But can Poch win a trophy with an injured squad?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I'm barely ok with him staying as a reward for his FA Cup win and he should be sacked immediately as soon as it looks like it's going south again next season.
I find the fans pretending it's been some great season after the cup win and have drastically changed their minds on Ten Hag to be goofy.
Guarantee some fans would be using the classic "stacked fixture list" excuse next season now we're back into the Europa.
I find the fans pretending it's been some great season after the cup win and have drastically changed their minds on Ten Hag to be goofy.
Guarantee some fans would be using the classic "stacked fixture list" excuse next season now we're back into the Europa.
Fans are fickle shocker
This particular post I just said that I don’t see the point in 10 games and seeing how he did. For me it’s back him or sack him. IF they decide to back him I’m ok with that but no excuses next season.
How long is this review supposedly meant to take?
If we make a long-term decision based on a one-off game, it will tell me all I need to know about Ratcliffe and Ineos. Keeping Ten Hag on the basis of a one-off game is effectively saying we are better than Man City based off of ONE game. And if we are making conclusions like that then there is no need to change anything going forward. Only a clinically insane person would jump to such conclusions after the season we have just had.
If someone has shown you who they are over a long period of time, you'd do well to believe them instead of thinking they are going to change based off one instance. Ten Hag is not going to change. He has proved that he is one of the most stubborn obstinate managers out there. Some of the decisions he made towards the end of the season that everyone is thinking is a sign of change is nothing to do with that. Its simply a matter of being forced to do it because of injuries. Amad only played because Rashford and Antony were hurt. It showed yesterday. Amrabat only played because Casemiro was playing at CB. I promise you if Casemiro was fit, he would have played and that would have meant one of Amrabat or Varane (two of our most impactful players in the final) having to ride pine. He remains stubborn on Mctominay too. Maguire likely starts if he's fit too.
If someone has shown you who they are over a long period of time, you'd do well to believe them instead of thinking they are going to change based off one instance. Ten Hag is not going to change. He has proved that he is one of the most stubborn obstinate managers out there. Some of the decisions he made towards the end of the season that everyone is thinking is a sign of change is nothing to do with that. Its simply a matter of being forced to do it because of injuries. Amad only played because Rashford and Antony were hurt. It showed yesterday. Amrabat only played because Casemiro was playing at CB. I promise you if Casemiro was fit, he would have played and that would have meant one of Amrabat or Varane (two of our most impactful players in the final) having to ride pine. He remains stubborn on Mctominay too. Maguire likely starts if he's fit too.
And the pollsters in here are all ACTUAL United fans?
If she does the daily summary it can take all summer for all I care.
Amrabat had been warming the bench even prior to those games and he kept playing a midfield of Mainoo, McTominay pushed all the way into the opposition box or Eriksen and Bruno, letting every opponent walk through to our box uncontested. He only had a revelation after that undressing against Palace putting his job firmly under threat.
We went through the first half of the season without being able to buy a goal to save our lives. There’s been mitigating circumstances with injuries in defense but our problems are in both attack and midfield set up, shape of the team and a lot of them in his own making.
I'm convinced this 'review' is just a way to delay the announcement for a few more days. They obviously want the club to enjoy the FA Cup win for a bit before making a decision that is no doubt going to be unpopular with some people at the club and some of our fans.
Guess where we finished in the league? That’s right 8th!! Our worst ever PL season, dumped out of Europe after finishing bottom of our CL group that contained Copenhagen and Galatasaray. We’ve been really unfortunate with injuries but so have a few teams, that’s no excuse for the suicidal football we’ve witnessed all season.
Conceding an insane amount of chances every game that’s only rivalled by one of the worst ever sides in the prem in Sheffield Utd. Finishing the campaign with a negative goal difference, his stubbornness to refuse to change what was a fundamentally flawed team set up has led to all that. It was great achievement yesterday to win the FA Cup and will always be grateful for the two trophies he gave us but I think it’s the perfect way for him to leave now on a high and bring in the next guy to build on that next season. I think if we stick with him for next season we’re falling into the same trap we did when we gave Ole the job permanently after that night in Paris, making a decision off the back of pure emotion rather than sitting down and carefully looking at the facts. I hope with season review INEOS are conducting we will reach the right conclusion.
I hear you like reviews, so we'll be reviewing the review and then reviewing that review of the reviews.
It takes an hour to assimilate the information from a review. Not a week. So probably says everything.
And he changed style of play. Which won't wash next season.
Whatever you think the club should do, it's very very hard to imagine they aren't going to sack him. All the signs are there. I would be astonished (but pleased) if they didn't. He's basically already looking for or nailed down a new job.
