Erik ten Hag | 2024/25 | Votes can now be changed

[Revan]

Of course that opinion is fine. I just think after 11 years of pure mediocrity (and that's understating it) a quick fix was pretty much impossible.

I do not think that even with SAF as manager, Pep as his assistant, and Klopp as mascot, we would have challenged for title this season. But some decent football, and a comfortable top 8 finish was the least we should get under any manager who is not completely awful.

Instead, we are closer to the bottom than the top in both EPL and Europa League, and are lucky to be so. We have been outplayed by pretty much every other team except a relegation fodder and a lower league club. At some stage, it is probably fine to say enough is enough, and waste some bits in the Internet.

 

[moses]

What are you on about?

There is a very large amount of data available to the public which fans have repeatedly used to demonstrate that we performing very poorly under Ten Hag.

What is this magical secret data that only the club has access to which confounds all of that?

Ok, tell me what was said at the meeting?

 

[welshwingwizard]

I don't think INEOS truly understands the situation if they are taking this long.

Our fanbase has a fundamental problem, in that, when it comes to managers, due to our history of success with SAF, we are naturally passive as a group. A lot of our fans feel its disrespectful to be vocal in advocating for the sacking of a manager, no matter how bad they are. Ours fans and pundits who represent them, will blame every and anyone, before pointing fingers at the manager, this includes the owners.

Despite the feelings of our fans, I have never bought into the notion that the dealings of the Glazers had as much impact, outside of their appointments, on the success of our team on the pitch as people would like to state. Finances were usually made available and the managers always had a big say in who we hired and didn't. What's happened now is that we've understood as a club that manager's can't be trusted with the additional responsibilities that we placed on them, however this doesn't mean that a more serious manager couldn't have assumed those duties and performed well.

More than anythings, our play on the pitch, has been terrible over the decade. In that decade, we've played mostly teams that have inferior squads to us, yet, even in these games, our style of play and patterns were usually non-existant. Good managers, who did not have the backing in the transfer market, would have been able to showcase their quality in these games against inferior competition. An example of this is Arsenal under Wenger. They could beat Everton 5-0 away from home, but didn't have the quality to go toe to toe against the likes of Bayern or Man City. None of our managers have shown that type of quality, yet as a fanbase, we've always given them the time, space, money and support against players to ensure that success should have been feasible. I do not believe that these managers needed such a sophisticated layer of management above them to play decent football on the pitch. That was always just another excuse that fans and the club used to mask managerial failure.

I'm saying this to say, INEOS are going to be the next target of the fans' ire if they don't act fast, even if they sack ETH. The fans have been conditioned to act like this, and part of INEOS' job is to ensure that they make proactive moves to ensure the success of the club. As a club, we need them to be able to make hard decisions, and push us to to modernity, both within the club and with our expectations of managers and players. The media has already shown their willingness to do this by suggesting they hung ETH to dry by meeting other managers in the summer. That's simply a taste of how unfairly they will be blamed if they don't make strong active decisions.

Great post. My feelings too.

 

[moses]

Haha, so tell it straight instead of using false arguments.
But you’re right, ETH is getting under my skin. I should stop here.

What false argument? I've barely said anything.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

So fans can’t celebrate a win against local rivals, in a cup final?

Fans should celebrate any win, let alone a win in a cup final vs local rival.

On the other hand, professional football execs should not consider keeping a manager who's team results in the league and CL were horrible simply because of cup win.

 

[Leftback99]

Are you serious? You think you have access to all the significant data? Wow. So you don't see a need for those expensive executives around the place. That explains a lot.

Yes I'm serious. Like what? Give an example of a piece of data that would be so significant in keeping him.

 

[Redfrog]

What false argument? I've barely said anything.

You said there is hidden data that can explain why we are keeping him.

 

[moses]

Yes I'm serious. Like what? Give an example of a piece of data that would be so significant in keeping him.

You want me to tell you what the information it is that we don't know.

