Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[lex talionis]

Which is a position that isn't based in reality. Nobody except retiring managers at this level go into the final seasons of their deals and dont end up sacked or extending.

The "see how it goes" brigade will never learn will they. Same thing was said in November, when we were bound to improve when players started returning from injury. They'll be saying the same thing in October 2024 when we're having another shocking season but Luke Shaw and x y z are all still injured. ETH once again on the cusp of the sack, but we need to "let him finish the season and see how it goes"

That’s right. If INEOS decide to keep ETH for another season but not commit to a contract extension that’s as much as a fukk you as sacking him now, and undeniably worse for the squad and the club overall.

Those who believe that ETH is building a great project should get off the fence and commit themselves publicly right now that ETH deserves a two or three year contract extension. If they’re in the “let’s see how things are going in October” they should be ignored.

 

[Laurencio]

I do not think it is a coincidence that a reputable paper went out and announced Ten Hag would be sacked at the end of the performance review week which was when Wilcox was set to deliver his audit to INEOS and the board of directors.

Whomever leaked it must have been very confident that review would lead to his dismissal. While my desire to see him get another chance grew after yesterday, I highly doubt they ignore that audit.

 

[Hoof the ball]

I would imagine the candidates are Tuchel, Pochetinno, McKenna, Potter. Maybe Allegri and Conte? What are the chances of Zidane?

This comes up annually. I'm surprised it's given the time of day. Zidane doesn't even speak English (I think) and has expressed no interest in managing over here.

I think we should seriously consider Xavi. Berrada and Wilcox will have more in common with Xavi, since Xavi comes from Pep's school of thought.

 

[united_99]

Very happy for the win yesterday and especially with four academy kids/players starting.
However the league (and CL!!) performances and results this season were atrocious. At the end of the day with so much money spent apart from one-off games we are still not good at anything. We can’t attack, we can’t defend, we can’t pass, we can’t keep the ball and we can’t win, not even ugly.
On a different note I just saw we only had 26 % possession yesterday, watching the game it somehow felt more so a bit surprised with that.

 

[CM]

It's unbelievable to me how one domestic cup run wipes out from many peoples memory:

1. the worst league run in 30 years
2. the worst CL run of any EPL club ever, in an easy group no less
3. the bizarre and stubborn tactical choices
4. a transfer record littered with poor personal choices
5. under-utilisation of the squad and favouritism
6. the manager claiming zero accountability for the failures in any of his interviews

Only injuries blamed for everything. Even when some players complained that the training sessions were too hard and perhaps leading to exhaustion ahead of games and injuries. Still nothing is ever his fault, the successes are down to him and the failures just bad luck or down to the weak players.

Good post. The standards have dropped so far as a direct result of Ten Hag's choices this season. That shouldn't be forgotten.

I hope the club pushes on with plans to replace him. We can't afford to be writing off another campaign in September, and I have no faith Ten Hag can get it right with the daft kamikaze tactics he's stubbornly employed for 90% of the season.

 

[vanrooney]

A lot of our performances and results would have been prevented/mitigated with a more compact/solid midfield set-up. In fact, "b-b-but we won the last three

Cause there's other teams around the league that were also hit with injuries and it didn't stop them from scoring goals, and maintaining a style of play. Do you really think SAF would have negative goal difference this season with the attack we've had available for the majority of it? Or get absolutely embarrassing as the road to bottom half sides?

I think we were hit harder by injuries than anyone else. We had no fit lb for the best part of the season and we had no settled cb pairing. Everyone who played football knows how important a settled back four is and in fact we were quite good as soon as we had Martinez and varane playing. Luke Shaw was one of the most important players when fit in the last years and he wasn’t available. The problem there isn’t the coach but the people responsible for transfers. It is a farce that we haven’t bought a top lb for a while who can stay fit for example.

 

[GreatDane]

Well as I said to @glazed I think he's known for a while what's going to happen, if he didn't then I don't think he would have gone on the holiday so quickly.

Can't get fired if they can't find me, smart!

 

[Steve Bruce]

Cause there's other teams around the league that were also hit with injuries and it didn't stop them from scoring goals, and maintaining a style of play. Do you really think SAF would have negative goal difference this season with the attack we've had available for the majority of it? Or get absolutely embarrassing as the road to bottom half sides?

Who has had more injuries than united and had a better season?

Also SAF in his first load of years at United wasn't exactly giving the impression he could do what he did either. He was under severe pressure and many united fans wanted him out and a lot of the complaints where about results and how rudderless our team looked playing less than great football.