I find the narrative about ONE match, and United being amateurs if they decide to keep him after ONE match and ignore the whole season is very bizarre. Winning the FA cup isn't one random knockout match this is not the super cup or community shield. There were many matches leading to this, including one of our best ever nights at Old Trafford vs Liverpool.
If we had the same exact season but yesterday was the Champions league final, and we win and he signs a new contract, is that us being a circus and INEOS being amateurs for deciding over "One" match? Baffling.
I'm not making excuses for the league performance or the UCL performance, but the FA up achievement and ten Hags success was not a random one match shootout.
If we had the same exact season but yesterday was the Champions league final, and we win and he signs a new contract, is that us being a circus and INEOS being amateurs for deciding over "One" match? Baffling.
I'm not making excuses for the league performance or the UCL performance, but the FA up achievement and ten Hags success was not a random one match shootout.
Well said. It’s two years in. Get the other stuff right, then see if ETH is the man
I don’t know anymore. The players clearly have respect for him and play for him. He does have the tactical ability. He can win the big game. Missing the amount of players he was missing this season would turn any team into a mess.
But there were also some glaring errors. His signings that will turn out to be financially disastrous. The inability to make in-game adjustments properly. Questionable substitution patterns. The whole high press/low block strategery was baffling. There’s no stat you can come up with that shows giving up that volume of shots is ever a positive.
I’m inclined, at the moment, to giving him another season with proper recruitment and roster turnover…but with a very short leash. Cannot get off to another bad start.
But there were also some glaring errors. His signings that will turn out to be financially disastrous. The inability to make in-game adjustments properly. Questionable substitution patterns. The whole high press/low block strategery was baffling. There’s no stat you can come up with that shows giving up that volume of shots is ever a positive.
I’m inclined, at the moment, to giving him another season with proper recruitment and roster turnover…but with a very short leash. Cannot get off to another bad start.
Definitely not, I'm sure that both answers have opposition fans that vote though I only spotted them under the yes answer. Some famous Chelsea, Arsenal and Juventus fans.
You're right in the sense that ETH should never have had that level of responsibility at a top football club so in that way the fact he had to make decisions wasn't his fault. So there is some judgment against him for things other managers don't have to deal with. To be going out and spending hundreds of millions on players the manager alone picks is not very sensible, they don't have the time available to be analysing every detail of these decisions that are worth so much money. Which is why no other top club does it of course.
Nonetheless, it's disappointing that so many decisions he did make have lacked success. Hojlund and Martinez have been pleasing but then we've pissed away tens of millions of on others, some of which didn't make sense on any level, such as Mason Mount. Which does give pause to consider what his acumen is.
Then we go to some of the tactics. There's a thin line between being principled and stupidly repeating mistakes in his midfield and defensive structures. Being principled is good, because you can set standards and expectations that way. But getting battered against average teams is not so good, he never seemed to put the handbrake on at any time even though it wouldn't have been sacrificing his principles because the players and fans know injuries are an issue.
I suppose ultimately it depends where each of the voices that will be around a table were prior to yesterday. The ones on the fence might have been persuaded he can get a tune out of the team but I think in general there should be greater vision than that. They should really have already taken a view on everything they've seen so far, and have a complete picture of what respect he commands around the team, so one fixture shouldn't be deciding much no matter how big.
He's gone on his holiday today apparently, so they definitely won't be calling him in Monday.
It is beyond clueless to say MU tactics at Wembley resembled Ole-ball. And the idea, daft as it is, is not your idea, even. The tactics around Bruno and Mctominay… The full backs, how we utilised Garnacho. Actually it’s pointless. Just cut and paste from better hosts, please.
I imagine he's already been told. It was leaked out on Friday so it must be well known within the club.
they've been approaching other managers so not really buying this review bollocks
they made the decision
if they go back on it due to one game and some knee-jerk fan sentiment in the moment, then lord help us
they made the decision
if they go back on it due to one game and some knee-jerk fan sentiment in the moment, then lord help us
It is pretty obvious that we have the next manager lined up already.
I doubt they will care if they’ve made the decision. More likely if you ignore the noise and journos being journos, they will do a end of year review only now the season has ended (which might not even include discussing the manager if they have already decided on that).
Think people read to much into this. If he was going to be sacked, it would be announced, if they were going to keep him they’d put something out there to back him over the summer. So it’s likely the decision will be made now.
It's possible that they weren't convinced by the candidates they interviewed. I get that if they keep ETH people will jump to the conclusion that it was down to the FA cup but it's not necessarily true.
