De Ligt | €45+5m agreement reached pending medical | Signed!

[Cheimoon]

i'm quite surprised that Yoro seems to have taken preference over De Ligt. Yoro is very much focused on joining Madrid, but Madrid isn't really interested in matching our fee with Lille. It seems as if De Ligt and Yoro are both targets, but I thought you'd wrap up the one that is very happy to join first, and then try and tempt the hesitant one. Also, I don't see Yoro as a 30+ game starter for us the minute he hypothetically walks in the door. So the INEOS tactics on this one seem....interesting. We need both.

Maybe the worry is, if we sign De Ligt first, Yoro will panic at the thought of not starting games? Whereas right now we can make more "promises" to him in the negotiations?

all guesswork. But I hope we get De Ligt

I'm thinking United need both, also in case Martnez and/or De Ligt don't remain injury free. Maybe they want to sign De Ligt second, so that this event won't influence Yoro's decision. But on the other hand, if they think signing De Ligt will push Yoro to Real Madrid, then signing De Ligt right after Yoro would be a difficult start of United's relationship with Yoro.

I suppose the more logical reason is that United can only afford one CB (for now, until sales hallen) and then currently prefer Yoro. (Maybe also because De Ligt had already said he wants United and can therefore wait a bit.)

 

[Wrecking ralf]

Why am I seeing people saying were not getting de ligt if we manage to sign Yoro. We've always said we need more than one cb

 

[iammemphis]

Why am I seeing people saying were not getting de ligt if we manage to sign Yoro. We've always said we need more than one cb

Both right footed and very very expensive. Personally i think we'll sign both, but the idea apparently is Licha and Yoro/Del Ligt as the defensive partnership.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

We should be signing both. 2 very good CBs for right side.

 

[Juice Juiced]

even just reading his name makes my blood boil. Genuinely hate that guy.

Can’t stand his stupid face.

 

[croadyman]

Both right footed and very very expensive. Personally i think we'll sign both, but the idea apparently is Licha and Yoro/Del Ligt as the defensive partnership.

Yeah definitely looking that way

 

[Wrecking ralf]

Both right footed and very very expensive. Personally i think we'll sign both, but the idea apparently is Licha and Yoro/Del Ligt as the defensive partnership.

De Ligt can use either foot pretty well. He prefers to play on the right side but he's more than capable of playing on the left if needed to. Im not putting much hope on the Yoro transfer but I really want De Ligt. Both would be amazing and cover us for either side of the partnership.

 

[Redivy]

De Ligt is the player I'd be most excited about. I love centre backs that play the way he does and show the leadership traits he has.

I am hoping we sign both De Ligt and Yoro, I watched Lille a few times to see Yoro and I still think he is a bit raw; I definitely don't think we should expect him to start 40 games+ this year.

 

[croadyman]

De Ligt is the player I'd be most excited about. I love centre backs that play the way he does and show the leadership traits he has.

I am hoping we sign both De Ligt and Yoro, I watched Lille a few times to see Yoro and I still think he is a bit raw; I definitely don't think we should expect him to start 40 games+ this year.

Yeah I had hoped we would sign both but reliable sources suggest that's not the case unfortunately

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Would we be excited with an 18 yr old as our new CB signing? We need experience

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Is it madness to prefer we sign Yoro?

De Ligt for the fee reported seems a good deal. But I think Yoro would be a better long term PL CB.

But Yoro is a kid and we aren’t going to pin all our hopes on him. It’ll 2 out of the three we’ve been linked with. Braithwait looks the most clumsy and expensive of the three which is why I don’t get quite get that link.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would we be excited with an 18 yr old as our new CB signing? We need experience

One of our two and yes.

 

[RDCR07]

Would we be excited with an 18 yr old as our new CB signing? We need experience

I think it ll be wise to spend £100m on both De Ligt AND Yoro and sort out our CBs for the rest of this decade.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I think it ll be wise to spend £100m on both De Ligt AND Yoro and sort out our CBs for the rest of this decade.

We have not been set for a decade with any signing so i have no reason to believe this.

