And they still finished 22 points and +45 goal difference ahead of us.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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And they still finished 22 points and +45 goal difference ahead of us.
Well ... That's that!
I for one did feel he had to leave after a car crash of a PL season and CL "campaign", however, with a new structure (including a medical team) above, we go again!
Here's to hoping the lessons he learned towards the end stick. E.g. Amad > Antony, no number 6 on earth has the ability to teleport, etc. Also hope we get better players in the mould of some of the first teamers we seem unable to do without.
I for one did feel he had to leave after a car crash of a PL season and CL "campaign", however, with a new structure (including a medical team) above, we go again!
Here's to hoping the lessons he learned towards the end stick. E.g. Amad > Antony, no number 6 on earth has the ability to teleport, etc. Also hope we get better players in the mould of some of the first teamers we seem unable to do without.
Why because they didnt sack him for another manager like Poch Di Zerbi who have 0 trophies in England compare to Ten Hag?
I see your ambition is only playing good football at times.
Wow they finished 22 points ahead but what did they win? apart from your plaudits.
Nothing. But that's not the point. Trophies won are a thing of yesterday, now it's about maximising your chances to win again next season. And after the style of football United showed under EtH I'm not surprised that they think he doesn't really maximise United's chances but was lucky to win the FA Cup.
What does it tell you about what they think of ETH despite that?
We finished 8th.
I dont think he was lucky, we didnt concede 20 shots and had goal line clearances, or neither did city have chance after chance, in fact we had the better chances.
That final was far from a snatch and grab win.
I dont think City, Real and those clubs will say trophies are a thing of yesterday. Or Real Madrid fans crying about their CL win because they rode their luck at times. I bet they are crying and saying oh its only a trophy but we didnt play good football.
Surely everyone are hoping for us to recruit very well and for Ten Hag to show us why he was hired from Ajax in the first place? I do not understand the doom and gloom.
Well alright then, let’s see how their little bald Dutch manager gets on. Sick of him.
This wont end well. He was kept by default and when things happen that way they never work out! As soon as he gets the first 2 losses it will be chaos
I'm not letting anyone get off with 8th as a baseline for next season. ETH and all inners have said it was a write off season. That it was due to injuries so should not be counted and that we would have come 4th if not for bad luck. Realistically 4th would have been a failure because we came third the season before. So that is the baseline 4th/3rd. Even without signings with players back we should get 4th at least based on ETH. So if ETH or anyone else says 5/6 is a good season next year because the season before we got 8th then you are hypocrites/deluded/liars? (not sure of the right word.) 70 points is 4th. The season before we got 75 points. We should get 80 this year or its a failure.
I see no reason why we cant get 80 points
I see no reason why we cant get 80 points
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This is pretty much how I feel.
On one side, I don't think he deserved to stay.
But on the other side, there didn't look to be anyone available who was worth the gamble. And the FA Cup win may have just tipped the balance.
Anyway. The club has made their decision and I am happy to give him my support. But things have to improve significantly now.
So I look forward to next season with slight optimism.
This is good news.
I think people need to have patience and realize the bigger picture. Yes, he's had two years, but he's been hindered by a lot of stuff out of his control. I know his time at United didn't work out, but I believe that Ralf Ragnick was right when he said that the club needed open-heart surgery. A new manager, especially with the current crop on offer, is not going to contribute to that. I know we suffered a poor season last time out, but we've won a couple of cups and now we're moving towards a more sensible football structure at the club. We've cleared a lot of dead wood. More to do on that front, but we've been doing it for a change.
Ten Hag has, to an extent, been a victim of the same malaise that's fallen over the club since SAF left. Look at who we've signed since SAF left. Either they were considered not good enough at the time (Ighalo, Fellaini, James, Maguire, Lukaku etc) or they were expected to set the world on fire at United and they flopped or disappointed (Sancho, Di Maria, Ronaldo, Pogba, Casemiro last season). There are many more. The poor selling and the giving of long expensive contracts to undeserving players has been just as bad. All this has happened under different managers, but with the same incompetent owners and decision makers above them. It's not just Ten Hag's fault and I had genuine concerns that blindly moving onto a new manager with no good options available would've just restarted the cycle of mediocrity we've seen since SAF left. Yes, last season was disappointing, both in terms of performances and results and, yes, the manager has to take a large part of the blame for that, but to not give him the chance to continue under a better structure and with the actual overwhelming support of fans would be a mistake.
