is acceptable.

SAF set the standard. He’s not here anymore. The owners have to set it, just like they do at Bayern, Real, Barca (however fecked up it is), PSG and Juventus.

I am really bummed at the bureaucracy that INEOS has installed. Management by committee tends to be slow and ponderous with people who are waiting to be stabbed in the back and therefore cautious. They don’t want to get sacked and reluctant to take big swings and make big moves.

There is just too many cooks and too many committees to ever get accountability and without accountability there is no seriousness. Say Ashworth and Berrada say sack whilst Wilcox and Brailsford say keep and there is a trophy grabbed from City in between, would the club be decisive?

We went from no structure to bloated and management by committee is never good. We need Ashworth to be the only football man with a voice on the board, all other directors must feed into him and it's up to him to decide and be judged by his decisions.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

 

[Bestie07]

Apart from his tactics, which clearly don't work, the guy has no eye for a talent.

 

[UnsungHero]

Not going to be Tuchel to save us then, seems like he's getting the England job.

 

[astracrazy]

This is sort of becoming a tragic game now after every international break. Perhaps we should have it included in the forum on the right hand side. I'd be surprised if we get move than 3 wins.

 

[Pexbo]

5

 

[hobbers]

Not going to be Tuchel to save us then, seems like he's getting the England job.

Another smackdown on all the fools, including the fools on the board, who thought "lets try to limp on to christmas - we wont miss out on anything and ETH might turn it around"

Well how's the opportunity cost of missing out on a top class, CL-winning instant replacement. They can chew on that when Ten Hag is sacked in a few weeks and we're flipping a coin between Ruud and Carrick.

 

[Cassidy]

Another smackdown on all the fools, including the fools on the board, who thought "nah lets try to limp on to christmas - we wont miss out on anything and ETH might turn it around"

Well how's the opportunity cost of missing out on a top class, CL-winning instant replacement.

We obviously didn’t want him and rightly so

 

[hobbers]

We obviously didn’t want him and rightly so

Our owner obviously did.

But sure, lets defer to some of the other people on the board who must have championed sticking with Hag, they seem to have sound judgement.

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Not confident of any, but I will go with 2 - We should be beating Leicester both times.

In Europe we can't expect anything under EtH, we'll be lucky to get 2 draws there.

 

[Shark]

Apart from his tactics, which clearly don't work, the guy has no eye for a talent.

Is he efficient at anything? Serious question. Even Moyes was efficient at certain things at this level, he could do the basics that were required to get results in this league against sub bar opposition, with the right resources.

 

[Zed 101]

None and that is me being optimistic, if it was possible to be worse I would vote for that

 

[Cassidy]

Our owner obviously did.

But sure, lets defer to some of the other people on the board who must have championed sticking with Hag, they seem to have sound judgement.

Good thing our owner is not the decision maker. We’ll get a new manager, one that is actually the right fit and not Sir Jims mate

 

[Shark]

Looking at this fixture list is just more agonizing than anything. We could have had a clean slate, to really try and go on a run and salvage the season.

 

[Frank Grimes]

None and that is me being optimistic, if it was possible to be worse I would vote for that

You don't sound like you're being optimistic.

 

[hobbers]

Is he efficient at anything? Serious question. Even Moyes was efficient at certain things at this level, he could do the basics that were required to get results in this league against sub bar opposition, with the right resources.

Motivation - no. Communication - no. Scouting players and assessing talent - no. In game management - no. Tactical set up - no. Coaching - no.

Eroding expectations, conning ultra-naive fans and getting rewarded for failure - world class

Good thing our owner is not the decision maker. We’ll get a new manager, one that is actually the right fit and not Sir Jims mate

Yeah hopefully we get one of Brailsford and Ashworths mates instead. Southgate or Potter, take your pick.

 

[RedRocket9908]

If we keep ETH then the only wins I can see us getting from our next 7 is Leicester at home in the League Cup (probably on pens) and a scrappy 1-0 against PAOK at home in the Europa.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

Our fanbase is a lost cause.

Bit of a Caf meme this - feels like a massive nothing statement (to me).

We have a huge fan base, with thousands of different view points on any given matter. In what way is that fan base a lost cause?

What is it that the majority are supposed to be doing that people think they’re not? Interested in the views of those who think this to be a thing