You don't see the difficulty there?

 

[moses]

You said there is hidden data that can explain why we are keeping him.

I didn't say hidden. More hysteria. This is not a James Bond film. I said the people running the club, (any club, or business) would have more data than those not working there or privy to the meetings.

 

[pocco]

Fair enough, mate. What's the best case scenario from here onwards if Ten Hag survives in your opinion?

I just can't see him taking it lying down. Look at his comments about "if they don't want me then I'll go and win trophies elsewhere". He's got the attitude that he's too good to be sacked. That's why I can't see it going well if they tried to go down that route.

Best case scenario for getting rid? I thought he'd go this week, it just makes the most sense. If he survived this then the best case scenario I would say is the summer. But, I could see fans flip flopping about on what they want between then, he might get another league cup with an easy run or something like that. I think there's even a chance they keep him for the duration of his contract, in the belief he'll win us the league in a few years. They might be too scared to take a chance on a risky appointment and stick with him by default. If they think another Fergie or Pep will fall into their laps then I think they're mistaken.

Basically, it'll be the summer at the earliest, but even a slight whimper of life from him, or no generational talent level managers, and they'll probably just stick with him in the belief that Woodward was the problem but their mere presence will fix everything.

 

[welshwingwizard]

Are you serious? You think you have access to all the significant data? Wow. So you don't see a need for those expensive executives around the place. That explains a lot.

Out of interest, what sort of data are you suggesting exists which would make a case for keeping Ten Hag. Because despite you inference there is quite a lot of publicly available data which only suggests we are dire under his management.

 

[Leftback99]

You want me to tell you what the information it is that we don't know.

You don't see the difficulty there?

No I'm asking you to give any example of something significant that would override all the performance data. You can't.

 

[moses]

No I'm asking you to give any example of something significant that would override all the perfromance data. You can't.

Jesus I can't actually believe you all think you know everything.

What did they decide was ok for this season? What was the managers brief? What is their two year plan?

 

[moses]

Out of interest, what sort of data are you suggesting exists which would make a case for keeping Ten Hag. Because despite you inference there is quite a lot of publicly available data which only suggests we are dire under his management.

There is almost no data available, just the appalling football.

Do none of you have jobs?

Are you the sort of people who argue with tradesmen and doctors?

 

[Zumbi]

Ok, tell me what was said at the meeting?

What a nonsense reply. Stop trying to deflect from the fact that you made a false claim that posters were using zero data.

Neither of us know what was said at the meeting, but one thing we do know is that there is a large amount of publicly available data which shows us performing historically badly under Ten Hag’s management, and that data has been repeatedly used by posters here.

So again, what data do you imagine the owners have access to that outweighs all of that?

 

[Redfrog]

I didn't say hidden. More hysteria. This is not a James Bond film. I said the people running the club, (any club, or business) would have more data than those not working there or privy to the meetings.

You don’t need more data the the table of this and last year to see our manager is sh*t to be honest. And it’s even worse when you watch our games.

 

[Suv666]

Just don’t see the point of dragging the inevitable. I don’t see this mythical manager they are on the hunt for emerging anytime soon. Who are they waiting for anyway?

Not gonna lie this whole Ten Hag debacle has been embarrassing stuff for INEOS, it was highly probable we’ll be in the situation we are right now last season, yet they decided to extend. Amateur hour really.

So much negativity and it’s barely been 10 games. It’s mad the way this club operates.

 

[GreatDane]

Not sacking him was a small club reaction, like beating city is a big deal in itself.
It’s not. Being consistent in the league and competing regularly for big trophies is.

It's the same when people say that losing to Liverpool earlier was expected.
No it fecking wasn't, not in his third season and 600 million spend, that's just pathetic.

 

[moses]

What a nonsense reply. Atop trying to deflect form the fact that you made a false claim that posters were using zero data.

Neither of us know what was said at the meeting, but one thing we do know is that there is a large amount of publicly available data which shows us performing historically badly under Ten Hag’s management, and that data has been repeatedly used by posters here.