The dark clouds may still be there right now, but I do think they are lifting. The Glazers have gone from owning 98% of the club to owning 69%. There's the chance they will be selling more of their ownership interest to SJR in the not-too-distant future. SJR has, by all accounts, installed good people at the top of the operation. This is all stuff that had to happen before even considering a new manger. On top of that, there's even talk of a refurbished or a new stadium. It's not inconceivable that the government could help to pay for the regeneration of the area. The Greenwood situation is close to a resolution. We're taking our time to consider options rather than making rash decisions that we come to regret later.
It's not news to anybody that Woodward, Arnold, Joel, Avram et al have been entirely incompetent for the past 10+ years. We're now moving on past that and that's reason for optimism alone. Hopefully with a world-class football structure behind him, Ten Hag will begin to show again why everyone thought he was a great managerial signing for us in the first place.
I think people need to have patience and realize the bigger picture. Yes, he's had two years, but he's been hindered by a lot of stuff out of his control. I know his time at United didn't work out, but I believe that Ralf Ragnick was right when he said that the club needed open-heart surgery. A new manager, especially with the current crop on offer, is not going to contribute to that. I know we suffered a poor season last time out, but we've won a couple of cups and now we're moving towards a more sensible football structure at the club. We've cleared a lot of dead wood. More to do on that front, but we've been doing it for a change.
Ten Hag has, to an extent, been a victim of the same malaise that's fallen over the club since SAF left. Look at who we've signed since SAF left. Either they were considered not good enough at the time (Ighalo, Fellaini, James, Maguire, Lukaku etc) or they were expected to set the world on fire at United and they flopped or disappointed (Sancho, Di Maria, Ronaldo, Pogba, Casemiro last season). There are many more. The poor selling and the giving of long expensive contracts to undeserving players has been just as bad. All this has happened under different managers, but with the same incompetent owners and decision makers above them. It's not just Ten Hag's fault and I had genuine concerns that blindly moving onto a new manager with no good options available would've just restarted the cycle of mediocrity we've seen since SAF left. Yes, last season was disappointing, both in terms of performances and results and, yes, the manager has to take a large part of the blame for that, but to not give him the chance to continue under a better structure and with the actual overwhelming support of fans would be a mistake.
The dark clouds may still be there right now, but I do think they are lifting. The Glazers have gone from owning 98% of the club to owning 69%. There's the chance they will be selling more of their ownership interest to SJR in the not-too-distant future. SJR has, by all accounts, installed good people at the top of the operation. This is all stuff that had to happen before even considering a new manger. On top of that, there's even talk of a refurbished or a new stadium. It's not inconceivable that the government could help to pay for the regeneration of the area. The Greenwood situation is close to a resolution. We're taking our time to consider options rather than making rash decisions that we come to regret later.
It's not news to anybody that Woodward, Arnold, Joel, Avram et al have been entirely incompetent for the past 10+ years. We're now moving on past that and that's reason for optimism alone. Hopefully with a world-class football structure behind him, Ten Hag will begin to show again why everyone thought he was a great managerial signing for us in the first place.
Read that sentence to yourself. Think a little about it for a little while and read it again.
Does it still have the positive rinfto it that you intended it to have when you wrote it?
We overperformed like no other team in the league (60 points from 44 expected points). Our expected points through chances created and conceded were 15th in the league. For reference: Nottingham Forest had 50 and Brentford had 53 expected points this season. I'm aware that it is the points on the bard that counts, but this numbers indicate how far we are from actually better that position going forward and how bad our play actually has been for a full season now.
So how is top 4 realistic?
Are injuries luck or can the number of muscular injuries in a football squad have something to do with the training regime?
How are we an attractive destination to any players that will improve us at CB, DM or LB who has watched us play this season?
The big question is: How deep will the hole we've dug ourselves into be when we sum up next season.