I actually met someone (a few years back) who claimed that they masqueraded as a supporter on a well-known fan forum. They had great fun, they claimed.
One thing to keep in mind about the vast majority of our wins in the PL this season is that we were lucky to get those wins, starting with our first game of the season. Newcastle outplayed us yet we got the win. There’s a lot to be said for grinding out wins when outplayed, but out of the 38 PL games this season one could say we were the better side at most in 4 or 5 of those games.
Yes of injuries played a role, but so did poor management.
Yes of injuries played a role, but so did poor management.
Guess why, because he played a double pivot
You can type this stuff but it won't make you a writer. You can say it's clueless but it won't make you wise.
Of course there are many brands of counter attacking football with varying degrees of sophistication but counter attack (aka Oleball) is exactly what it was. The clue is in the 2-1 win and the 25% possession. Or you could just watch the match.
Facts.
I thought they’d do it ASAP so he can get of on holiday. He won’t be getting sacked this week then if that’s the case. Who in the right mind is gonna ring someone and sack them whilst on holiday rather than doing it face face?
Oh yeh I think he's known for a while what's going to happen no matter what he said in interviews yesterday.
I was keep, keep, keep for long time, then sack. Now Im back in the keep camp.
Not because of the win yesterday, but the interactions between himself and players.
There is a strong support for him in the dressing room.
And of course, the integration/development of Garnacho and Mainoo.
Not because of the win yesterday, but the interactions between himself and players.
There is a strong support for him in the dressing room.
And of course, the integration/development of Garnacho and Mainoo.
Because it took him all season to play a more solid midfield. Amrabat may not be the best but he gives us a bit of discipline and makes us more solid. An upgrade on him is needed massively.
People clearly still don't understand why the Glazers and Woodward were so bad. It's not that they simply made terrible decisions, it's that those decisions were taken based on the pulse of the fanbase. They operated like fans. Like the fans, they wanted the managers to have clear outs and have as much control as possible, when everyone else was moving away from that. Like the fans, they kept managers to give them time until the job became untenable. They hired Ole off emotion like fans suggested. They weren't football people, so took all opinions based on the pulse of the fanbase and public opinion. Yet when all these decisions went sideways, our fickle fanbase could always fall back on not being the ones to make the decision. Like fans, they brought ETH in, giving him as much control and limited supervision as he wanted, because like fans they also treated him like a saviour.
INEOS are coming in as a group, hiring best in class people who have experience leading top sporting ventures. They work in regard to making sure decisions are based on evidence based measures and not quick opinion changes based on short term, inconsistent results. The reason we will go far with them is because they would be able to make decisions based on facts, regardless of how popular and unpopular they are. With the knowledge that fans will have no choice but to accept those decisions. This is one of those situations. Almost everyone wanted him gone last week after the worst season we've had in the league and champions league. We all agreed that it was unacceptable. We all agreed that money was wasted and that players needed to be shipped off as well. Yet after one game, despite how poor we were for 60+ games, a lot of fans have temporarily changed their minds and ETH is now the victim again. Hypocrisy is wanted him to stay and wanting a clearout of the squad that made it happen. Rashford is still unfavoured. People are still fine with Varane and Casemiro leaving. Mctominay should go too. Yet ETH should stay??
The sad part here is that when they do sack him, these same fans will be the ones calling the club embarrassing. You'll have people like Neville questioning the decision, yet their same ones always talking about how we've been poor for ten years. This is why. Very similar to Liverpool in the 90s.
We have fans calling for backroom changes (Evans-Houllier debacle), we have fans calling for large scale player changes ( Spice Boys) and we have poor managers staying for longer than they should (Souness). It's a lot of sentimental crap masked as the United way. I don't think anyone truly believes he'll have us challenging. I'm happy we won the FA Cup, but I can't lie and act like I didn't know fans would sway based on this, a lot of them were just looking for the opportunity to, as at the heart of this is fans not wanting to make the hard decision of having another manager sacked and can't still recognize the true cost of continuing to fail.
I find that extremely strange. I can't even see myself go into the Cricket thread and pretend that I find it remotely interesting.
Jesus.
I have been advocating for years for the FA cup to become a knock-out tournament and not a 90 minute shoot-out. How the oldest and first cup competition in world football is still a a one-off game is mad and unfair. My Arsenal fans are always bragging about their FA Cup record, I am always telling them relax it was 90 minutes of football, 14 times.
Keep in mind they knew he was going and they had just won the FA Cup (playing tactics he had blocked all season).
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