A lot of what we are hearing about ETH is mirroring what was said about SAF.

 

[stevoc]

I’d say Redcafe still shades it

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I would imagine the candidates are Tuchel, Pochetinno, McKenna, Potter. Maybe Allegri and Conte? What are the chances of Zidane?

Allegri and Conte not a chance. The reported shortlist by the Times is McKenna, Tuchel, Frank and Poch.

 

[stevoc]

That's the big one for me. He could have played this way months ago, before Christmas. I still don't think we'd have made top four but we would have been a lot closer.

Yeah maybe not as our injuries have still been bad but at least we could have tried. There's been no benefit to persevering with the mental style of play he's been employing all season.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I think it's based on the fact that he was a goner before the game. All the journalists were reporting that he was getting the sack. It wouldn't be the first time we kneejerk and abandon a plan though. What would make it worse is that we've apparently been reviewing this for weeks now, so to abandon it all after one game? It's not a good look if that is the case.

Mate, you can relax. There's literally zero anything pointing to him staying.

 

[lex talionis]

The problem is that all known alternatives are serious risks. Tuchel and Poch both bombed in their last PL tour of duty. McKenna has excelled at Ipswich, but it’s Ipswich. Southgate hardly fills anyone with confidence. Jose and Ole, no way.

 

[Stinkypete]

I would imagine the candidates are Tuchel, Pochetinno, McKenna, Potter. Maybe Allegri and Conte? What are the chances of Zidane?

Have you been following the restructure?


There is absolutely zero chance we go in for Allegri or Conte if we are wanting an attacking 4-3-3 throughout the club.

 

[golden_blunder]

Let’s just keep eth. I don’t get why it is so hard to understand that you can’t win anything when half of the team is not available. It’s like racing with a f1 car without one wheel and a disfunctional engine. Even a Red Bull would look shit.
eth is right when he tells the journos that they have no clue about football management. You have to have your best players available to challenge in the pl. There are too many good teams and money around. Let’s buy a top cd for varane a fit left back and a cm who can play with mainoo and we may have a first team that can compete

2 things from your post:
1.its not true that all journos and pundits have no experience of football management. Keane for example.
2. Yes buy a Cm to play alongside Mainoo. But that’s been a big issue hasn’t it. He needs to change his tactics to have a double pivot. There is simply too much room for opposition otherwise

 

[Robbie Boy]

The reported shortlist by the Times is McKenna, Tuchel, Frank and Poch.

None of whom are particularly inspiring. Though some have decided that McKenna is the oracle.

 

[stevoc]

3 finals and 2 trophies in his first two years? Some of yous are fecking weird

Roberto DiMatteo Won the Champions League and the FA Cup over two seasons at Chelsea.

Were they wrong to sack him?

 

[mythz]

When can we expect that he is gone ?

 

[Rista]

People are hilarious on here. The lack of self awareness is unreal. “If they don’t sack him then Utd are useless” “It will be a trainwreck”. Or…hear me out…maybe if he stays it’s because the club believe him to be the best man for the job and think he can still fit into our vision. What is it about modern society where if you disagree with something it’s the biggest travesty on earth. No logic, just reactionary emotions.

I'm mostly seeing "if we do sack him now it's a disgrace" kind of posts? If the club do believe he's the best man for the job then fair enough. If they made that decision based on one cup game then it would be the same thing as when we gave Ole permanent job. We do know pretty much for a fact that we've approached other managers so we know they were at least thinking of letting him go as recent as a few days ago.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Have you been following the restructure?


There is absolutely zero chance we go in for Allegri or Conte if we are wanting an attacking 4-3-3 throughout the club.

That is why I put a ? after their names, as I wasn't sure. Thanks for clearing that up

 

[stevoc]

I think we were hit harder by injuries than anyone else. We had no fit lb for the best part of the season and we had no settled cb pairing. Everyone who played football knows how important a settled back four is and in fact we were quite good as soon as we had Martinez and varane playing. Luke Shaw was one of the most important players when fit in the last years and he wasn’t available. The problem there isn’t the coach but the people responsible for transfers. It is a farce that we haven’t bought a top lb for a while who can stay fit for example.

This is incorrect.

Between the start of the season and Shaws last injury in mid February we were without a Left back for 5 games because Shaw and/or Reguilon were available.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Roberto DiMatteo Won the Champions League and the FA Cup over two seasons at Chelsea.

Were they wrong to sack him?
[/I honestly know.Nor do I care.We ain't Chelsea.