 

[didz]

Challenge for you. Name an 18 year old that has started as a main CB for a PL club in the last 10 seasons.

To be fair, I can only name one 5ft9 player that has started as a main CB for a PL club in the last 10 seasons. I'm not sure the club cares too much for conventional wisdoms, and with Licha we've had some reward for ignoring them.

Yoro did have some excellent games last season against some very good forwards and, while it would definitely be preferable to have him eased in alongside a vastly improved defensive cohort, I don't think it would be completely insane to have him starting on a regular basis.

 

[Sarni]

How old was Kobbie last season?

18 but I can think of many more 18/19-year old midfielders than defenders that have succeeded in the league, even in recent years. Besides Mainoo came into a team that had very little to play for in the league and had relatively low expectations, I would be hoping we will aim to challenge for top 5 next year and should expect to improve. This will make it ever harder for Yoro if he doesn’t hit the ground running.

We won’t even have great backups for him in case he struggles initially. It will be Maguire or Lindelof stepping in which is far from ideal.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

But Yoro is a kid and we aren’t going to pin all our hopes on him. It’ll 2 out of the three we’ve been linked with. Braithwait looks the most clumsy and expensive of the three which is why I don’t get quite get that link.

I agree. I can’t see us solely going for Yoro and there is still every chance he rejects our approach and goes to Madrid at which point De Ligt and Branthwaite becomes the more likely set up.

To be fair, I can only name one 5ft9 player that has started as a main CB for a PL club in the last 10 seasons. I'm not sure the club cares too much for conventional wisdoms, and with Licha we've had some reward for ignoring them.

Yoro did have some excellent games last season against some very good forwards and, while it would definitely be preferable to have him eased in alongside a vastly improved defensive cohort, I don't think it would be completely insane to have him starting on a regular basis.

I don’t think that’s at all relevant to the situation though?

Yoro is an excellent prospect and someone I’d love us to sign, every respectable scout report, article and someone I know from the industry believes he’s got a very high potential.

Onana
Dalot Yoro Martinez Shaw

That would worry me immensely if that was our preferred starting back 5 given the injury records of Shaw and Martinez. I think we need Yoro + a more experienced option.

How we sell that to Yoro is very tough and also how that is sold to Ten Hag too. I’m not sure it not being “completely insane” is a reason to do it.

 

[Isotope]

i'm quite surprised that Yoro seems to have taken preference over De Ligt. Yoro is very much focused on joining Madrid, but Madrid isn't really interested in matching our fee with Lille. It seems as if De Ligt and Yoro are both targets, but I thought you'd wrap up the one that is very happy to join first, and then try and tempt the hesitant one. Also, I don't see Yoro as a 30+ game starter for us the minute he hypothetically walks in the door. So the INEOS tactics on this one seem....interesting. We need both.

Maybe the worry is, if we sign De Ligt first, Yoro will panic at the thought of not starting games? Whereas right now we can make more "promises" to him in the negotiations?

all guesswork. But I hope we get De Ligt

If i were Yolo and his agent, I'd demand a guaranteed starter if moving to United this season. Otherwise, why wouldn't he just get games at Lille and move for free next season?

If I can think that way, i bet he and his agent would've thought that too.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

If i were Yolo and his agent, I'd demand a guaranteed starter if moving to United this season. Otherwise, why wouldn't he just get games at Lille and move for free next season?

If I can think that way, i bet he and his agent would've thought that too.

Or not necessarily demand a starting spot but you’d want a guarantee of significant game time in the PL and Europa league minimum.

Our attraction over Real is that we have the money to make the move now, have more of an opening at CB, and have recently had a very good record of sticking by “if you’re good enough you’re old enough”.

 

[Steve 007]

If i were Yolo and his agent, I'd demand a guaranteed starter if moving to United this season. Otherwise, why wouldn't he just get games at Lille and move for free next season?

If I can think that way, i bet he and his agent would've thought that too.

Is there really such thing as a guaranteed starter. He’s 18. He either wants to come or he doesn’t.

