I accidentally quoted you. But in the end I think we should give eth one more year with a new setup as I think the biggest problem was our transfer department the last years. Although the season was a disaster for most parts - that’s clear
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I accidentally quoted you. But in the end I think we should give eth one more year with a new setup as I think the biggest problem was our transfer department the last years. Although the season was a disaster for most parts - that’s clear
reguilon wasn’t good enough though
I would like this to be true but it 100% isn't.
Motivating the players as a group hasn't been the problem, the structural nightmare he created has been the main issue this season. Yes injuries has been a massive problem as well but the batshit insane system was already creating a total mess at the start of the season with a relatively full squad.
Saying that the players were not trying for him is nonsense in my opinion, maybe you look at Rashford and make that claim but Ten Hag was giving the players no chance to succeed with his set up.
If they choose to keep him it must come from a place of believing that he isn't going to throw away an entire season with nonsensical tactics again.
I am willing to give him a chance at the moment. I will be a bit disappointed with INEOS if they do in a way. They need to be brutal and clinical to make this a success I feel.
Yeah I agree I think they are just letting him have his moment for a day or two.
imo eth has shown that he can coach a team if he has enough good players available, that’s my point in the end. Yes, the season was a disaster and we can be more than happy that we end it on a high. I just see him being successful when our new transfer team gets to work with him. Just don’t want a new total break up and start from scratch.
Hope the club that foolishly allowed a new manager sign more than half of the team wouldn't sack him next season. What next manager now supposed to do with those players!
Yes, we should have given Ole 3 more years, to win 2 cups.
Same as any other club would do, sell the and invest the money into improving the team.
Not that it will be the next manager selling them anyway.
He could've played this way months ago ...?
How does what we saw yesterday , a great tactical performance against a dominant side translate when we set up the same way against Luton, West Ham or whoever ?
What if they sit back , how do you win ?
At some point , we have to learn to play on the front foot and keep shape whilst doing it.
We will never ever be able to get the amount of points needed to succeed by asking teams to try and break us down , we will never get to be a front foot side that way either .
The teams that break records for points play on the front foot . They focus on how they can hurt you , not how they can stop you .
How does what we saw yesterday , a great tactical performance against a dominant side translate when we set up the same way against Luton, West Ham or whoever ?
What if they sit back , how do you win ?
At some point , we have to learn to play on the front foot and keep shape whilst doing it.
We will never ever be able to get the amount of points needed to succeed by asking teams to try and break us down , we will never get to be a front foot side that way either .
The teams that break records for points play on the front foot . They focus on how they can hurt you , not how they can stop you .
Which is fair especially if they believe that they can manage the situation if he tries something silly, at the end of the day Overmars managed to impose a style and completely different profile of players on him, so we know that ETH can do it, he just needs to be reined in.
The problem isn't where United are it's how they move forward. The last three games are examples where the manager by his own admission is playing a particular way against what he desires having confirmed as much in the Neville interview.
Erik is in the exact same place Ole was, Solskjaer identified on the overlap it was dominating teams which was the next step up which he consequently failed in. One of the commentary team picked this up in the final, that it's games where the impetus is on United to attack that the team struggles tactically. This is totally consistent with the lackluster xG demonstrated this season and the performances.
United should only persist with Erik if moving forward the objective is to win, because the whole philosophy talk which inundated the reasons behind why he was hired has been abandoned for winning competitions. He should only stay on to deliver the league within 24 months which means he would have to challenge next season. If the club want to build an identity and team framed around an ideology they will have to find a new manager.
Erik is in the exact same place Ole was, Solskjaer identified on the overlap it was dominating teams which was the next step up which he consequently failed in. One of the commentary team picked this up in the final, that it's games where the impetus is on United to attack that the team struggles tactically. This is totally consistent with the lackluster xG demonstrated this season and the performances.
United should only persist with Erik if moving forward the objective is to win, because the whole philosophy talk which inundated the reasons behind why he was hired has been abandoned for winning competitions. He should only stay on to deliver the league within 24 months which means he would have to challenge next season. If the club want to build an identity and team framed around an ideology they will have to find a new manager.
He's going to find out by randomly checking his phone from a yacht in Tenerife isn't he.
But he is a left back, so you can't say we didn't have a left back for most of the season. And he's a better left back than Lindelof and Amrabat.
Though I am in Erik out camp, last evenings performance and his relationship with the squad including the young ones make it very difficult. He does have a case with injuries this season which needs to be investigated before making any decisions. Was it Erik's fault or just a bloody unlucky period.
If he is given another season his first 3 months will be crucial.
If he is given another season his first 3 months will be crucial.
Sunk cost fallacy
If they end up making decisions based on fan pressure then nothing will really change from the Glazers/Woodward era
They obviously aren't. I wouldn't listen to the shite United Stand sources.
I just find it difficult to have faith in a manager who enthusiastically drove the team into destination fecked and stuck with those tactics until that Arsenal home game despite it being blindingly obvious it had to be changed. He came into this season thinking ageing Casemiro who ended last season terribly, Bruno and Mount was a workable midfield.
In some ways the injuries have been a boon for him because it has shifted focus from his inexcusable tactics.
I don't agree. Ten Haag built a great footballing side with Ajax whereas Ole never had the experience or knowhow to do so.