 

[DWelbz19]

It's unbelievable to me how one domestic cup run wipes out from many peoples memory:

1. the worst league run in 30 years
2. the worst CL run of any EPL club ever, in an easy group no less
3. the bizarre and stubborn tactical choices
4. a transfer record littered with poor personal choices
5. under-utilisation of the squad and favouritism
6. the manager claiming zero accountability for the failures in any of his interviews

Only injuries blamed for everything. Even when some players complained that the training sessions were too hard and perhaps leading to exhaustion ahead of games and injuries. Still nothing is ever his fault, the successes are down to him and the failures just bad luck or down to the weak players.

Merson’s comment the other day has to be true — ten Hag does have that Men in Black memory wiper pen.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[TsuWave]

I think we were hit harder by injuries than anyone else. We had no fit lb for the best part of the season and we had no settled cb pairing. Everyone who played football knows how important a settled back four is and in fact we were quite good as soon as we had Martinez and varane playing. Luke Shaw was one of the most important players when fit in the last years and he wasn’t available. The problem there isn’t the coach but the people responsible for transfers. It is a farce that we haven’t bought a top lb for a while who can stay fit for example.

This doesn't address what I said to you. A lot of our performances and results would have been prevented/mitigated with a more compact/solid midfield set-up. In fact, "b-b-but we won the last three games" thing that people are comically pointing to as reason to keep him, he did just that.

Also, though our floor is raised when Martinez is available (he's my favourite United player). We've also had plenty of disasterclasses with him in the team.

 

[stevoc]

.

I honestly know.

Do you though?

Nor do I care.

Ok

We ain't Chelsea.

Astute observation.

 

[Rojofiam]

This comes up annually. I'm surprised it's given the time of day. Zidane doesn't even speak English (I think) and has expressed no interest in managing over here.

I think we should seriously consider Xavi. Berrada and Wilcox will have more in common with Xavi, since Xavi comes from Pep's school of thought.

So does ETH.

 

[Blood Mage]

It's unbelievable to me how one domestic cup run wipes out from many peoples memory:

1. the worst league run in 30 years
2. the worst CL run of any EPL club ever, in an easy group no less
3. the bizarre and stubborn tactical choices
4. a transfer record littered with poor personal choices
5. under-utilisation of the squad and favouritism
6. the manager claiming zero accountability for the failures in any of his interviews

Only injuries blamed for everything. Even when some players complained that the training sessions were too hard and perhaps leading to exhaustion ahead of games and injuries. Still nothing is ever his fault, the successes are down to him and the failures just bad luck or down to the weak players.

United fans are just very emotional and desperate to have a manager for life again like we had with Fergie. Even if that means we stagnate on the pitch while our rivals keep developing.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

 

[the_cliff]

Happy with the FA cup win and he does have a knack of winning a trophy every season since his Ajax days. However, our league form this season is a sackable offense regardless of injuries.

If he was to be replaced by a Tuchel/Zidane I'd be happy. If he were to be replaced by Poch/Southgate/De Zerbi, I'd rather just keep him.

 

[stevoc]

Makes sense, the club aren't going to confirm a story before their own formal announcement. Saying a decision hasn't yet been made isn't a denial either. I have the feeling that if they were planning on keeping him they'd have killed this speculation by backing him.

 

[Footyislife]

My only guess is this may revolve around his contract and veto power in squad building he demanded when he took the job. Maybe they do want him to stay but be a regular manager, so talking to other managers is leverage. I can't think of anything else why INEOS would force this move given only 1 year left on the contract.

He's done a great job developing talent, has decent tactics against big sides with vastly inferior talent on the pitch, and is building a good culture our future players seem to resonate with. When we have our players healthy, the performances are good.

On Injuries -

1. Defense - No manager would survive without a LB + Willy, Evans, Casemiro, and Maguire as our defensive unit. How do you plan for your top 4 CBs to be hurt most of the season. You just can't. The people who brush past injuries don't realize how important defense is to his tactics (or any tactics). He need defenders that stretch the field, play a high line, and make line-breaking passes. Without it, we look like a blunt team.
2. Midfield - Alright once Mainoo and Casemiro were healthy, but again no depth. Amrabat took a whole season to get settled in.
3. Forwards - Rashford was hurt?/atrocious all season. Amad hurt. Instead we had 2 youngsters (Garnacho, Rasmus) struggle to shoulder the load all season.