Personally I’d love both. Our little Argie looks like he could be a bit part player due to injuries.

 

[BuzzKillington]

Would we be excited with an 18 yr old as our new CB signing? We need experience

I wouldn’t be. The idea of some kid coming in and being a rock in our defence is a nice thought, but it’s just unrealistic. We need experience in some of our positions where we’re short. Buying wonderkids feels like something you do a little further down the line from where we are currently, or you buy them for positions where we are stacked with reasonable but not amazing options, like LW.

 

[Isotope]

Is there really such thing as a guaranteed starter. He’s 18. He either wants to come or he doesn’t.

Personally I’d love both. Our little Argie looks like he could be a bit part player due to injuries.

Of course there's such thing as guaranteed starter. We missed out on Haaland to Dortmund because Ole wouldn't guarantee him as starter.

 

[didz]

I don’t think that’s at all relevant to the situation though?

Yoro is an excellent prospect and someone I’d love us to sign, every respectable scout report, article and someone I know from the industry believes he’s got a very high potential.

Onana
Dalot Yoro Martinez Shaw

That would worry me immensely if that was our preferred starting back 5 given the injury records of Shaw and Martinez. I think we need Yoro + a more experienced option.

How we sell that to Yoro is very tough and also how that is sold to Ten Hag too. I’m not sure it not being “completely insane” is a reason to do it.

It's just meant as an example that just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it's a terrible idea.

Like I said, ideally we have a strong cohort of defenders, and recent experience tells us that there is plenty of game time to be shared around 3 or 4 good CBs, so I wouldn't be too worried about selling that to Yoro.

And on the defensive lineup you posted, wouldn't it be fair to still be worried if you swapped Yoro out for De Ligt? His injury record (while somewhat overblown) would add to the concerns over Martinez and Shaw's fitness. That's why we're all in agreement that one defensive addition wouldn't really be enough.

 

[doubleohseven]

Sign de Ligt over Yoro.

The latter does not want to play for us: he clearly wants Madrid. Fair play to his family trying to keep his options open but Real call the shots in these cases.

Sign de Ligt over Yoro.

 

[Scorpy]

Very disappointing if we sign Yoro and ditch the De Ligt deal.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

It's just meant as an example that just because something hasn't been done, doesn't mean it's a terrible idea.

Like I said, ideally we have a strong cohort of defenders, and recent experience tells us that there is plenty of game time to be shared around 3 or 4 good CBs, so I wouldn't be too worried about selling that to Yoro.

And on the defensive lineup you posted, wouldn't it be fair to still be worried if you swapped Yoro out for De Ligt? His injury record (while somewhat overblown) would add to the concerns over Martinez and Shaw's fitness. That's why we're all in agreement that one defensive addition wouldn't really be enough.

Well yes and no to the first paragraph. It doesn’t mean it’s a terrible idea but it’s also far more likely on balance to be a bad one than a good one if no club has ever really thought it was a good enough one to try?

Let’s say in the last 5 seasons there have been on average 2 main CBs per club (ignoring it will be slightly higher than this due to 3CB systems). That’s 20 x 2 x 5 so 200 opportunities for any club to decide to take a risk on an 18 year old as their main CB (or one of 2) and no club has taken it. I’d argue if in at least 200 possible slots no one has taken that gamble that it would be a bit stupid for a high pressure environment club like United to be the first.

I think he’ll get plenty of games but more likely as the third choice CB so I think we could all but guarantee him significant minutes without placing full onus on him being the guy.

As for De Ligt I agree with you there that his injury record isn’t ideal too so I’d want another CB (but I’ve said that before we were linked with either) so there are absolutely concerns there too. I just think:

De Ligt* Martinez
Maguire Lindelof
Evans

Is better and immediately more reassuring than:

Yoro Martinez
Maguire Lindelof
Evans

* replace De Ligt with any other option with greater experience

In a perfect world you’d have:
De Ligt* Martinez
Yoro Branthwaite
Evans

 

[lysglimt]

Very disappointing if we sign Yoro and ditch the De Ligt deal.