The final was one of the most convincing performances United showed all season, that's true, but United was on the rope in some situations in the rounds before that. So overall I think it's fair to call the cup win lucky and not entirely convincing.
But I disagree on the other clubs you mentioned. Real surely is happy that they won the CL, but they already signed Mbappe for next season to further improve and maximise their chances to win it again. They once sacked Heynckes after winning the CL for unconvincing league performances the same season as they thought this wouldn't guarantee future success. City won multiple league titles but went for Guardiola because they thought they weren't convincing enough. Obviously they are all happy when they win a trophy, but the next day they focus on how to win the next trophy. Which also was the mindset United had under SAF by the way.
Fans obviously are allowed to see it different and spend more time celebrating their wins, but even then it's possible to be thankful for the ride and still think the club should move on.
Oh well. Another season of having our matches on the telly in the background while doing something else more important.
If he finishes 13th next season, then we have real proof he is the next SAF. He will stay for 26 years and win everything. We go again!
Agree with you. But after the awful season just gone, I can understand the pessimism. There needs to be a massive improvement in every aspect of the club.
I mean, even if you were fully ETH in, you must understand why some are a little doom and gloom. Last season is very difficult to forgive, and we are continuing on with the manager that gave us that. I myself will now back him but it will still take some time to get the back the faith in him.
We really dont need to be aholes to each other. Both sides of the equation consider what might be best for Man Utd. We don't really know, we try to predict. E10H had an awful season. But we all think and hope that the team will do well - utlimately we should drop absolute statements.
Managers have been sacked for less. Continuity is a good point and scrapping this campaign as a whole because of how things turned out is also a statement with some merit.
Let's just accept that in some way or form E10H convinced the board that he should be there for another reason. I was fully supporting him until Palace personally and until i got to the point i saw Amad and Amrabat play (and play well in a more structured formation) . I think he did the right things with CR, Sancho, disciplining Rash too. But i found his gameplan atrocious at times or his stubbornness with Antony and Rashford.
Anyho, let's hope we dont have lindeloff as LB next year or Casemiro as CB. also let's hope we get a cdm and a proper midfield.
Wasn’t this the rag that reported he was going to be sacked a fortnight ago?
Firstly, Mbappe to Madrid has been on the cards for 5 years. That is on the club not the manager btw, which is what INEOS need to do, get the right players in.
Secondly, City prepared for Guardiola a year before, they hired Tixi and the like 1 year before Pep, also they went for Pep, who is one of the best managers around.
We were linked with Southgate, Poch, Di Zerbi, McKenna, Tuchel, hardly an inspiring list of managers.
No. That was Steinburg in the Guardian.
Doesn't really matter if you can't beat him does it?
We did the same with Jose. Old habits and that.
Am I not a fan because I disagree with the decision to keep a manager that I believe will damage to club?
I firmly believe the decision to keep ETH is nothing short of a disaster for the club.
Please prove me wrong, ETH, but know that my expectations for next season are the lowest they've ever been.
...and yes, I feel like INEOS and the board has had their way with me this week.
Liverpool? League cup
Yes, those two examples have been a case of long term planning. Doesn't change my point however, which was that performances of the last season are a more important indicator for chances to win stuff next season than actual trophies won, especially cups.
Agreed. He made mistakes, we all agree on that. Hopefully he learns from the end of last season where he showed adaptability.
Yep, we dont want to have a season where we have no LB and CB for 5/6 games in a row. Recruitment is key this summer, under a different regime.
What a load of nonsense.
Just because a load of you have bought into “the top 4 cup” narrative , doesn’t mean the rest of us are as myopic.
If we had squeezed into 4th would you have enjoyed the season more than winning the FA cup like that ? Beating pool and City like that? Probably being the team that begun the implosion of Klopps final season ?
Lots of clubs get and need luck along the way to cup wins. You mustn’t of been around for our 99 season, but even at that there’s many times you can point to where a team just gets bundles of luck along the way to a cup.
I’d argue this “we need to be 4th/3rd” directive is such small time thinking. Of course we want to get back to the top of the league, but the only reason people value anything other than 1st/2nd is the champions league spots. The Europa gets you that spot and even next season if English teams do better in Europe , 5th will get a spot.