Horrible Squad Building - The major knock against ETH/Murtaugh is the atrocious job building this squad. Selling Garner, Alvaro, Fred only then to be paper thin in those positions was baffling. Then the purchases of Antony (not fast enough) and Mount (same position as Bruno) are headscratchers and we got swindled. To not force Maguire to leave and get a better CB that fits his playstyle was baffling. I will say they did a good job with the youth academies and bringing players up, but they have a skeleton of a squad needed to truly compete in Europe/EPL/Cups.

 

[holdsteady]

Let's hope the echo chamber on here is shouted down. ETH IN

 

[Tarrou]

I was keep, keep, keep for long time, then sack. Now Im back in the keep camp.

Not because of the win yesterday, but the interactions between himself and players.

There is a strong support for him in the dressing room.

And of course, the integration/development of Garnacho and Mainoo.

it's kinda irrelevant if he has strong support from the dressing room if he can't consistently motivate the players, which has been the case all season

 

[Big Ben Foster]

People clearly still don't understand why the Glazers and Woodward were so bad. It's not that they simply made terrible decisions, it's that those decisions were taken based on the pulse of the fanbase. They operated like fans. Like the fans, they wanted the managers to have clear outs and have as much control as possible, when everyone else was moving away from that. Like the fans, they kept managers to give them time until the job became untenable. They hired Ole off emotion like fans suggested. They weren't football people, so took all opinions based on the pulse of the fanbase and public opinion. Yet when all these decisions went sideways, our fickle fanbase could always fall back on not being the ones to make the decision. Like fans, they brought ETH in, giving him as much control and limited supervision as he wanted, because like fans they also treated him like a saviour.

INEOS are coming in as a group, hiring best in class people who have experience leading top sporting ventures. They work in regard to making sure decisions are based on evidence based measures and not quick opinion changes based on short term, inconsistent results. The reason we will go far with them is because they would be able to make decisions based on facts, regardless of how popular and unpopular they are. With the knowledge that fans will have no choice but to accept those decisions. This is one of those situations. Almost everyone wanted him gone last week after the worst season we've had in the league and champions league. We all agreed that it was unacceptable. We all agreed that money was wasted and that players needed to be shipped off as well. Yet after one game, despite how poor we were for 60+ games, a lot of fans have temporarily changed their minds and ETH is now the victim again. Hypocrisy is wanted him to stay and wanting a clearout of the squad that made it happen. Rashford is still unfavoured. People are still fine with Varane and Casemiro leaving. Mctominay should go too. Yet ETH should stay??

The sad part here is that when they do sack him, these same fans will be the ones calling the club embarrassing. You'll have people like Neville questioning the decision, yet their same ones always talking about how we've been poor for ten years. This is why. Very similar to Liverpool in the 90s.

We have fans calling for backroom changes (Evans-Houllier debacle), we have fans calling for large scale player changes ( Spice Boys) and we have poor managers staying for longer than they should (Souness). It's a lot of sentimental crap masked as the United way. I don't think anyone truly believes he'll have us challenging. I'm happy we won the FA Cup, but I can't lie and act like I didn't know fans would sway based on this, a lot of them were just looking for the opportunity to, as at the heart of this is fans not wanting to make the hard decision of having another manager sacked and can't still recognize the true cost of continuing to fail.

Spot on

 

[The Cat]

it's kinda irrelevant if he has strong support from the dressing room if he can't consistently motivate the players, which has been the case all season

I agree. The players share a massive amount of the blame - I'm glad they showed up yesterday for a change but where has that been all season?

And the point of my point above is it is the manager's job to make that effort regular.

 

[Giggsyking]

Good post. The standards have dropped so far as a direct result of Ten Hag's choices this season. That shouldn't be forgotten.

I hope the club pushes on with plans to replace him. We can't afford to be writing off another campaign in September, and I have no faith Ten Hag can get it right with the daft kamikaze tactics he's stubbornly employed for 90% of the season.

Replacing him with a championship manager is the real fecking problem with the standard.

 

[AndySmith1990]

It's pretty obvious a decision was made some time ago, and Ineos aren't going to flip flap between changing their mind based on the result of the last game,unlike emotional fans. They'll just give it some time before announcing.

Considering the intense speculation going on, they'd have already killed it if he were staying.

 

[sepulturite]

Can't get fired if they can't find me, smart!

 

[Laurencio]

Yes, but what strong information? That is what I want to know. Did someone leak the performance review? Did we already offer a contract to the next guy? There must have been something compelling to make them run with "will sack" instead of "are likely to, or could sack".