I hope we are waiting for the sales before signing a few more players - going into the season without Varane and Kambwala with only Yoro as a new CD (if we are lucky enough to get him) certainly doesn't strengthen us short-temr

 

[Igor Drefljak]

On one hand it’s concerning we’re potentially signing one CB and De Ligt is being strung along as a backup option to a guy whose preference isn’t us.

But on the other hand, Bayern want to buy Tah, can’t afford Tah and need to sell before hand.
Their asset is De Ligt, so we hold the advantage here.
We’ve been desperate for United to be run correctly, and this would be us bargaining.

Hopefully it’s the other hand that is going on right now.

 

[AlexUTD]

Very disappointing if we sign Yoro and ditch the De Ligt deal.

It might just be a negotiation tactic to scare Bayern if they want too much upfront of cash for De Ligt.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

We’ll sign de Ligt and Real Madrid will sign Yoro.

 

[Adamsk7]

We’ll sign de Ligt and Real Madrid will sign Yoro.

I think we’re going for both. It’s clear we’re looking at De Ligt, Yoro and Branthwaite. I don’t think we go after all three if we only want one

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Would rather De Ligt over Yoro anyway, Ten Hag has proven to work well with him and he's more of a finished article while not only having 2 years left of his career so is probably more appropriate for what we currently need.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Would rather De Ligt over Yoro anyway, Ten Hag has proven to work well with him and he's more of a finished article while not only having 2 years left of his career so is probably more appropriate for what we currently need.

Yeah we need a starting CB more than a yong and learnin one.

 

[didz]

Well yes and no to the first paragraph. It doesn’t mean it’s a terrible idea but it’s also far more likely on balance to be a bad one than a good one if no club has ever really thought it was a good enough one to try?

Let’s say in the last 5 seasons there have been on average 2 main CBs per club (ignoring it will be slightly higher than this due to 3CB systems). That’s 20 x 2 x 5 so 200 opportunities for any club to decide to take a risk on an 18 year old as their main CB (or one of 2) and no club has taken it. I’d argue if in at least 200 possible slots no one has taken that gamble that it would be a bit stupid for a high pressure environment club like United to be the first.

I appreciate the statistical approach, but it presupposes that every club has had the option of playing a really, really good teenage centre back, which isn't the case. Arguably, the only clubs that had the chance to do so over the last 5 seasons were Arsenal and Everton, and neither Saliba nor Branthwaite were nearly as good as Yoro as teenagers.

I'll certainly accept it would be a gamble, maybe even a little bit silly, but once again, that's why we're all in agreement that just the one defender wouldn't be enough.

I largely agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think it's a crazy thing to prefer Yoro over De Ligt in the (hopefully unlikely) event that we only sign one defender. Short term pain for long term gain and all that.

As an aside, an argument could be made that Yoro and De Ligt is an either/or and we're still targeting another centre half. Both players prefer to anchor the defence and do most of their work in the width of the six-yard box. Aside from the obvious of being left-footed, where Branthwaite differs is that he's happy to do a lot of defending in his channel, so we might turn our attention to a defender more closely aligned to that skillset, along with Yoro/De Ligt.

I'm not entirely convinced by that argument myself, but it might be worth thinking about. It's probably more likely that Ornstein's "expectation" that it's an either/or changes according to who we can sell.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

Yeah we need a starting CB more than a yong and learnin one.

I'd love to be in a position where we can afford to take a chance on a Yoro but reality says we need a more stable XI, squad rather than risking on more youngsters (Which while we all love a wonderkid) we do have quite a young/ inexperienced nucleus and a few players who have that experience would be crucial

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I appreciate the statistical approach, but it presupposes that every club has had the option of playing a really, really good teenage centre back, which isn't the case. Arguably, the only clubs that had the chance to do so over the last 5 seasons were Arsenal and Everton, and neither Saliba nor Branthwaite were nearly as good as Yoro as teenagers.

I'll certainly accept it would be a gamble, maybe even a little bit silly, but once again, that's why we're all in agreement that just the one defender wouldn't be enough.