Some of the last 2 seasons under ETH, as bad as it’s been at times , there have been near unforgettable moments that have probably been some of the most satisfying wins since SAF left.
Thats what the sport is about when you clearly aren’t the best club, competing with clubs like Chelsea and city who spend more or Liverpool/arsenal who spend better and have had owners who clearly didn’t have a competent way of running things.
Standards aren’t simply “that was awful , needs to go”, some of you confuse “I think hes a chancer” with “after objective review of all the variables , he is not the right man”. I don’t know what exactly INEOs process was or why they ultimately decided to retain him, but I’m reasonably confident it wasn’t mostly cause of fan sentiment and not just down to the FA cup win.
On the balance of probability, they did think a lot of the things ETH couldn’t control , injuries, player dramas and club dysfunction (including sale) did make it hard for him to the point that while the season was unacceptable, it was more likely an anomaly , rather then a reflection of what he can or will do.
I’d rather an FA cup or Europa cup win every year over “look we finish 4th”. Even “look we finished 2nd , 15 points off 1st” doesn’t do anything for me. Unless we are properly challenging for a league, I’d take an FA or Europa cup. Im not saying I don’t want to see us make progress in the league , I’m saying that for where we have been the last 11 years , a cup is better then the top 4 boring Woodward/glazer target.
So I am confused, do you want long term planning or short term moves?
I agree performances were terrible last season in the most part but we saw at the end of the season, he can change and be more compact, last 4 games we were different.
After reflecting on what was undoubtedly a poor season by our clubs standards which was somewhat saved by the magnificent FA Cup win, I’m happy to give ETH the benefit of the doubt. Whilst injuries and everything that was going on behind the scene undoubtedly contributed to the shit show that was Manchester United at times, I hope that the manager has learnt some lessons from it from his own mistakes as well. The win the final showed me that he is able to come up with a plan b if you like in the big games in order to get the job done and that’s something I hope we see more off next season rather than just going out all guns blazing every game trying to play attacking football when the team is seriously lacking in those areas to make the game plan effective. Hopefully we will now start to see some progress made in terms of recruitment although what with the euros upon us, that could slow things down.
All that said though, ETH needs to start well next season. If say after 10 games we are already a distance between not only those at the top of the table but those looking to finish in the top four, things could get messy again quickly for him and I don’t think INEOS would have any hesitation of getting rid.
All that said though, ETH needs to start well next season. If say after 10 games we are already a distance between not only those at the top of the table but those looking to finish in the top four, things could get messy again quickly for him and I don’t think INEOS would have any hesitation of getting rid.
I also wonder if Ineos were aware how much the fans hated the idea of Southgate coming in as manager? This could also have been in their thinking and maybe they will wait and see how he does at club level if he leaves England
Ok thanks
The contract extension would be, I would think, be a way for Ineos to get him to move from being a manager to a head coach, and take certain responsibilities away from him.
Next season can't come soon enough. Very curious to see if our play style will progress/improve.
Also, I wonder what the upper limits of the "back the manager" mantra are. For example, if Martinez and Shaw get injured, does he have carte blanche for another poor season?
INEOS has a lot riding on this decision. I can already imagine the articles if it goes all pear-shaped, which is a real, I’d even say likely, possibility. I have no confidence in Ten Hag and how next season pans out will partially inform the same about INEOS for me. Godspeed.
Also, I wonder what the upper limits of the "back the manager" mantra are. For example, if Martinez and Shaw get injured, does he have carte blanche for another poor season?
INEOS has a lot riding on this decision. I can already imagine the articles if it goes all pear-shaped, which is a real, I’d even say likely, possibility. I have no confidence in Ten Hag and how next season pans out will partially inform the same about INEOS for me. Godspeed.
Perfect post.
I dont know where this play good football and finish top 4 is what we should judge the manager on has come from.
Numerous times we have won trophies being lucky, you need luck to win anything, even a league title. I am in the same boat as you, if we are not competing for the league or CL title, I rather win the FA cup.
The modern day fan is all about top 4 and have written of other trophies, even if we win it its lucky so it shouldn't count.
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