The issue is the players are not good enough to be a possession dominant side. Our best players suit a more counter attacking style and a new manager won't change that. We need better players on the ball first.
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Meet the new boss, same as the old boss! If Ineos are at odds over their first big decision then we're in trouble.
Is "Sam C" supposed to know anything? He looks about 14 and works for a youtuber?
Most reasonable people have this perspective, though. Clearly if he was staying, the club would have issued a simple statement. Some are just acting absolutely hysterical for no reason.
So many of us have done the logical postings. I have written near essays on here about why it would be a terrible idea to keep him. Broken it down using data, facts, and calm dispassionate thinking. One rarely gets a response to a lengthy and well thought out post like that. Mainly because when presented with the full gamut of reasoning behind his dismissal, it is very hard to argue against. Yet, short, off the cuff comments like the ones you've cited, get used of evidence of emotional reactionary thinking. I wouldn't even bother posting short, succinct takes like that, if I ever got a response to longer, more detailed orientated ones. To be frank, almost all the emotional, reactionary responses to his potential firing, have been from people frothing at the mouth about the need to keep him because of an underdog/minnows, backs to the wall, FA cup final victory.
I don't think they are either, thankfully
yeah I think the main issue is the setup, that much is clear, and that's why I think we need to move on. To persist with it for so long is/was a clear mistake. The PL adapted to his tactics and he just stayed put.
must be incredibly demotivating for a player to have to keep playing when it obviously isn't working, and you're getting battered by the likes of Brentford, losing 7-0 etc..
we've started so many games this season where it looks like the entire team just don't give a feck I'm surprised anyone could think motivation isn't an issue
I have zero trust in him and likely won't for a long time but I do believe that the flaws he exposed are manageable. He is just one of many head coaches that can't be left without supervision, you don't trust them with transfer suggestions, you don't trust them with the way they may manage players' fitness or the way they manage schedules. But that's what DOFs are supposed to do, be hands-on when needed or take a step back if that's the best course of action. For the same club you don't manage Guardiola/Klopp the way you would manage De Zerbi or Marco Rose.
As far as I can see the emotional ranting is coming from people desperate for Ineos to change their mind and keep him, based off a single match.
Pretty sure most of us are rational enough to see the reality of the situation. Ineos have made up their mind and Ten Hag is going. Which is exactly how it should play out. We need decisive owners with a long term vision, not emotional knee jerkers.
I can't believe that one result will change their minds. If they were going to sack him but are reconsidering following the win then I'd be concerned. The same applies if they were going to keep him but we lost 2-1 in a meek fashion so sacked him.
Look, just shut it and keep an eye on the situation. Something MIGHT happen. Or it might not. Keep watching, though.
He was speaking sense after the Cup Final yesterday too. And he's not just a journalist, he's a huge Man Utd fan. He said everything yesterday to ESPN that he's just said there, but also pointed out that for all those saying he should stay after winning the FA Cup, "is this really the style of football and approach that you think is good enough for Man Utd?". United won the game with 27% possession, they played the second half with all their players in their own half, desperately defending in backs to wall stuff. Is that repeatable? Is that the sort of thing you want to see United doing? United should be dominating games, or at least trying too. Playing on the front foot. Fact is that United have had their worst league campaign in something like 34 years, and yes you can point to injuries, but the tactical decisions, and the way the team has been set up is almost independent of injuries. There was just a sense of chaos, of no-one knowing what they were supposed to be doing, and United suffered a record number of defeats. Now they've won the FA Cup, but they've done it by essentially playing park the bus football and hardly getting out of their own half. It's a nice victory for the club today, but it's not a brand of football or a basis on which you can build a winning team moving forwards. So I don't think there's any sense from people in the know, that anyone feels Ten Hag is the man to carry the club forwards.
Those are his words paraphrased. And I have to agree with all of it.
But that's where the issue is, Erik wanted to play transition football this season not possession and tactically it provided huge issues structurally in the team from the midfield / defense.
Ole and Erik are experiencing the exact same issue, they are failing to take the next step. If Erik played every game with the same pragmatism as the last three, United undoubtedly would have got top four. Mount was signed with the intention of being implemented in the new system. The overall depth of signings across the midfield is Casemiro, Mount, Eriksen - Amrabat (loan) and Sabitzer (loan). Those are enough players for there to be some semblance in what the manager want's to do. I don't buy into this notion that newer players will all of a sudden change the dynamics of the managers tactical intuition. This seasons failure was not one reflective of the wrong player profiles, but the wrong approach in 80% of the seasons fixtures.
Additionally, the consensus of what was achieved at Ajax isn't really relative in a completely new league and playing environment. The holes in midfield this season were also freezeframed positionally to what Ajax were doing but the quality in the Eredivisie allowed them to get away with it but not in the UCL.
There's a-lot of hysteria on here along the lines of "OMG are we going to keep him" based on absolutely nothing whatsoever.
Lauri Whitwell said one of the negotiating points between Ineos and ten hag this season was a request to hire a young English assistant with premier league experience but he didn’t want to do it out of loyalty to Van der Gaag. So there was a push for McLaren to be more assertive in his role and they wonder how much of the impetus to change the tactics in the final month come down to that.
So a way to find a compromise might also be to shake up his back room staff.
So a way to find a compromise might also be to shake up his back room staff.
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