So again, what data do you imagine the owners have access to that outweighs all of that?

fecking hell I give up. You really think you have as much information as the owners? Despite admitting you have no idea what was said at the monthly catch up. I'm not sure I said zero data but we are not privy to their thoughts or plans.

If that meeting doesn't fit your criteria for things you don't know then I can't help you.

 

[TsuWave]

Edit - already posted

 

[pocco]

I don't know what to make of that. He's always been well connected at the club but now they don't even want to talk to him about this meeting? Not even backing him?

I've no doubt he's staying, but this approach just seems nonsensical. Do they not realise they're just stoking the flames. To firstly tell him that he'll be here for the next two games, a pretty ominous statement itself, but to then refuse to add any further clarification after the fact? It's all a bit bewildering really.

 

[Zumbi]

fecking hell I give up. You really think you have as much information as the owners? Despite admitting you have no idea what was said at the monthly catch up. I'm not sure I said zero data but we are not privy to their thoughts or plans.

If that meeting doesn't fit your criteria for things you don't know then I can't help you.

I didn’t claim that.

You claimed posters were using zero data. That is false. Why did you claim something that is untrue?

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

You want me to tell you what the information it is that we don't know.

You don't see the difficulty there?

I think there are a myriad of reasons why they haven't said anything or even sacked EtH, it could be financial limits, or availability of a replacement, or maybe an ongoing negotiation with a replacement, or anything else really.

But, only on whether to keep or sack Ten Hag, there is no reason to keep Ten Hag, the only data that matters is performances on the pitch and results, such data is already in the public domain and that's the only data that matters, there is no secret data that they have that isn't in the public domain regarding sacking ten Hag.

 

[Zumbi]

Also what good does hysterical panic on our part do? We've had weeks of posters on a loop of outrage with zero data. The match going fans, the owners, the players, the new management, the manager. Zero data encourages scattergun hysteria.

 

[moses]

I didn’t claim that.

You claimed posters were using zero data. That is false. Why did you claim something that is untrue?

You're clutching a straws. There is data we have zero access to. You can disagree but stop trying to frame it like I'm lying.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I don't know why anybody was expecting the board meeting to change anything. Sir Jim clearly said

“I like Erik, I think he’s a very good coach but at the end of the day it’s not my call.” “It’s the management team that’s running Manchester United that have to decide how we best run the team in many different respects,” said Ratcliffe. “But that team that’s running Manchester United has only been together since June or July. They weren’t there in January, February, March or April – Omar, Dan – they only arrived in July.”

He quite clearly said that he would have no part to make in the decision. If he had no part in the decision, how could it be decided by a board meeting he had a vote on?

 

[LawCharltonBest]

I don't know what to make of that. He's always been well connected at the club but now they don't even want to talk to him about this meeting? Not even backing him?

I've no doubt he's staying, but this approach just seems nonsensical. Do they not realise they're just stoking the flames. To firstly tell him that he'll be here for the next two games, a pretty ominous statement itself, but to then refuse to add any further clarification after the fact? It's all a bit bewildering really.

With all that in the summer you would think that - if they’re set on keeping him - they would be very quick to brief their backing for Ten Hag

With that, I assume he isn’t safe

But at the same time I would have expected some more flames by now if he was going

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[FrankDrebin]

I guess if they're sticking with Erik they'd at least say so when questioned...you'd think.

 

[Redfrog]

There is almost no data available, just the appalling football.

Do none of you have jobs?

Are you the sort of people who argue with tradesmen and doctors?

No I don’t argue with my doctor.

But don’t reverse the argument. You are saying us to don’t trust what we have under our eyes like the executives are all doing a great job because they are where they are.

So Woodward was doing a great job because he had a big team of analysts and football experts ?

By the way, do you know a bad doctor can exist ? Knowledge don’t make people infallible, you need to have logic and common sense to use it wisely.