I largely agree with the rest of your post, but I don't think it's a crazy thing to prefer Yoro over De Ligt in the (hopefully unlikely) event that we only sign one defender. Short term pain for long term gain and all that.

As an aside, an argument could be made that Yoro and De Ligt is an either/or and we're still targeting another centre half. Both players prefer to anchor the defence and do most of their work in the width of the six-yard box. Aside from the obvious of being left-footed, where Branthwaite differs is that he's happy to do a lot of defending in his channel, so we might turn our attention to a defender more closely aligned to that skillset, along with Yoro/De Ligt.

I'm not entirely convinced by that argument myself, but it might be worth thinking about. It's probably more likely that Ornstein's "expectation" that it's an either/or changes according to who we can sell.

But isn’t this part of the point? It’s incredibly unlikely that there exists an 18 year old CB that any club could develop or buy that is good enough to start for them. Especially in such a physically demanding league. You tend to need a fully developed man’s body. Yoro would have to be probably the best 18 year old in the last 5 years to stand a chance.

I think the fact no club has risked it suggests we also won’t be the first to do so. I don’t think anyone in INEOS could with a straight face say that a starting XI that has gone from Varane to Yoro has been strengthened and given we already have Højlund, Mainoo and Garnacho we have enough youth in our first XI for now.

I also would prefer to sign Yoro over De Ligt if it’s a choice. But I think we’d then see more of Maguire if Yoro was the sole signing.

I’ll always go with the best available information until something changes so I think it’s sensible to assume it’s one of Yoro or De Ligt and maybe a different left sided CB?

 

[The holy trinity 68]

De Ligt is signed for now. Yoro would be for the future, not now. Probably 2 - 3 years before he is fully ready.

 

[11101]

Looking forward to this. He was the next big thing and had the pick of European clubs to choose from, think everybody scratched their heads when he chose Juve. Unsurprisingly was the wrong move but he's still only 24. Plenty of time to get back on track.

 

[didz]

But isn’t this part of the point? It’s incredibly unlikely that there exists an 18 year old CB that any club could develop or buy that is good enough to start for them. Especially in such a physically demanding league. You tend to need a fully developed man’s body. Yoro would have to be probably the best 18 year old in the last 5 years to stand a chance.

I think the fact no club has risked it suggests we also won’t be the first to do so. I don’t think anyone in INEOS could with a straight face say that a starting XI that has gone from Varane to Yoro has been strengthened and given we already have Højlund, Mainoo and Garnacho we have enough youth in our first XI for now.

I also would prefer to sign Yoro over De Ligt if it’s a choice. But I think we’d then see more of Maguire if Yoro was the sole signing.

I’ll always go with the best available information until something changes so I think it’s sensible to assume it’s one of Yoro or De Ligt and maybe a different left sided CB?

I'd say that's all fair.

On the LCB, the only other one mentioned by reliable sources so far has been Hancko, with accompanying concerns over price. I don't think he's ever played as a right-sider (unlike Branthwaite), so I wonder how much better the defensive options really look if we got him and Yoro.

In that scenario, it's still Yoro and Maguire rotating in the RCB position, no? I suppose it would alleviate our overdependence on Shaw&Licha's fitness, so maybe it would actually be a considerable improvement overall.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I'd say that's all fair.

On the LCB, the only other one mentioned by reliable sources so far has been Hancko, with accompanying concerns over price. I don't think he's ever played as a right-sider (unlike Branthwaite), so I wonder how much better the defensive options really look if we got him and Yoro.

In that scenario, it's still Yoro and Maguire rotating in the RCB position, no? I suppose it would alleviate our overdependence on Shaw&Licha's fitness, so maybe it would actually be a considerable improvement overall.

I’d take even Yoro and Hancko as a net benefit given Hancko’s outstanding ball progression in defence. I think if we look at this in terms of profiles we want, we need physical duellers and ball progression.

If you can get both then you’re very happy but usually you have to compromise a bit on one for the other. Hancko and Yoro would be a good balance and adding good depth. De Ligt and Branthwaite would too.