 

[Leftback99]

Jesus I can't actually believe you all think you know everything.

What did they decide was ok for this season? What was the managers brief? What is their two year plan?

So you're saying potentially INEOS have said it's acceptable to carry on performing like a bottom half side all season? Fair enough.

Even more concerning if so. Once mediocrity it accepted by the board it will become the norm.

 

[Redfrog]

I guess if they're sticking with Erik they'd at least say so when questioned...you'd think.

Hope you’re right.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

There is almost no data available, just the appalling football.

Do none of you have jobs?

Are you the sort of people who argue with tradesmen and doctors?

Okay this is actually hilarious. Might want to update that windows 96 mate the new internet will shock you.

 

[Fully Fledged]

I guess if they're sticking with Erik they'd at least say so when questioned...you'd think.

"It’s not my call. It’s the management team that’s running Manchester United that have to decide

 

[RedSky]

Of course that opinion is fine. I just think after 11 years of pure mediocrity (and that's understating it) a quick fix was pretty much impossible.

He's been responsible for over 2 years of that moses. We had a very brief moment where he was able to actually reach United standards early on in his first season and it's gradually declined since then (you could argue that was simply a new Manager bounce). Honestly, I think it's ok to accept that he's simply not cut out to be a Manager at a big club and part ways. I don't see why some people believe that we should stick by him through thick and thin. Like what's the reasoning?

Surely there are many Managers that would be able to make us more coherent in attack or be able to stop us leaking goals. We've got a GD of +11 over 83 PL games. In our last 20 PL Games we have a win percentage of 30%. In our last 30 PL Games our win percentage is 37%. Like how terrible do we have to be before we actually think that maybe, just maybe it's the Manager?

 

[moses]

I think there are a myriad of reasons why they haven't said anything or even sacked EtH, it could be financial limits, or availability of a replacement, or maybe an ongoing negotiation with a replacement, or anything else really.

But, only whether to keep or sack, there is no reason to keep Ten Hag, the only data that matters is performances on the pitch and results, such data is already in the public domain and that's the only data that matters, there is no secret data that they have that isn't in the public domain regarding sacking ten Hag.

Well there is data we don't have. That's true.

The performances have been appalling and nobody could really defend ETH from a sacking. That's also true I reckon.

But if we are discussing data we don't have then we are into hypotheticals. I can't believe that nobody can think of information that idiots like us don't have on one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Do you lot know everything about every club?

Do you know what the aim was for league position this year? And what were the criteria for the manager keeping his job? That's quite pertinent info.

 

[Fts 74]

We obviously need a fresh start.EtH isn't the man to take us to the very top given what we've seen so far, it's almost impossible to think he will turn it around to a point where we are genuine title contenders top 4-6 is probably his ceiling which for a club like ours isn't good enough.

I'm certain it's a matter of when not if he'll be sacked but that's a decision for the execs and no amount of name calling on social media or everyone calling Inoes pathetic is going to change that.

I understand the frustration I feel it as well but some of you need to take a bit of time out of this discussion some of the posts on here are truly astonishing.

 

[pocco]

Romano spends half his time telling us how safe Ten Hag is and how INEOS love him. Now he's trying to get a piece of the non action.

 

[Marwood]

Jesus I can't actually believe you all think you know everything.

What did they decide was ok for this season? What was the managers brief? What is their two year plan?

We don't know those answers for sure but are you saying you couldn't even have an educated guess? Like you have no clue whatsoever?

I'm pretty sure they didn't say the worst start to a Premier League ever and being in 12th spot was OK.

 

[RedSky]

Not to get anyones hopes up but the wall of silence from the people in that meeting is a bit odd.

If they decided to keep him for now, I expected some kind of reasonably obvious briefing to follow quickly.

Maybe sounding out potential replacements and if they can't find anyone then they'll release a statement saying they're sticking with him? It is odd given all the media attention that they aren't backing him if they decided to stick.